Yogg-Saron and the Scourge?

90 Gnome Warlock
7115
It always struck me as strange, as how the Scourge could survive, almost right beside the prison of Yogg-Saron and have no open conflict with the Old One's minions.

We're talking about the Scourge here, and the Old Ones, not exactly allies. It would seem that when the Alliance and Horde were reached Northrend, that in the north of the continent there should have been a huge massive open war between the Old One and the Lich King.

Sure I think some could say "well Yogg-Saron was clearly manipulating the Lich King" but the Lich King himself seemed to show no sign of "madness" in fact the Lich King was just as cunning and brutal, everytime you saw him he seemed to act on his own will, unlike Loken who was clearly going crazy.

It would be interesting for lore too, I mean what better way to take care of both Yogg-Saron and the Lich King, than for the Alliance and Horde to stay back and let them slug it out, while the Alliance and Horde dealt with the Blue Dragonflight?

It always seemed like an untapped source of lots of drama in Northrend for the Lich King to not be fighting Yogg-Saron's forces.
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90 Undead Warlock
11105
Yogg Saron didn't really care about the Lich King. He knew what was going on, and perhaps was even planning on taking him down eventually (he had seen what happened with bolvar after all), but it wasn't on his list of priorities. Likewise, the Scourge was in the same position. They would've been in a worse position than with the nerubians. The Scourge gained it's armies through necromancy + some mind control, but mostly necromancy. Neither of those work on beings of metal or beings that have gone insane. Scourge is completely powerless over Yoggy.

TL;DR: it wasn't because they liked each other, just neither was in a position to fight with each other at the moment, especially with the alliance and horde on the island.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20410
Why would the old gods stop the Scourge? The Scourge were doing EXACTLY what the Old Gods wanted:

Killing all life, which is powering the spell keeping the Old Gods asleep.
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90 Gnome Warlock
7115
The Lich King never showed any signs that he was being manipulated by the Old Gods. And I think, if anything the Lich King would have considered Yogg-Saron as much as a threat to the Scourge as the Alliance and Horde, if not more so.

The Scourge may not have been able to take control of the Old God forces, raise them from the dead, but think of it this way:

If you were the Lich King, would you allow the legions of the Old God Yogg-Saron to it on your doorstep? You know that they have no master aside from Yogg-Saron himself and their forces are huge and numerous. They are immune to your plagues, would you just sit by and let them grow? Of course not, you'd attack them too!

The Scourge should have considered the Old God a serious threat and should have been in active open warfare against them.
Edited by Kazmo on 5/13/2013 12:26 AM PDT
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100 Worgen Death Knight
13605
I kind of agree. It really doesn't make much sense that the Lich King didn't attack Yogg. Yogg may have been content with letting the Lich King run rampant, but I don't think the same can be said for Arthas...

Seems weird. I'm not implying that Arthas was under Yogg's influence, but it still seems strange.
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90 Undead Warlock
11105
The Scourge should have considered the Old God a serious threat and should have been in active open warfare against them.
I think it was more "i'll grab the champions of the light first TEHN handle yoggy" idea. he probably couldnt win a war if he was also dealing with yogg.
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85 Gnome Priest
14480
I'm kinda remembering them having some conflict with Yogg-Saron's minions, something about Arthas having to cut a few down while he was making his way through the nerubian cities not to mention an imprisoned faceless one in a mine in Icecrown but it is far to late for me to delve into wowhead or wowpedia right now.

Nonetheless, I think perhaps the reason they didn't fight each other more openly was because they were helping each other out in a way.

As the Horde and Alliance fought Yogg saron's forces some would inevitably die which could then be used as fodder for the Scourge. And as the Horde and Alliance fought the Scourge they weren't as focused on the Iron Dwarves and their dismantling of the Titan safeguards.

In the end, it took independent heroes to bring both Yogg and Arthas down because were it up to the Horde and Alliance military forces solely the denizens of Azeroth would probably be munching on brains or babbling nonsense. Probably both.

So, in summary, they didn't fight each other not because of one party manipulating the other but simply because they each benefited from letting the other alone. In the future they may have butted heads but sometimes you can't deal with every threat at once. Or won't. Either or.
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100 Tauren Druid
8610
Yogg Saron and the Scourge were enemies-- unfortunately, since Azjol Nerub never made it into the game, you never saw this.

