Protection Warrior Secondary Stat Scaling

90 Tauren Warrior
6680
Here's an idea, what if shield slam scaled with shield armor kind of like the d2 paladin smite. That out to help scaling at the top end a bit I would think.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
16005
Here's an idea, what if shield slam scaled with shield armor kind of like the d2 paladin smite. That out to help scaling at the top end a bit I would think.


Shield Slam scaling is fine. What's not so fine is Ultimatum. I recently realized after looking at a few logs and checking to see how scrubby I am at using the procs. What I found is that I used more Heroic Strikes than I had procs (which is also bad). Despite my over-use of HS, its still only amounted to 2.5% of my total damage. This is also an ability that also serves no defensive function at all.

I think in theory something like Ultimatum should help differentiate DPS ability amongst Prot Warriors but as it is you could probably ignore it with little consequence.

Prot Warrior DPS could use some fine tuning. Despite having gained 60 item levels since the expansion's start, two of my core stats are essentially unchanged. Its does allow more room for Mastery and Stam at least but only the former scales (barely). Still DK's seem to ignore DPS stats (except Hit) and still do pretty solid damage so maybe its not the stats but the skill bonuses.

Its kinda tempting to ignore Stam in favour of crit (or haste w/capacitance gem) with some creative gemming/enchanting. I'm only a bad normal mode tank so no one would probably notice the difference. I guess that's a kind of DPS scaling.
Edited by Ivanstone on 5/25/2013 11:57 AM PDT
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14 Night Elf Druid
50
Ultimatum was never introduced for "defensive function," it was added later in beta because the Prot Warrior rotation was boring as a pile of bricks. You can pretty much ignore procs with practically no DPS loss since HS hits like a single wet noodle but still.

Also, Mastery scaling is incredibly good and per-point Stamina goes further on Warriors than any other tank (except Monks) because of our baseline 25% DR to all damage taken. So when you're complaining about scaling.... ha, no.
Edited by Kangarooster on 5/25/2013 12:42 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Warrior
16005

Also, Mastery scaling is incredibly good and per-point Stamina goes further on Warriors than any other tank (except Monks) because of our baseline 25% DR to all damage taken. So when you're complaining about scaling.... ha, no.


I was referring to its DPS component. I have little issue with Warrior defensive abilities.
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90 Gnome Warrior
11655
05/25/2013 08:34 AMPosted by Xchi
. And from a personal standpoint, this expansion is the first time since Day 1 Vanilla where I found my protection warrior to be... boring. I really hate saying it but the Monk, disregarding all DPS gains, is infinitely more rewarding to play right now.


Honestly this mentality is what ruined dps for me. DPS/Tanks don't need some ridiculously complicated dps rotation in order to not be boring. At least in my personal opinion I'd rather be watching fight mechanics than my action bars.
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90 Human Warrior
12850
05/26/2013 11:22 AMPosted by Tvpuppetpal
. And from a personal standpoint, this expansion is the first time since Day 1 Vanilla where I found my protection warrior to be... boring. I really hate saying it but the Monk, disregarding all DPS gains, is infinitely more rewarding to play right now.


Honestly this mentality is what ruined dps for me. DPS/Tanks don't need some ridiculously complicated dps rotation in order to not be boring. At least in my personal opinion I'd rather be watching fight mechanics than my action bars.


You can't fight the nostalgia.

Putting a brick on Shield Block and making you hit Heroic Strike for every weapon swing was "unique and exciting gameplay" to a lot of people.
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90 Draenei Paladin
14990
05/26/2013 11:22 AMPosted by Tvpuppetpal
. And from a personal standpoint, this expansion is the first time since Day 1 Vanilla where I found my protection warrior to be... boring. I really hate saying it but the Monk, disregarding all DPS gains, is infinitely more rewarding to play right now.


Honestly this mentality is what ruined dps for me. DPS/Tanks don't need some ridiculously complicated dps rotation in order to not be boring. At least in my personal opinion I'd rather be watching fight mechanics than my action bars.


If you think your rotation is complicated you dont know it well enough. Some guild app form I read once said best, If you cant explain it simply you probably dont know it that well

If you're starting at your action bars you need a better UI.
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90 Troll Druid
17280
Mastery scales exponentially with Shield Block. So no, Warrior scaling is more than fine.

And Warrior damage isn't even significantly behind other tanks (see: H Tortos ranks). Most Prot Wars just play like crap.


Prot war dps is !@#$, tortos isnt a good exemple, look at overall data for each tank for the top 100 of each:

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000011111000000
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90 Gnome Warrior
11655
If you think your rotation is complicated you dont know it well enough. Some guild app form I read once said best, If you cant explain it simply you probably dont know it that well

If you're starting at your action bars you need a better UI.


