Protection Warrior Secondary Stat Scaling

100 Pandaren Warrior
16360
05/10/2013 08:58 PMPosted by Nerfheals
Or at very least that pony you promised so long ago...


GC promised me a moose.


last time I checked this was us.battle.net not maplesyrup.battle.net
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100 Pandaren Monk
9385
Death Knights gain a tiny bit of mitigation from haste, nothing from crit, and very small amounts from hit, with even less from expertise.

Warriors gain nothing from haste or crit, lots from hit/expertise, and a bonus from avoidance.

Doesn't sound too bad comparatively.
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90 Troll Hunter
15125
Death Knights gain a tiny bit of mitigation from haste, nothing from crit, and very small amounts from hit, with even less from expertise.

Warriors gain nothing from haste or crit, lots from hit/expertise, and a bonus from avoidance.

Doesn't sound too bad comparatively.


Death Knights not gaining anything from hit/expertise is better, not worse. They don't need to go into hit/expertise because they get their absorb shield regardless, therefore putting it into other stats.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
You make a big deal about haste for druids. Hastelol

It's not like it's incredibly good or anything (it is).

You mentioned it multiple times. Crit is a hell of a lot better than haste.
........

No it's not.
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100 Human Warrior
15520
05/10/2013 08:58 PMPosted by Nerfheals
Or at very least that pony you promised so long ago...


GC promised me a moose.


PONIES OR NOTHING HERETIC
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100 Night Elf Druid
14700
Well they went out of their way to make sure Druid/Monk benefit from DPS stats because we wear DPS gear - it doesn't really make much sense to compare Druid to Warrior.

Go ahead and compare Pally/Warrior/DK though.
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100 Night Elf Druid
6355
Zero would be the benefit druids get from parry. Fortunately we never get stuck with parry on our gear.

Also, I don't think you should dismiss mastery quite so easily; all tanks get *some* benefit from mastery but they don't all get *equal* benefit from mastery. My understanding is that warriors and DKs have a pretty strong mastery, while druid mastery is kind of weak (or maybe it's just overshadowed by the resource benefits of crit/haste).
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100 Orc Warrior
13725
remember warriors take skill to play while the rest of wow pushes 1 button and acts like they are the greatest
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100 Pandaren Monk
9385
Death Knights gain a tiny bit of mitigation from haste, nothing from crit, and very small amounts from hit, with even less from expertise.

Warriors gain nothing from haste or crit, lots from hit/expertise, and a bonus from avoidance.

Doesn't sound too bad comparatively.


Death Knights not gaining anything from hit/expertise is better, not worse. They don't need to go into hit/expertise because they get their absorb shield regardless, therefore putting it into other stats.


Uhh no. It just means hit and expertise are worthless when they're on gear.
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100 Human Warrior
15520
remember warriors take skill to play while the rest of wow pushes 1 button and acts like they are the greatest


el oh el
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100 Worgen Druid
14575
Also, I don't think you should dismiss mastery quite so easily; all tanks get *some* benefit from mastery but they don't all get *equal* benefit from mastery. My understanding is that warriors and DKs have a pretty strong mastery, while druid mastery is kind of weak (or maybe it's just overshadowed by the resource benefits of crit/haste).


This is more or less the point I am trying to get across, it has become very lackluster and gives a feel of Warriors missing out of the ability to go outside the cookie cutter


I think he's passing over mastery because it's a cookie-cutter tank stat, like from Cata, if I'm not mistaken.

Issue: RNG Primordius fight. Prot pally picks up some stacks of the buffs to help mitigation. Grabs (completely at random without knowledge, if you recall) 3x Crit and 1x Haste. The Prot warrior picks up the same ones. Warrior gets nothing, pally does. How droll and not useful.
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100 Pandaren Warrior
16360
I'd love 3 crit buffs. Speak for yourself.
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100 Human Warrior
15520
I'd love 3 crit buffs. Speak for yourself.