Most people don't realize Yogg Saron was supposed to be under Azjol-Nerub (he was moved to Ulduar after it was clear Azjol-Nerub wasn't going to get put in); the only indications in modern Northrend you see of that are the large number of Faceless guys you find down in those places and the Twilight Cult congregating down there.

I'm kinda remembering them having some conflict with Yogg-Saron's minions, something about Arthas having to cut a few down while he was making his way through the nerubian cities not to mention an imprisoned faceless one in a mine in Icecrown but it is far to late for me to delve into wowhead or wowpedia right now.


Yes, in Warcraft 3 Arthas and Anub'arak fight a ton of Faceless while using Azjol Nerub as a shortcut to get to Icecrown.
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90 Gnome Warlock
7115
Perhaps but that said, Yogg-Saron and the Lich King hardly act like rulers, who would leave you alone if you left them alone. To them, everyone is a target and should be a target. The Old Gods have never really made any difference politically to anyone. Everyone in their way, even other Old Gods were rivals to be destroyed.

The Lich King also seems like that too. The Scourge has no preferences on who or what they will destroy, so it seems unlikely that the Lich King would ever help Yogg-Saron out.

But again like I pointed out before, compared to the Horde and Alliance presence in Northrend, and for how short of a period they were there, it seems far more likely that Yogg-Saron would have been a far more dangerous threat to the Scourge than the two forces would have been.

Also don't forget, that Yogg-Saron also had under his control, the forces of the Titans in Uldiar, which would only make him an even more dangerous threat to the Scourge.
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
13895
The Scourge was (and sill may be) the largest army on Azeroth the watchers of Ulduar could hope to defeat the Scourge on the field.

That said Ulduar was probably the most well defended fortress on Azeroth. An assault on Ulduar would have been high risk low reward for the Scourge as the defenders of Ulduar were stone and metal beings and could not be raised as undead.
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100 Human Death Knight
13450
As others have pointed out, the Scourge and the Old God minions were openly fighting. Particularly in Ahn'Kahet. That instance starts out Scourge and ends with Old God minions because we walked right into the middle of an active warzone.

I remember hearing an interpretation of Volazj's dialog where he's not talking about the Old Gods, but is instead ranting about his Scourge enemies. "They do not live, they do not die. They are outside the cycle."

Think about it. The Titans seed Azeroth, causing the Old Gods to freak out and try to excise this alien intrusion into their world. The Titans uplifted the protodrakes and left behind constructs. Everything they left behind was immortal, and so the Old Gods infected them with the Curse of Flesh to fix that.

Then the Burning Legion introduces the Scourge. Another alien intrusion, only this one is unaffected by the Curse of Flesh because it infects things that are already flesh. The Scourge is to the Curse of Flesh what the Curse of Flesh was to the Titan constructs, and the Old Gods have no counter to it.
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90 Orc Warrior
9065
Then the Burning Legion introduces the Scourge. Another alien intrusion, only this one is unaffected by the Curse of Flesh because it infects things that are already flesh. The Scourge is to the Curse of Flesh what the Curse of Flesh was to the Titan constructs, and the Old Gods have no counter to it.

:O
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90 Gnome Warlock
7115
I was just disappointed there was not enough war between the two of them. They could have had so much more dynamic activity: Horde and Alliance elite teams slipping into Ulduar and Icecrown while the Lich King and Yogg-Saron's forces were battling it out!
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100 Night Elf Priest
17460
05/13/2013 01:00 AMPosted by Demonwizard
The Scourge should have considered the Old God a serious threat and should have been in active open warfare against them.
I think it was more "i'll grab the champions of the light first TEHN handle yoggy" idea. he probably couldnt win a war if he was also dealing with yogg.


Pretty much this. Arthas couldn't fight the Old gods and the other factions at the same time. He was already in the middle of his war against the Horde/Alliance/Argent crusade by the time Yogg became a threat, and he could just tell them to hang on while he dealt with him. He had to take care of those that were actively attacking him first.
And then, we beat Yogg ourselves. He didn't need to do it anymore.
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