SoTR Nerfed

90 Blood Elf Paladin
8695
Well they nerfed the base reduction from SoTR from 30% to 25% for 5.3

Looks like this is the attempt to nerf haste I thought they weren't going to touch but it looks like they are going to try anyway.

I still don't see this effecting anything. We're not going to gem mastery, while we may pick up a couple more pieces with mastery on it, this seems like a pointless change.

Thoughts?
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100 Draenei Paladin
18355
I didn't see it as an attack on Haste, although I supposed it indirectly could be.

My thoughts, they should go ahead and directly attack Haste and get it over with.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8695
It actually is a direct nerf to haste. The less your SoTR mitigates, the more mastery you have to have to make up for the difference.

The more mastery you have to have, the less haste you can use.

Although I foresee the majority of us completely ignoring this nerf.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
It's not an attempt to nerf haste, just Protection Paladins in general; I suppose they feel we're too strong as is, and the root cause is haste giving us a greater uptime on that buff. Making the buff weaker shouldn't devalue haste to any extreme (as greater uptime will likely still result in less overall damage taken), but perhaps this will balance us out better amongst the other tanks whose mitigation isn't nearly as consistent.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8695
Yeah I guess you're right.

For example:

Say on Heroic Tortos I take 55,000 DPS in DMG Taken. So this nerf raises that to about 57,500/58,000 dps DMG Taken.

Meh I could care less about that increase, just have better CD management and this effects nothing.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Yeah I guess you're right.

For example:

Say on Heroic Tortos I take 55,000 DPS in DMG Taken. So this nerf raises that to about 57,500/58,000 dps DMG Taken.

Meh I could care less about that increase, just have better CD management and this effects nothing.


Exactly; it's not a significant nerf - not at 5% reduction off a high-uptime DR ability. Something closer to 10~15%, and things will start looking far more dire for Prot and haste.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8695
C'mon, you didn't honestly think Paladins were actually going to go a whole patch without being nerfed in some way, did you?


Well, Battle Healer nerfed. SoTR nerfed, am I surprised?

No not really. Were we broken? No we weren't, Brewmasters are rediculously strong right now as well.

Do Warriors and DK's need some tank lovin? Yea maybe, but what good is a nerf if it can be completely ignored and proven practically pointless...
Edited by Perkee on 5/9/2013 2:25 PM PDT
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100 Tauren Paladin
12015
Oh wow, it took this long to reach the paladin forum?

Okay, before anyone panics, it's probably a datamining error. If you look at the actual tooltip (not what MMO-Champion posted), only the pre-mastery portion of the spell was changed. The part that's used when you reach level 80 is the same as before.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8695
Oh wow, it took this long to reach the paladin forum?

Okay, before anyone panics, it's probably a datamining error. If you look at the actual tooltip (not what MMO-Champion posted), only the pre-mastery portion of the spell was changed. The part that's used when you reach level 80 is the same as before.


Good lookin' out. Hopefully it's just a datamining error as you said.
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100 Human Paladin
13775
My thoughts, they should go ahead and directly attack Haste and get it over with.


I strongly disagree from a gameplay perspective. The entire point of a game is to be fun (which I'll admit is subjective), but haste is the first and only stat that has ever been fun for protection paladins. All tanks should have something like this if they don't already. It doesn't have to be from haste, but they'd have to make another stat have a similar impact.

I would be OK if they baked in the haste effect into mastery though if they are that worried about prot paladins grabbing haste gear (though they've said it's not a big deal). Of course they'd have to nerf something so that it's not overpowered, but at least then it would keep the fun factor. I'd hate to see them make haste so ineffective that we no longer want it, while not giving us anything else that actually has a perceptible impact on our cooldowns and such.

Other than that, the only change I would like to see is for them to do something about hit/expertise hard caps. Just make the stats grant something else after the cap (but at a diminished rate). Much like the old defense rating would still give avoidance after it was capped, do something similar for hit/expertise.

As far as the topic of this thread goes, I'm not concerned about the nerf (if there is one and it's not just a data mining error). I am curious though if it will have any impact on the T15 2p bonus. It's already possible to maintain 100% uptime on the buff while using 1-2 SotR between every WoG. Currently that doesn't appear to optimal for most circumstances, but I'm curious what impact (if any) the nerf will play on that particular dynamic.
Edited by Bravehearth on 5/9/2013 4:24 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
7295
Oh wow, it took this long to reach the paladin forum?

Okay, before anyone panics, it's probably a datamining error. If you look at the actual tooltip (not what MMO-Champion posted), only the pre-mastery portion of the spell was changed. The part that's used when you reach level 80 is the same as before.


