LF Feedback – Pet Abilities Adjustments

90 Undead Rogue
4535
make arcane storm block "force swap" abilities from "force swapping"?
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90 Tauren Shaman
12740
every time i do a random im fighting someone with a pet at the lowest lvl of mine then 2 that are 3 lvls over my highest. how is that balanced, whats the point of doing random pet battles then, im just a xp factory for the other person. then i fought many people all useing the dragons, with 2 pets way over my highest. those dragons are way op and that direhorn. your just making it so people only use a few pets and the others are worthless. if your gonna steal from pokemon then learn from them atleast.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
every time i do a random im fighting someone with a pet at the lowest lvl of mine then 2 that are 3 lvls over my highest. how is that balanced, whats the point of doing random pet battles then, im just a xp factory for the other person. then i fought many people all useing the dragons, with 2 pets way over my highest. those dragons are way op and that direhorn. your just making it so people only use a few pets and the others are worthless. if your gonna steal from pokemon then learn from them atleast.


Ques would take to long to match for mixed levels. Getting to 25 is the only real solution.
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90 Undead Hunter
13720
During pet battles, when a pet with a speed based attack (Flank, Flurry, Alpha Strike) uses that ability against a pet with a priority move (Trihorn Charge, Surge) the speed based attack does not get the extra bonus to the attack because the pet with a priority move simply has its speed increased to ensure that the priority attack goes first. I believe that this can't possibly be intended because the fact that the priority move goes first is already a huge advantage.
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90 Tauren Druid
18875
Nerf Direhorns.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
Nerf Direhorns.


Patch notes aren't hard to find.
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90 Goblin Shaman
12935
Yeah you want some suggestions? How about doing something about Switch teams? It's not fair that they deal damage on the switch, thus negating MANY combos and counters. I've fought nothing but switch teams tonight and it's !@#$ing aggravating. Oh, you want to try to block it? Too bad, there arent any pets with a base speed fast enough to put a shield up. Sit there and take that free 400 damage. I dont have any control of my team against 3 switchers. And they just rotate in and out of making your pets switch until you're dead. Thanks for that one. You know in pokemon, a switch is just that, a switch. No damage ontop of it. If you're trying to turn people off to pet battles, you're doing a fantastic job.

You force people into running with comps with pets they're not particularly fond of. I enjoy undead pets in battles, but even if I beat the other team with a rez spell... even though they've been defeated I still lose. Why not award both people the winner in that scenario if we beat each others teams? You really need to get your %^-* together because these comps literally EVERYONE runs is !@#$ing ruining the metagame. So good job with that one, thanks a lot.
Edited by Orneryboy on 8/20/2013 12:12 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
08/19/2013 11:51 PMPosted by Orneryboy
Too bad, there arent any pets with a base speed fast enough to put a shield up.


Deflection will outspeed it. Most pets that you are using with dodge will outspeed it. And lets be even more honest about this, you are only talking about 1 breed of 1 swapper at this point as the rest are very slow.

08/19/2013 11:51 PMPosted by Orneryboy
I dont have any control of my team against 3 switchers.


Maybe your team needs some tweaking? Adding a root effect can help out immensely.

08/19/2013 11:51 PMPosted by Orneryboy
You know in pokemon, a switch is just that, a switch. No damage ontop of it. If you're trying to turn people off to pet battles, you're doing a fantastic job.


Hitting the wow icon and being surprised pokemon didn't load seems to be a user problem.

08/19/2013 11:51 PMPosted by Orneryboy
You force people into running with comps with pets they're not particularly fond of.


There are so many threads with viable comps it is ridiculous to make such a statement.

08/19/2013 11:51 PMPosted by Orneryboy
but even if I beat the other team with a rez spell... even though they've been defeated I still lose.


No, you didn't win and yes there is a difference.

08/19/2013 11:51 PMPosted by Orneryboy
Why not award both people the winner in that scenario if we beat each others teams?


Because neither of you won. And this is how there is a difference. Rewards are only for winning games. If you don't win , no rewards. It is not a hard concept. Don't worry they didn't get any rewards either.

08/19/2013 11:51 PMPosted by Orneryboy
You really need to get your %^-* together because these comps literally EVERYONE runs is !@#$ing ruining the metagame.


