Outhealed by a DK in ToT?

100 Tauren Druid
10770
NO. Not with a Holy Pally in the group.

Seriously, one week I dropped 29k hps on jin rokh. Because the Holy pally likes to epeen all over the meters.


If our Holy Pally was the cause of our Resto Shaman's low numbers, why were my numbers not affected similarly?

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/18qor8exc5635rvc/sum/healingDone/?s=2916&e=3242
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100 Tauren Druid
10770
Or how about Tsulong? A fight that consists of pumping as many heals as you can into a boss with a massive health pool, should produce some pretty high numbers right? No one is sniping anyone else's heals on Tsulong using absorbs, that's for sure.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/dd5glw4dvqw95ai1/sum/healingDone/?s=7711&e=8176
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
His numbers are wonky. Why is less than 50% of his healing on Tsulong?
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100 Tauren Druid
9040
Or how about Tsulong? A fight that consists of pumping as many heals as you can into a boss with a massive health pool, should produce some pretty high numbers right? No one is sniping anyone else's heals on Tsulong using absorbs, that's for sure.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/dd5glw4dvqw95ai1/sum/healingDone/?s=7711&e=8176


I never said the shaman was fine or anything. I merely pointed out that vs a Holy pally and with jinrokh mechanics...if the holy pally is trying to flex his muscles, every other healer will look very bad.

And Tsulong is a terrible example. I have serious doubts that anyone can even come close to competing with a resto druid on that fight anymore. (I did not read your log, this is just a general opinion) Entirely due to cheese mechanics with the mushrooms bloom buff from 5.2

Jumped into Tsulong a few weeks back to help out an old friends guild and did 90k hps.

That is, until tsulongs breath hit me and did shrooms; 194k hps the rest of the fight. Cheese.

Edit;

Ok, I looked at your logs. Jin rokh and tsulong)

2 things I can say;

Either you are rejuv spamming and they're monitoring them and letting your hots do their job (few healers do this and if they are, good for them)
Or, your Holy pally is very very bad and your shaman is pretty bad too.

I have to go out so I don't even have time to look at your shaman, but from the looks of it, he needs to do everything better and more. Could be a spirit problem, but given the way I know shamans to gear, spirit shouldnt be an issue?

As for the Holy Pally. Red flags and alarm bells need to go off immediately when you do not see Illuminated healing as their #1 by a long shot, and I don't even see EF in his top 6. Those are the two things he should be cheesing his way to the top of your healing meters.
Edited by Tonydanza on 5/13/2013 4:14 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
13130

Your resto shaman is just bad. Replace him. Someone said he was 'afk' but no, he's just bad. With a 93% up-time, he should easily be able to do over 60k hps on Jin'rokh.


NO. Not with a Holy Pally in the group.

Seriously, one week I dropped 29k hps on jin rokh. Because the Holy pally likes to epeen all over the meters.

He did 140k, in equal gear to me. No, I'm not making that garbage up. IF a Holy Pally *WANTS* to obliterate you on this fight, he can and will. Every time. Will even crush a disc priest here with an easy 50% IH abuse.


While that may occur in your raid, it is not happening in the logs posted here. The paladin is suppressing absolutely nothing. His output is quite low, and honestly pretty bad. If the paladin in the logs of the OP were suppressing people then the druid would also be lower/below him and the druid is consistently out healing him.

The shaman, and the paladin based on the logs here are either - terrible, or phoning it in. The fact the paladin is gearing heavily for haste at the expense of mastery is torpedoing his absorbs, and his spell selection is terrible.

Edit: Just saw your edited comment on the post above, and just realized the druid posting above is the one from the logs. Weeee for observational skills.
Edited by Necai on 5/13/2013 4:18 PM PDT
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100 Pandaren Monk
10640
My guild 2 heal (me and shammy / Druid and Shammy ) the fight from TOT 1st Boss until 3rd boss. Don need 3 heal. Just make sure all dps do the job of interrupt in Horridon trash at the 4 gates, avoid fire, tanks and healers use CDs at correct time. My guild tanks are monk and DK. DK din outheal we 2 healers. In fact, our HPS r much much higher than DK self heal.
Edited by Xiongxiong on 5/13/2013 6:51 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
12580


NO. Not with a Holy Pally in the group.