05/14/2013 PTR patch notes confirm it :

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/9135374/53_PTR_Patch_Notes_-_May_14-5_14_2013#paladin

Protection

Shield of the Righteous now reduces physical damage taken by 25%, down from 30%.
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100 Tauren Paladin
12015
Yeah, that's what happens when you bring up an older thread instead of using a more recent one. :P
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90 Human Paladin
7295
Yeah, that's what happens when you bring up an older thread instead of using a more recent one. :P


No, I know, I specifically remembered this thread and revived it to point it out ;)

I didn't want to start a new one.
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100 Tauren Paladin
12015
Well if you'd started a new one there would've been three. :o
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90 Pandaren Monk
7310
05/09/2013 02:24 PMPosted by Perkee
C'mon, you didn't honestly think Paladins were actually going to go a whole patch without being nerfed in some way, did you?


Well, Battle Healer nerfed. SoTR nerfed, am I surprised?

No not really. Were we broken? No we weren't, Brewmasters are rediculously strong right now as well.

Do Warriors and DK's need some tank lovin? Yea maybe, but what good is a nerf if it can be completely ignored and proven practically pointless...


What a coincidence that i pass by on this note. I'm just curious to see how you think we are ridiculously strong (assumed you are implying we are broken) we have strengths and weakness like every other tank but I felt prot pallys were broken.
you are the only tank class that I feel has all of its bases covered in terms of tanking and mitigation.
dk's are weak to multiple adds and technically mitigate the least damage so they heal them selves (importantly only themselves)
warrior for the most part have most things covered but spell reflection doesn't work on most bosses so their only magic damage mitigater is normal CD's or shield barrier spam they also outside of their 3 minute banners and shout do little for the raid and their multi target aggro is a bit tricky and to me they seem to scale the least of the tanks with gear.
brewmasters take the most amount of damage period they can mitigate it effectively and are avoidance masters but they are also by far the most skill intensive tank class and it relies on skill to mitigate effectively and are probably the most vulnerable to sustained spell damage with a majority of their tank tools useless on spell damage.
bears i know the least of but from what I know their "shield barrier is just heal which is hard to not over heal with general non intense damage they too are reliant on avoidance and can be susceptible to spell damage I can't comment to much on them but I hear they are in a bad place most agreeing they are in the worst place out of all of them.
Paladins however are strong in basically every category that you would have for a tank.
They mitigate physical damage very effectively with enough mastery you can have a perma crit block with no charge cooldown gating use.
They have good single target threat and damage nothing amazing but definitely up there.
They have an enormous amount of mitigating and survival cooldowns
They have good sustained aoe dmg and threat with instant cast threat coming from HotR.
They can mitigate spell damage with any number of cooldowns specially the low cooldown 40% spell reduction cd.
They can self heal with WoG/EF which also gets buffed with mastery.
They can self absorb with SS
They have probably the highest shared benefit for a raid with the healing from battle healer which ive seen in some logs rival most normal ToT healers and their many other pally raid cooldowns.
Every stat including dps stats other then crit are very useful to them specifically haste a dps stat.
Am I missing anything for them? They are the only tank that I believe effectively covers all his bases not only doing that but going above and beyond on most of them. The only thing pallys may lack in is pure damage which is low compared to brewmaster but they also have battle healer to consider which to me is 1 of the most ridiculous glyph's and that alone puts pally's up there as 1 of the best tanks.

May have been a large ramble but I'm just saying I do feel bad that you are getting nerfed mostly cause Im working on a prot set on my paladin but I am more sad about warriors and druids. druids may be bull!@#$ and maybe they are amazing I've just heard pretty universally that they are not that great of tanks in comparison. Warriors aren't particularly in a bad place but compared to everyone else they just don't seem to scale with stats as hard. mastery will only allow you to block and crit block more but does not increase the mitigation of either and shield block already gives 100% block so really its just for more crit block which again can be out done (mitigation wise) by a pally that also has no charge cooldown.
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100 Tauren Paladin
12015
They mitigate physical damage very effectively with enough mastery you can have a perma crit block with no charge cooldown gating use.

...What? Even if you were stacking mastery you'd have maybe 40% block. And that's just regular block, not critical block. ShoR itself would be very strong, but if you were stacking mastery you wouldn't be getting a high uptime on it--not even close to permanent.

They have an enormous amount of mitigating and survival cooldowns

DKs have more.

They have good sustained aoe dmg and threat with instant cast threat coming from HotR.

HAHAHA. HotR is instant, yes. It's also downright terrible damage/threat. If it didn't generate Holy Power or cause Weakened Blows paladins wouldn't even use it. Most AoE threat is coming from Consecration.

They can self heal with WoG/EF which also gets buffed with mastery.

Yes, we can heal ourselves with WoG (any sane Prot paladin would never take EF). But we give up our primary defensive ability to do so, and WoG only becomes effective after three or four ShoRs. Compared to, say, Expel Harm (which is basically a free heal since it just replaces a Jab), it's not very impressive.

Every stat including dps stats other then crit are very useful to them specifically haste a dps stat.

You're a monk. You should know well enough that haste isn't a DPS stat.
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90 Human Paladin
6105
Probably a pvp nerf because of resil going away wanna make us squishier
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