No, its not. Add some roots or minefields maybe even both to a team. Complaining to change metas to meet what you want to play will never happen. We change the meta every time we counter what is currently popular.

So good job with that one, thanks a lot.


You're welcome.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10370
Idea for "balancing" battle pets: Don't.

It's not your responsibility to nerf the pokemon people love (like the direhorn) or to somehow alakapresto the weak ones people love anyway into somehow being viable. The best case scenario is that you end up with a fluid system where, for everything, there is a season (counter). I don't particularly want to see the less powerful (or even useless) abilities adjusted to fill such a specific niche. "Hello my darling Nightsaber Cub! You are only useful to counter a specific combo! (instead of not being useful at all)" Don't turn battle pets into pegs and holes.

Instead, simply write an algorithm that keeps track of victory/loss ratio for each combo, species, breed, and team comp. Assign a rating to each pokemon which is constantly being adjusted as the new reports come in. Add up the "value" of each team queuing into a PvP pet battle (poke1 + poke2 + poke3) + (combo1-2 + combo1-3 + combo2-3). (What do the combos mean? Simple: Does a Snowy Owl get more wins when associated with a Golden Civet than its average? If so, that combo will have an extra positive rating. You could apply negative rating here too.)

Now here's the really, truly marvelous idea: Place the players with others whose teams are closer in rating.

What does this accomplish?

1. It preserves the uniqueness of battle pets instead of turning them all into pegs and holes.

2. Strategy will actually be important. You'll be fighting (usually) teams not too much more innately powerful than your own. You can use the ones you want to, go up against people doing the same thing, and best of all...

3. Triple direhorns will be fighting... other triple direhorns.

08/20/2013 01:57 AMPosted by Hearus
You really need to get your %^-* together because these comps literally EVERYONE runs is !@#$ing ruining the metagame.


No, its not. Add some roots or minefields maybe even both to a team. Complaining to change metas to meet what you want to play will never happen. We change the meta every time we counter what is currently popular.


See, this is exactly what I mean. Orneryboy isn't wrong, he (I imagine) just doesn't want it to be so homogeneous. If he doesn't want to be forced into using one specific thing, that's not wrong. I wasn't wrong when, back in Wrath, I didn't like being forced into using a Wolf hunter pet because it was all that was viable. They changed that, because being forced like that isn't fun. Which battle pet team is the best (and its counters) being the only viable things... Well that's not fun either. Alright, well, for some people it's fun, and with my idea they can go on having fun (against each other). Methinks, however, that half the "fun" the uber-users are having is just effortlessly plowing through the teams of people trying to use what they want to use and praying others will just do the same.
Edited by Aliandrin on 8/21/2013 10:39 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
See, this is exactly what I mean. Orneryboy isn't wrong, he (I imagine) just doesn't want it to be so homogeneous. If he doesn't want to be forced into using one specific thing, that's not wrong. I wasn't wrong when, back in Wrath, I didn't like being forced into using a Wolf hunter pet because it was all that was viable. They changed that, because being forced like that isn't fun. Which battle pet team is the best (and its counters) being the only viable things... Well that's not fun either. Alright, well, for some people it's fun, and with my idea they can go on having fun (against each other). Methinks, however, that half the "fun" the uber-users are having is just effortlessly plowing through the teams of people trying to use what they want to use and praying others will just do the same.


There are other solutions as well. You aren't really bound to one team to do anything to get wins.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10370
You aren't bound to one team, but you have to admit that most battle pets just aren't viable at all. It's the same with pokemon; most aren't viable. I raised them anyway, and to me, that was the most fun. I'm definitely not alone here.

Why would I use a Hawk Owl? It's stats suck. If I use any Owl moveset it's going to have to be Miniwing for the speed. Even then, I probably won't win with that.

Why waste all this effort - the effort that, mind you, the developers have already spent meticulously coding breeds, stats, and movesets for these sad little wastes of pixels? People want to use them. Let them do so in an environment where others do the same.

Most people don't just want to min-max everything. Well, perhaps most WoW players do but that's another story. Nobody I know who has actually played pokemon has had their team composed entirely of legendaries, even though they're objectively the best and most powerful.