Having my main be a hunter at the start of this expansion I may be quite bias. Having to keep track of long cds, short cds, keeping track of resources, and always casting something in order to do optimal dps is not my idea of an enjoyable raiding experience. At least not when there is a thousand fight mechanics you have to pay attention to. That is clearly not an issue of UI.

Then again you can't post anything on the battlenet forums without expecting at least 3 people flame you for being bad.
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90 Draenei Paladin
14990
Having to keep track of long cds, short cds, keeping track of resources


That is clearly not an issue of UI.


That is clearly a UI problem.

Also I hope you at least mean fury. Because you can play prot with your eyes closed and all youd miss is ultimatum
Edited by Wagglition on 5/27/2013 2:37 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
05/26/2013 04:11 PMPosted by Dreyen
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000011111000000

Oh come on. You know better than to use "overall dps" on raidbots as a measurement of anything even remotely close to resembling relevant.
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90 Worgen Warrior
9535
Prot war dps is !@#$, tortos isnt a good exemple, look at overall data for each tank for the top 100 of each:

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000011111000000


I am NEVER have a problem keeping up in the damage department unless I dont have any vengeance. But on multi add fights, so far only monks and bears give me any difficulty in catching up with. Monks more so if they know how to use their aoe. Even then, I still pull close enough to grab some aggro off at least a few of them. What is different is my huge instant threat. But damage wise, I dont really seem to have a problem.
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14 Night Elf Druid
50
05/27/2013 01:34 PMPosted by Tvpuppetpal
Having to keep track of long cds, short cds, keeping track of resources, and always casting something in order to do optimal dps is not my idea of an enjoyable raiding experience.
Hurr, what? All the tank rotations are painfully simple, and Prot Warrior is basically boiled down to like 3 buttons for the most part.
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90 Worgen Warrior
9535
Hurr, what? All the tank rotations are painfully simple, and Prot Warrior is basically boiled down to like 3 buttons for the most part.


Hey now, its 4 buttons (SS, Rev, Dev and SBar/SB) And I throw in all sorts of cool stuff just cause I can. Like shattering throw for a 20% armor debuff during hero. And banners, who doesnt love banners? And I'm not even talking about the Bruce variety which we have when we pop Avatar. And theirs heroic leap and charge. For a little flourish you can macro /roar to your shouts. The only change I want is , I want to be able to use a 2 hander for tanking. Fury can use a 2 hander in one hand and only warriors can do that, why not. Armaggedon and Never Ending winter, thats just sick. And obnoxious. Which is good for tanking.
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90 Gnome Warrior
11655
05/27/2013 04:11 PMPosted by Kangarooster
Having to keep track of long cds, short cds, keeping track of resources, and always casting something in order to do optimal dps is not my idea of an enjoyable raiding experience.
Hurr, what? All the tank rotations are painfully simple, and Prot Warrior is basically boiled down to like 3 buttons for the most part.


Having my main be a >>>HUNTER<<< at the start of this expansion I may be quite bias. Having to keep track of long cds, short cds, keeping track of resources, and always casting something in order to do optimal dps is not my idea of an enjoyable raiding experience. At least not when there is a thousand fight mechanics you have to pay attention to. That is clearly not an issue of UI.

Then again you can't post anything on the battlenet forums without expecting at least 3 people flame you for being bad.


bolded for emphisis

anyway this comment thread is completely irrelevant to the OP
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90 Orc Warrior
12435
Mastery scales exponentially with Shield Block. So no, Warrior scaling is more than fine.

And Warrior damage isn't even significantly behind other tanks (see: H Tortos ranks). Most Prot Wars just play like crap.


Wrong. Warrior tanks are so far behind when it comes to damage that we get sat for the really hard stuff. Go count the number of 10 mans in the top 50 that use a warrior tank.
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90 Human Warrior
13190
Early on in MoP beta Protection Warriors generated rage through auto attacks. For some reason the devs shifted it all to our special attacks.

It's a little annoying that Bloodlust does nothing for me.
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90 Draenei Paladin
14990
89191893236:
It's a little annoying that Bloodlust does nothing for me.


To be fair it never has
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90 Human Warrior
12850
89192293129:
89191893236:
It's a little annoying that Bloodlust does nothing for me.


To be fair it never has


Actually, if you think about it it's increased our DPS, very marginally, but it's done that. At least back when we were still queuing up Heroic Strikes for each white attack anyway >_>;

Either that or I'm imagining things. But Bloodlust hasn't really done much for Warrior tanks at the absolute latest since Cataclysm.
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90 Human Warlock
17000
89191893236:
Early on in MoP beta Protection Warriors generated rage through auto attacks. For some reason the devs shifted it all to our special attacks.

To make pressing your buttons properly contribute more to your defense, iirc. I think the issue was something about the difference between Warriors who reacted well to SnB and Revenge was pretty minor compared to Warriors who were terrible at reacting.
Edited by Serinicas on 5/28/2013 5:15 PM PDT
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