Warrior buffs enough?

90 Troll Druid
9505
Warriors are fine. Rogues/mages/hunters are just absolutely retarded, and with the state of the WoW community you have to either play FotM or quit the game.
Edited by Idiotverze on 5/13/2013 7:44 PM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
4445


Yes, we are. Provide a counterexample or your point is invalid.


DK or maybe Rogue. Warrior can get out every 30s. Feral quality? No. But it's a lot better than the alternative.

Disable is leagues and leagues better than Hamstring

It's literally Hamstring that refreshes itself and still has Improved Hamstring thrown in.


Disable has an infuriatingly short hit box that requires you to already be basically on top of someone for it to apply sometimes. It sucks. If you queue into Brazilians or something on your WW, you'll want to shoot yourself.


ST is overwhelmingly the PvP talent choice.


MfD is the 90 tier pick. ST faded after the novelty wore off. Some still use it, but MfD is better.


But it's the most easily countered. And it's really only good within burst windows with CS or cooldowns up.


You could say the same for most specs. People pop CDs, they get CC'd. Damage gets interrupted or healed w/o cross CC. Sort of how it goes.


Generally, this is true, but Warriors are supposed to be a pressure-with-burst-windows class. Our filler, Overpower, crits for 30-35k on geared players at best. Only Mortal Strike and Slam do any decent damage; MS has a 6-second cooldown and Slam drains our rage bar incredibly fast.


30-35k is sort of a lot for filler.


WW is not Energy starved, neither are Rogues if you play them right. Feral is supposed to have crap regen, it's why all their moves hit so hard.

Warriors rarely go above 50 rage in Battle Stance and spend 30 rage for our damaging attacks, 10 rage on our filler.

It's uncommon to break 30 rage if in Defensive Stance. Our utter lack of pressure while defensive is probably our biggest issue.


WW isn't, no. They're fine. Sub can energy starve in a hurry. Hemo costs 30 and does less damage than your "filler". Backstab is 35. Openers are 40 up to 60 for in stealth Ambush. Energy regen is 14~ per second w/ Slice. Mut has it even worse and is always waiting for energy. Feral is too.

We tried the experiment where arms had good rage gen in defensive stance. It got silly. I'm not going to argue that rage regen for Arms is good, but I don't feel like it's particularly more frustrating than energy regen for a variety of specs. Long story short, they don't seem to want melee to be using every global to pound out damage. If you can get close to that, you're in good shape.

A little?

Casters are the biggest problem for Warriors by far, we can mitigate one cast every 25 seconds. We have to tank everything else.

Second Wind isn't even that good. It heals for ~7.5k in arenas in full gear, without an MS effect.


Yes, you have to tank the damage. But of the melees that do have a true anti-magic defense CD, how many can LoS as well as a warrior? Just WW? Rogue can use a 2nd CD to vanish I guess? Warrior's 3 instant movement abilities together are really, really powerful, and make tweaking them in other areas sort of dangerous and difficult. They become too close to having everything. IMO the main reason warriors are having problems with casters is primarily the abundance of instants and relative rarity of frequent hard casting since it somewhat negates a warrior being second only to ferals at being permanently entrenched in a caster's colon.

And 2nd wind might not be great, but it beats the hell out of Recup.
Edited by Crookston on 5/13/2013 10:49 PM PDT
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You're really asking for more defensive buffs?

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't these changes make warriors even tankier than they were last season when they were almost unkillable?
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90 Human Paladin
4880
Warriors don't need buffs at all, they are fine. They are in a good spot compared to other Melee at the moment.
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90 Human Warrior
8945
I feel like I hit people with a rubber hose even in BGs. Mages don't even blink my charge anymore.. They eat my charge stun and I can't even break their absorb shield before they can nova and waddle away :[ granted my gear is a season behind, but I shouldn't be absolutely useless..

I'm actually having more trouble with hunters than with casters. A good hunter doesn't even let me get him under 80% hp, I just can't touch them. They have so many escapes.
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90 Human Mage
9515
And it's really only good within burst windows with CS or cooldowns up.
Wow way to make a point about every class. Guys, my burst damage is only good with cds up. Do you play this game because this is how everyone is???
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90 Human Warrior
10145
i would like some sort of stagnant damage reduc in battle stance, other than that i feel pretty good about our changes.

most of our issues are getting fixed by other classes getting nerfed.

ITT: BAD WARRIORS EVERYWHERE.
Edited by Kagan on 5/14/2013 7:48 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
5290
Heres what i would like to see.

- Intervene Breaks roots baseline. This opens us up to group utility that we have been asking for (we can take sac or an Aoe Reflect although reflect cold stand to lose 15 sec off its cd)

- Hamstring taken off the gcd. Its a terrible ability that needs some love or needs to be scrapped and us given something else.

- Dragons Roar now silences the target for 3 sec instead of a .5 sec stun in addition to the knock back. A .5 sec stun that drs with other stuns is pretty dumb, atleast this gives us another option next to shockwave, although SW would still probably be superior in most situations.

Maybe something else (Cant think of anything right now) that will allow us to be brought to Rbgs.
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90 Undead Warrior
18120
Overpowered classes saying we're fine.

Yeah. We're fine.
You're not.
Go roll a warrior and try getting into groups doing more than capping this season.

The moment rogues and mages are nerfed we'll be fine; Their toolset pretty much counters ours and they're both absurd at the moment.
I don't have problems with hunters.
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90 Human Mage
9515
Overpowered classes saying we're fine.

Yeah. We're fine.
You're not.
Go roll a combat rogue and try getting into groups doing more than capping this season.