Coding an algorithm to keep track of which battle pets are objectively strongest and placing teams against others teams with similar combined innate strength is just logical. You go to your own weight class in boxing, don't you? This is a lot more fun and fair than it would be to watch Mike Tyson beat up a featherweight.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
08/22/2013 10:03 PMPosted by Aliandrin
You aren't bound to one team, but you have to admit that most battle pets just aren't viable at all.


I will never, EVER , say something that is not true. Expecting a hodge podge team of I like whatever pet it may be to hold its own against a well thought out team is just inane. That said there is so much proof that any pet in the right setting is viable that it is ridiculous. Please do not make the mistake of thinking viable = tons of wins. If you can work a pet into a scenario where it wins more than 50% it is indeed viable which most pets used correctly will fall in the realm of.

Most people don't just want to min-max everything


wanting to apply little effort and reap any rewards is foolish. As with most things in life you get what you give.
Edited by Hearus on 8/23/2013 3:36 AM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
15440
Is the mechanical vs elemental changes coming this patch or sometime later?
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10370
wanting to apply little effort and reap any rewards is foolish. As with most things in life you get what you give.


It's not a matter of effort. It's a matter of min-maxers vs. those wanting to have fun with the pokemon they want to use. BOTH groups should probably have a chance to get what they want out of pet battles. A rating system for each species of pet would do that. I know I won't PvP pet battle with the current meta, because I don't like it. I don't think it's fun. I don't care what rewards are given; I just won't do it. I'll stick to PvE. Call me wrong and stupid and unwilling to give effort if you want to (but then check how many hours I log every day; the hours don't lie).

And it's not "no strategy" when Bob's favourite team comes up against Bill's favourite team. Outside the current meta (which DOES frustrate a lot of people; personally though I won't enter and be frustrated, I just won't enter at all) each team could be anything. Each player, therefore, has to use the moves and abilities of his own team to utmost effect against something he's probably never seen before.

(Also, I did give you an example of a totally unviable pet, the Hawk Owl.)

If I diligently raise three owls, just to name the white one Queen Tyto, the brown one Kludd Tyto, and the black one Iron Tyto, and go into pet battles with them, that's still effort. Heck, even just raising something less powerful is a little harder, yes, even when you're just switching and raising it on NPC trainers.

A rating system would help everyone who's frustrated by the current meta. It wouldn't hurt the people who like it as it is, unless their uber skillz amount to nothing more than blowing through teams not as "well-thought-out" as just using three direhorns.

It won't be done, and I recognise that.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
Expecting people who put in less effort to get the same rewards as people who put in max effort is the reason it won't be done.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12425
I don't know if this was mentioned but I figure the change has something to do with balancing ... but the pet pygmy direhorn and other direhorns use the ability trihorn charge it is key as all of the pets abilities are on cooldown to have something that can be used every round so y on earth are u guys changing that ability to have a 1 round cooldown that is absolutely ridiculous but if the "FOTM" pet battle players who cry about any combo of moves that effectively stops there current fotm team wins and u feel the need to change this ability which should not be changed to having a 1 round cooldown then all moves that go first no matter what should be changed to samething and have a 1 round cooldown I mean lets be honest this change is just for the crybabies that cant handle a move that goes first well then take their move away as well that always goes first literally that is y they have cried they are tired of losing to this move when they have a move that always goes first so how do u deal with it and get past that move u cry in the forums till the game devs change it then use your goes first move always to win u guys need to take this into consideration as that is all that is going on here IMO!!!!!!!!!!!
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90 Night Elf Druid
11755
I don't know if this was mentioned but I figure the change has something to do with balancing ... but the pet pygmy direhorn and other direhorns use the ability trihorn charge it is key as all of the pets abilities are on cooldown to have something that can be used every round so y on earth are u guys changing that ability to have a 1 round cooldown that is absolutely ridiculous but if the "FOTM" pet battle players who cry about any combo of moves that effectively stops there current fotm team wins and u feel the need to change this ability which should not be changed to having a 1 round cooldown then all moves that go first no matter what should be changed to samething and have a 1 round cooldown I mean lets be honest this change is just for the crybabies that cant handle a move that goes first well then take their move away as well that always goes first literally that is y they have cried they are tired of losing to this move when they have a move that always goes first so how do u deal with it and get past that move u cry in the forums till the game devs change it then use your goes first move always to win u guys need to take this into consideration as that is all that is going on here IMO!!!!!!!!!!!


Since you do not understand why, I might as well spell it out for you.