Seriously, one week I dropped 29k hps on jin rokh. Because the Holy pally likes to epeen all over the meters.

He did 140k, in equal gear to me. No, I'm not making that garbage up. IF a Holy Pally *WANTS* to obliterate you on this fight, he can and will. Every time. Will even crush a disc priest here with an easy 50% IH abuse.


While that may occur in your raid, it is not happening in the logs posted here. The paladin is suppressing absolutely nothing. His output is quite low, and honestly pretty bad. If the paladin in the logs of the OP were suppressing people then the druid would also be lower/below him and the druid is consistently out healing him.

The shaman, and the paladin based on the logs here are either - terrible, or phoning it in. The fact the paladin is gearing heavily for haste at the expense of mastery is torpedoing his absorbs, and his spell selection is terrible.



Exactly this. The holy paladin is this raid I didn't even feel needed commented upon, because any paladin worth anything will do better than that. But the two healers together are seriously gimping the raid in the logs posted.

Also, haste vs mastery for a holy paladin---haste over mastery won't torpedo your absorbs. I just switched to haste over mastery because I hit another EF breakpoint by doing so (I'm experimenting though and I may go back to mastery) and my top healing done is *still* Illuminated Healing and my absorbs haven't diminished noticeably.

The problems with your paladin start with the fact that he's using Sacred Shield over Eternal Flame in a heavy damage fight. Eternal Flame is by far superior in a 10man raid on a fight like Jin'rokh. He's using Holy Prism over Light's Hammer, which is a terrible decision for Jin'rokh. With so much aoe damage, Light's Hammer is much better.

That Light of Dawn is *above* Illuminated Healing *and* Beacon of Light is very alarming. Illuminated Healing should *always* be the top spell. Rather than keep explaining the bad spell choice (which is wrought with problems), here's a link to the effective healing I did on the last Jin'rokh I healed (a couple weeks back, as other healers need gear more). http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/nd8mkupz8divaqvm/details/0/?s=106&e=339

Also, to the person saying holy paladins *gimp* other healers... if that's true, why is the resto druid neck and neck with me in heals???
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100 Tauren Druid
10770
Our main tank is on vacation, so our Holy Pally is filling in (her 2nd spec is Tank) and we are healing with a 2nd resto druid instead.

It didn't seem to have changed much on our Horridon attempts.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vblk24dj7sbv4ln7/sum/healingDone/

It feels like we're getting a bit further on most attempts now, but obviously not enough.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13170
Things I noticed on your other druid's armory: has 2k haste and is way under the haste breakpoint (although I hope that's due to the fact that they have an agility weapon equipped O_o), glyphs are also a little odd, and their uptime on harmony was only 46% and 66% on the longest attempt @_@

I looked at my guild's logs for this fight (we 3 heal as 2 disc priests and a druid, I heal on a disc for raids) and all of us are a few percentages within one another.
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90 Troll Druid
11195
I'm wondering why you're 3 healing? You make the fight drag on and more difficult by doing that. There isn't really any damage going on that requires 3 heals. Having one extra DPS on the final phase is huge.

Anyways your longest attempt the tank got smashed. You guys need to save some major CDs for that and spam the tank with big heals. Have ironbark for him there. Pop incarnation for instant regrowths etc. Make sure the pally is saving his cds too not used on trash packs.
Edited by Moofiosa on 5/29/2013 11:22 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
9040
Well at least now you can analyze the other druid's performance yourself! Should be easier to give him advice to improve, especially since you are now quite familiar with the fight from your raid's PoV.

Also, on your longest attempt your shaman never used healing tide. I would strongly recommend using HTT on the 3rd door after deadly plague and mortal strike are in full effect. Judging from your comp you will probably fall somewhat behind on plague dispels, and your group took a considerable amount of damage from frozen orbs too, so all in all that door is looking pretty hectic for you. Also it's a good idea to roll cd's on the add tank with mortal strike. You have 2 ironbarks, which will help considerably.