Still aren't ranking :D
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100 Human Warrior
24555
I am not overlooking Mastery, or the fact that Mastery is better for some tanks than others.
I am looking at the fact that Haste and/or Crit have zero benefit for Warriors while having non-zero benefits for every other tank class.

No matter how minimal, it is still higher than 0.

That was why, for example, I proposed a damage done scaling of Shield Barrier instead of a Vengeance scaling. To atleast give viability to stats that will increase damage over just going for Mastery and Stamina (i.e. boring and lackluster)

I still raid and play my warrior at a high level, it's not like I'm looking for reassurance that my class is viable, I'm just looking for enough reason to believe a non-zero benefit is validated compared to other tanks.
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100 Pandaren Warrior
16360
Crit has a non zero value to us for DPS.
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100 Human Warrior
24555
Crit has a non zero value to us for DPS.


Secondary stats such as crit and haste (I leave out hit, expertise and mastery due to them being pretty much standard for all 5 tanking classes) are completely wasted mitigation-wise on Warriors and Warriors alone.

Every other tank gains benefit through more survivability from these stats while warriors remain left in the background.


Original Post, I may as well have written it in Swahili
Edited by Mass on 5/11/2013 3:31 PM PDT
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100 Pandaren Warrior
16360
I get that but you keep washing back and forth on DPS vs Both.

Also I dont think anyone else has a non zero dps gain from avoidance except paladins, so theres that.
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91 Tauren Warrior
0
Also, I don't think you should dismiss mastery quite so easily; all tanks get *some* benefit from mastery but they don't all get *equal* benefit from mastery. My understanding is that warriors and DKs have a pretty strong mastery, while druid mastery is kind of weak (or maybe it's just overshadowed by the resource benefits of crit/haste).


This is the point I was going to make. I'd like to see some generic calculations on how we scale versus the other tanks before I would really form an opinion. But our mastery scales linearly, and theoretically we cap out at 60% block instead of 30%, and while we can't keep SB up 100% of the time, we can do it close enough that the seconds in between shouldn't be all that significant. And if we were to get to that point, we would just start dumping stats into avoidance.

We'll never get the itemization to do that, but the point is that I don't think our scaling is all that bad, although seeing relevant numbers would be better.
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90 Troll Hunter
15125


Death Knights not gaining anything from hit/expertise is better, not worse. They don't need to go into hit/expertise because they get their absorb shield regardless, therefore putting it into other stats.


Uhh no. It just means hit and expertise are worthless when they're on gear.


Welcome to reforging, introduced forever ago.
DKs used to get the same benefit from hit/expertise warriors did until Blizzard buffed DKs to not need to land the DS to get Blood Shield. Now they get the max benefit they would have if they were hit/exp cap, without needing to get hit/exp cap, allowing them to reforge those stats into something more beneficial.
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100 Human Warrior
24555

This is the point I was going to make. I'd like to see some generic calculations on how we scale versus the other tanks before I would really form an opinion. But our mastery scales linearly, and theoretically we cap out at 60% block instead of 30%, and while we can't keep SB up 100% of the time, we can do it close enough that the seconds in between shouldn't be all that significant. And if we were to get to that point, we would just start dumping stats into avoidance.

We'll never get the itemization to do that, but the point is that I don't think our scaling is all that bad, although seeing relevant numbers would be better.


This is my point though, that is our only option, maybe I'm beating a dead horse here but it bugs me at our lack of uniqueness as a tank. Monks can stack crit or mastery, Paladins can stack haste or mastery, Druids can stack crit or haste or mastery, DK's and Warriors are stuck stacking Mastery and defaulting back to avoidance after that. (I am leaving out Stamina due to it being universal and always an option for any tank, for better or worse)

I am NOT arguing that we are not viable. I just can't imagine I am the only one who feels like the class has just become a boring unattractive option when comparing it to the other tanking classes. I play them all, and I definitely feel warriors (and DKs) are stuck in the past.
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