Trihorn Charge - 26 power 85% accuracy

Every other priority move - 15 power 100% accuracy

Average damage: 22.1 vs. 15

These moves are totally even. One is definitely not almost 50% better.
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90 Undead Warrior
19200
The change I would like to see the most would be a reduction in the RNG....

I've made a nice team for pet battles, and figured out the best way to play it.

Get into a battle, line things up well... and a 95% to hit attack misses 3x straight, while my opponent's 80% hit attack lands every time... and this isn't a 1-time occurrence, it's about half of all pvp pet battles being decided not at all by the matchup, choice of abilities to use - but purely by the RNG.

I tried getting around it by using only 100% hit abilities...but you still can't because of the 10% hit reduction on Darkness etc, 50% hit reduction blind... I watched my beloved frosty's 95% and 100% hit chance abilities do the following:
round 1
- Wisp casts Flash.
- Frosty casts Blizzard. 100% reduced to 50%. Miss.
round 2
- Wisp casts Light. Yay heavy damage guaranteed hit - ok, I get the combo.
- Frosty casts diseased bite. Miss. 95% reduced 50% = 45%.
round 3
- Wisp casts Arcane Explosion, damaging all 3 pets. Ok!
- Frosty casts diseased bite. Miss. 95% chance... missed.
round 4
- Wisp casts Flash again.
- Frosty casts diseased bite. Miss. 95% reduced by 50% = 45%.
round 5
- Wisp casts Light. Yay heavy damage guaranteed hit!
- Frosty casts Blizzard. 100% - 50% = 50%. Miss.

This went on for 2 more rounds - not a single hit landed, then Frosty finally died - and in his free undead I am dead round, landed a single bite.

Moving along... I stage a comeback because he foolishly leaves the Wisp out against my Son of Animus... then my Harbinger annilates his mech... great, he's messed up all over! All that's left is his direhorn......
...which promptly causes my remaining pets to miss their turn 3 out of the next 6 rounds, while they manage to miss 3 more times in between on 90% and 95% hit chances, and kills them both with barely a scratch.

If this was a one off - fine, bad RNG happens - but it's not. It's frequent. Very, very frequent. I thought the point of this pet battles was to have a winning strategy, not just ride the winning dice rolls.
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90 Undead Warrior
19200
08/27/2013 06:54 AMPosted by Yijiao
I don't know if this was mentioned but I figure the change has something to do with balancing ... but the pet pygmy direhorn and other direhorns use the ability trihorn charge it is key as all of the pets abilities are on cooldown to have something that can be used every round so y on earth are u guys changing that ability to have a 1 round cooldown that is absolutely ridiculous but if the "FOTM" pet battle players who cry about any combo of moves that effectively stops there current fotm team wins and u feel the need to change this ability which should not be changed to having a 1 round cooldown then all moves that go first no matter what should be changed to samething and have a 1 round cooldown I mean lets be honest this change is just for the crybabies that cant handle a move that goes first well then take their move away as well that always goes first literally that is y they have cried they are tired of losing to this move when they have a move that always goes first so how do u deal with it and get past that move u cry in the forums till the game devs change it then use your goes first move always to win u guys need to take this into consideration as that is all that is going on here IMO!!!!!!!!!!!


Since you do not understand why, I might as well spell it out for you.

Trihorn Charge - 26 power 85% accuracy

Every other priority move - 15 power 100% accuracy

Average damage: 22.1 vs. 15

These moves are totally even. One is definitely not almost 50% better.


This would be correct - except for the RNG elements.

The 50% miss a turn chance is a real winner - I've personally had a triple direhorn team facing me trigger it 11 out 13 times used over the course of the fight, and never miss a single 80% attack, while my 95% attacks missed twice.

RNG in the pet battles is way too big of a factor in determining who wins.
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90 Undead Warrior
19200
What I would like to see is the matchup determine the fate of the battle. Who picked what team and executed what, swapped when, hit what ability when... when I lose to a well executed combo, it makes me really want to come up with a way to beat that combo next time!

Far too many matches are being decided by the dice roll, not the choice of pets, abilities and execution of strategy.

I've been on the win side of it a few times too - but I don't enjoy it. It's far more enjoyable to execute a winning strategy than it is to just have your opponent miss 3 times more than you do and just lose because of it.
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