Edit: almost finished the post and got distracted...Moofiosa is on point about the tank cd's though
Edited by Mythrose on 5/29/2013 11:34 AM PDT
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100 Draenei Shaman
18970
87955784511:
Looking at those logs my best guess is that the shaman is literally going afk during attempts.


^.

Are you sure you need 3 healers for Horridon? A Holy Paladin + Resto Druid combo has debuff dispels covered.

Edit: I looked at your most recent logs. Your co-healers are just going afk for the fights or don't know how to play their class. You are demolishing them both. What's the fastest answer? Find one new co-healer, and just use two for Horridon. Add a dps.

That's obviously easier said than put into practice. But this guy is going to need a lot of investment.

So for more practical recommendations: Your shaman needs to unglyph riptide, and then start using it. Do not pull Horridon again until he does.

On your 7:09 pull he cast it 20 times. He's using it on average once per 21 seconds. Why on earth would you glyph it to remove the cd, remove ~35%ish(?) of its healing only to never cast it? It's a foolish choice.

His Healing Stream Totem uptime is also equally poor. On that same 7:09 pull, he cast Healing Stream Totem 6 times. It has a 30 second cooldown, so it can be cast twice per minute. For 4 minutes it wasn't down.

Even if he doesn't THINK there's anything to heal with it, he should drop it anyway.
Edited by Jooki on 5/29/2013 3:43 PM PDT
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100 Tauren Druid
10770
Thanks everyone, I appreciate the advice.

We had another rough night on Horridon. Our guild is becoming extremely demoralized :(

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/uybor6l0c941q6ly/sum/healingDone/

DK was #2 on heals again heh

Our guild is heavy on healers so it would be rough going down to 2 heals. This raid group actually already has 3 healers besides me (Knottybits, Tkenga, Tupelo), but they have me filling in healing because the pally healer is filling in for the tank. I usually raid with a different group which is on hiatus right now. Next week is the last week that I have a scheduled spot in the raid so I hope we can down Horridon next week.
Edited by Gotnorice on 5/29/2013 9:09 PM PDT
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100 Tauren Druid
9040
If your tank is healing more than a dedicated healer it means you have too many healers. Period. Plain and simple. It has absolutely nothing to do with that healers skill level.

I was outhealed by our DK tank last week on Horridon, but my guild outright refuses to 2heal and we have a Disc priest and a Holy Pally. Does that mean I'm bad? No, because there's very little damage during this entire fight. All of the damage on this encounter is dominated by absorbs. I outheal the other 2 healers the entire second half of ToT, when theres actual raid damage. This fight stinks. 2 heal it. It's 100% about dps and how fast those adds are down.

AND, if you're not downing the boss + the above sentence, well...if you don't drop down to 2 heals, nothing will save you. Except maybe 5.4 when ToT is nerfed into the ground.
Edited by Tonydanza on 5/29/2013 9:16 PM PDT
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
Looking through the deaths, there is a lot of improvement that needs to happen. The hps numbers being put out are adequate to complete the fight IF people aren't failing at mechanics. The problem is widespread failing at mechanics. Over the attempts logged, 124 venom bolt volleys landed which means the dps isn't properly interrupting them (that would be at least 11-12 casts when at most 5 attempts lasted to the second door). About 16% of the damage Horridon did was double swipe-how hard is it to gtfo when you see the clouds of dirt gathering? Blazing sunlight either put people in position to die or killed them regularly-are healers not cleansing or healing those with the dot when the cleanse is on cd? Sand traps killing people, etc, etc.

Fix the mechanic failures then maybe start worrying about hps numbers or the fact that your DK happens to be a self-healing beast on a fight where mostly only the tanks take damage (when done properly).
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90 Troll Druid
10395
I went heavy spirit all the way until Lei Shen, even with pretty decent gear from a good set of drops / valor. Our other 2 healers are a Disc Priest and Holy Paladin who seemed like they could heal for days, but keeping up always seemed to drain my mana. 13k spirit is a lot, but I don't think it's a bad thing personally.


Honestly it seems like overkill to me. I currently have ~9.5k spirit and have cleared up to jikun without having mana issues. Granted I have the legendary meta, but even before that I had 10k and it was plenty.

Edited: Smart phone is not so smart
Edited by Trolljin on 5/31/2013 7:01 PM PDT
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