Elemental Question.

90 Pandaren Shaman
MTD
6990
Echo's of the Elements vs Ancestral Swiftness

Need some help. which is better for PvP?
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I prefer AS, it's hard to beat that instant heal. I'm also a purging machine, usually pretty good about getting those bubbles BoPs and all that good stuff off quick. Nothing like watching that haste buff vanish after a few seconds.
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100 Orc Shaman
5775
Echo.

Sometimes it is not so good. Sometimes - like when you are healing and it procs on a surge - it is the best thing ever.

We have been RNG for so long that I am accustomed to that feel and go with Echo all the time.

When we had Healing Wave, not just surge then AS was a good choice. But those days are gone.

And I like it when I cast like a machine gun every once in a while.

Vote = Echo
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8970
AS for Insta hex, Heal, and Elemental Blast. Also the extra haste helps.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7015
Echo is garbage....... such a low low proc rate.

AS for instant hex is awesome and the passive haste is nice.,But dont rule out elemental mastery. Sure it gets dispelled sometimes but when it doesnt its a nice little heroism :P

I'm constantly choosing between AS and EM but never echo....

When I log on tomorrow I'm actually gonna test echo to make sure the proc rate still sucks.
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90 Troll Shaman
12170
Echoes has a 6% proc rate. Not very good for PvP. AS is a lot better for the instant Hex and passive haste.

That's not to say you can't go against the grain. It just depends on what you're doing. But if you're RBG'ing, you want to make sure you can get an instant frog on a healer or a melee eating you or your healer.
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90 Draenei Shaman
oO
9335
For personal preference, Elemental Mastery > Ancestral Swiftness > Echo

Ele Mastery absurdly increases your ascendance burst, which is great for comps where you global things in the opener (like 2s or ele disc rogue)

AS is better for comps where there's 0-1 people on the opposing team that can decurse. for example, if you're going against thugcleave, if one of them doesn't have a trinket, just AS hex them.

Echo is by far the best for RBGs, and overall does the most damage in arena. However, its way too rng dependent. When I ran with it, I globaled a mage with 1 spell (elemental blast), but the odds of that happening are way too low.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
8665
I played with EotE for roughly 3 days of constant random BGs and about 12-15 RBGs. I did not whatsoever see a significant damage increase using that talent.

I love AS for the amazing utility of the spell, both in randoms and RBGs. Instant hex, EQ, HR(using conductivity). And that flat haste increase makes my crit stacking even more viable.

I personally pushed my Mastery to 50%, and reforged everything else to crit and am loving it.
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90 Draenei Shaman
oO
9335
I played with EotE for roughly 3 days of constant random BGs and about 12-15 RBGs. I did not whatsoever see a significant damage increase using that talent.

I love AS for the amazing utility of the spell, both in randoms and RBGs. Instant hex, EQ, HR(using conductivity). And that flat haste increase makes my crit stacking even more viable.

I personally pushed my Mastery to 50%, and reforged everything else to crit and am loving it.


Hmm, did you press anything other than chain lightning during those rbgs? Echo can proq off each target the chain lightning hit including mastery proqs off of them, so you start doing absurd amounts of damage
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90 Pandaren Shaman
MTD
6990
I feel like i see my Echo proc a ton. I asked this question initially because I was wondering if it was worth dropping those procs periodically for one instant cast spell. I have tested both and they both have their advantages but i felt as if Echo was a better choice. I suppose it depends on who your up against though.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
8665
I played with EotE for roughly 3 days of constant random BGs and about 12-15 RBGs. I did not whatsoever see a significant damage increase using that talent.

I love AS for the amazing utility of the spell, both in randoms and RBGs. Instant hex, EQ, HR(using conductivity). And that flat haste increase makes my crit stacking even more viable.

I personally pushed my Mastery to 50%, and reforged everything else to crit and am loving it.


Hmm, did you press anything other than chain lightning during those rbgs? Echo can proq off each target the chain lightning hit including mastery proqs off of them, so you start doing absurd amounts of damage


The usual, spread FS keep Eleblast and lava burst on cd spam chain lightning while maximizing totem usage. I just didn't see the difference in dps I was hoping to.

I also tested it on the dummies for 5 minutes a piece eith and without EotE. There was a 2-3k dps increase with but that was it. I really expected more seeing as how I have 50% mastery.
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90 Draenei Shaman
oO
9335


Hmm, did you press anything other than chain lightning during those rbgs? Echo can proq off each target the chain lightning hit including mastery proqs off of them, so you start doing absurd amounts of damage


The usual, spread FS keep Eleblast and lava burst on cd spam chain lightning while maximizing totem usage. I just didn't see the difference in dps I was hoping to.

I also tested it on the dummies for 5 minutes a piece eith and without EotE. There was a 2-3k dps increase with but that was it. I really expected more seeing as how I have 50% mastery.


Hmm, weird. I usually just spammed CL/lava beam on CD, as well as never bothered lavabursting unless noone was stacking. usually it gets me top damage during team fights ( I think I was reforged haste > crit > mastery at the time).
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90 Draenei Shaman
oO
9335
I feel like i see my Echo proc a ton. I asked this question initially because I was wondering if it was worth dropping those procs periodically for one instant cast spell. I have tested both and they both have their advantages but i felt as if Echo was a better choice. I suppose it depends on who your up against though.


While it definitely depends on what teams you're facing, my suggestion is to test every spec possible. It'll make it much more fun for you, and you can see what you like best.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
8665
Hmm, weird. I usually just spammed CL/lava beam on CD, as well as never bothered lavabursting unless noone was stacking. usually it gets me top damage during team fights ( I think I was reforged haste > crit > mastery at the time).


I am usually in the top for damage with destro's and dks. Maybe I will revisit it.
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90 Draenei Shaman
6095
Here's how you can easily decide for yourself. Talent echo and then spam healing surge on yourself. I tested it and the proc rate really is 6%, meaning that on average I was getting 6 extra heals every 100 casts. The synergy between it and mastery is awesome but the proc rate is just abysmal. It has to be to be balanced in a sustained dps pve fight, but in a fast paced environment like pvp where just getting a cast off is difficult enough it isn't very valuable imo.

On the other hand 5% extra haste and being able to instantly hex someone is incredible in pvp. I'm at around 25% haste now and I'm still leaning towards getting more. I think I'll aim for somewhere between 26-28% haste. The hard part for me is deciding between mastery/crit for my secondary...
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100 Draenei Shaman
17255
I highly prefer Ancestral Swiftness. It's just sweet to get that instant EM crit+Mastery.
I love the haste - don't forget that the 10% Melee haste buffs Fire Elemental ;)
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I tellya, it seems like AS buffs the fire elemental a lot more than 10%. In any case, it's a noticeable increase in DPS.

I was a big fan of EotE, but I think AS is superior the more I test it.
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