The moment sub and assass rogues and frost and fire mages are nerfed we'll be fine; Their toolset pretty much counters ours and they're both absurd at the moment.
I don't have problems with fury warriors.
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90 Undead Warrior
18120
Overpowered classes saying we're fine.

Yeah. We're fine.
You're not.
Go roll a combat rogue and try getting into groups doing more than capping this season.

The moment sub and assass rogues and frost and fire mages are nerfed we'll be fine; Their toolset pretty much counters ours and they're both absurd at the moment.
I don't have problems with fury warriors.


2/10
Mage
Pushing a viable class
Game is cancer
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
10845
I think the buffs to survivability will be enough, although I am unsure if warriors will be able to cause good pressure, or if they will bring a lot to a team.

Warriors will have lots of options for team mates though with feral druids, enhancement shaman, and windwalker monks all getting slight buffs, and of course mages and hunters still being good choices. Druids look like a good healer to work with, or maybe a shaman.

Human racials seem even more appealing since warriors will be trying to gear for offense rather than survivability, that is if there are two desirable pve trinkets.
Edited by Battleqt on 5/14/2013 11:20 AM PDT
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With as fast as all melee hit in the current state of the game, it stacks to full almost instantly. Also the fact that it doesn't stack against magic is irrelevant due to cloak (and it being better than shield wall by comparison).


It doesn't stack instantly. It takes a couple seconds. A lot can happen in 2 or 3 seconds.

Cloak is whole different ability. And it lasts 5 seconds. 40% over 12s versus 100% over 5s. Cloak also has multiple purposes for Rogue. A lot of the time, it's not defensive. It's to clear dots for a restealth, or to unroot yourself, or to make sure that poly doesn't interrupt your burst. You're comparing apples to oranges. You never have to Wall to get back on target. It is purely defensive.

I like how you make an argument comparing one ability to another, then don't like when the flaws are pointed out so you point to another ability. WHAT ABOUT THAT ONE, THAT ONE IS BS TOO

Warriors will be fine. Your defenses are going to be pretty good. Your damage and mobility are superb. If they give you back a significant amount of control or even better abilities, you'll go back into God Mode.


Most melee classes hit 2-3 times per global at least. I one global I can hit a minimum of 3 times if I don't get a mastery proc. That happens constantly. So if I'm the only one hitting the rogue it's at 3 stacks pretty much instantly. If I get a mastery proc it's at 4, then it's at 5 as soon as I overpower. So yes, almost instantly. Which is what I said.

I also said the fact that it doesn't stack against magic is irrelevant because you have a better magic defensive than any class. I have a rogue, I'm not ignorant to your class, cloak is the best magic defensive in the game. While I agree about using it to stay offensive, your examples are all pointless since you have subterfuge for dots, you have 4 things that can break roots if you don't spec BoS (since nobody does), and you have smoke bomb to stop casted CC if you don't feel like having your partners CC/interrupt them.

Also, I already said warriors are fine, I said other classes need to be brought in line and that I'd rather see the class stay how it is while other classes get nerfed. I think you're replying to the wrong person.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
2800
On PTR, Survivability is fine, damage is a little underwhelming when compared to what DKs, rogues and rets and even enhancement can put out, but that should stay the way it is. What warriors lack is utility. Other than rallying cry there is nothing a warrior brings to a team and rallying cry is more of a danger to use since it takes a big chunk out of your health when its work is done.

Safeguard would've been a good tool for helping team mates but again it's something wars use to break roots more than helping team mates since there is nothing you can do as a warrior when stuck in a root.

Defense against casters is the worst among all the melees and that has to change
Edited by Zarrok on 5/14/2013 11:45 AM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
4445
Overpowered classes saying we're fine.

Yeah. We're fine.
You're not.
Go roll a warrior and try getting into groups doing more than capping this season.

The moment rogues and mages are nerfed we'll be fine; Their toolset pretty much counters ours and they're both absurd at the moment.
I don't have problems with hunters.


Rogue is getting nerfed. Pretty significantly. Super strong warrior counters Rogue, too. Thus, Rogue wasn't terrible last season like some say, but Warrior and Hunter strength basically eliminated their presence.
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90 Undead Warrior
18120
Overpowered classes saying we're fine.

Yeah. We're fine.
You're not.
Go roll a warrior and try getting into groups doing more than capping this season.

The moment rogues and mages are nerfed we'll be fine; Their toolset pretty much counters ours and they're both absurd at the moment.
I don't have problems with hunters.


Rogue is getting nerfed. Pretty significantly. Super strong warrior counters Rogue, too. Thus, Rogue wasn't terrible last season like some say, but Warrior and Hunter strength basically eliminated their presence.

Yeah.
With warrior damage scaled back I think it'll come down to who gets the opener and a good one between the two now; Which is how it should be.
I catch you out on your own? Ded. You catch me? Ded.

Seems good to me.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
2800


Rogue is getting nerfed. Pretty significantly. Super strong warrior counters Rogue, too. Thus, Rogue wasn't terrible last season like some say, but Warrior and Hunter strength basically eliminated their presence.

Yeah.
With warrior damage scaled back I think it'll come down to who gets the opener and a good one between the two now; Which is how it should be.
I catch you out on your own? Ded. You catch me? Ded.

Seems good to me.


When's the last time you were able to get the opener on a rogue team?
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90 Human Mage
9515

Yeah.
With warrior damage scaled back I think it'll come down to who gets the opener and a good one between the two now; Which is how it should be.
I catch you out on your own? Ded. You catch me? Ded.

Seems good to me.


When's the last time you were able to get the opener on a rogue team?
last expansion
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