LF Feedback – Pet Abilities Adjustments

90 Blood Elf Priest
9410
91647517792:
Isn't that its job? Weather can be countered by other weather. It would also be cool if DoTs applied by an elemental weren't reduced by sandstorm (but were still reduced by shell shield and other non-weather reductions) -- I'm not sure from what Mumper said if that's how they intend it to work or not. There's also corrosion and the mangle/black claw family to counter sandstorm.

DoTs are quite strong if they aren't being countered (even without something like corrosion, lightning storm, or the black claw/hunting party combo), I don't see why they shouldn't have a viable counter.


Sandstorm has a shorter cooldown than some other weathers. It's kinda tricky to keep gone even with two Darkness pets in the same team swapping between them for shorter CDs.
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90 Troll Warrior
13875
Sandstorm should be changed to a % reduction instead of a flat reduction. That way it is stilll effective but doesn't completely negate certain compositions.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
18230
91647416580:
Thank you to everyone who has shared their feedback with us so far, we appreciate it. Based on some of the comments we’ve received, here is an updated list of potential changes we’re hoping to include in Patch 5.4:

  • The Magic passive now caps damage taken at 35% of maximum health, buffed from 40%.
  • The Dragonkin passive effect now activates when the enemy is taken below 50% health, up from 25%.
  • The Aquatic passive now reduces DOT damage by 50%, up from 25%.
  • The Elemental passive effect now only affect negative, direct effects of weather (e.g. the accuracy reduction of Sandstorm won’t be applied, but the damage reduction will).
  • The Critter passive now makes critters completely immune to roots, stuns, and sleeps.

  • Keep that feedback rollin’ in!


    This is wonderful. I'm really glad you guys aren't completely scrapping the elemental weather relationship like you talked about earlier. That was the lamest thing I've ever heard.

    These look really good.
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    90 Night Elf Druid
    5485
    91644618698:
    Sandstorm should be changed to a % reduction instead of a flat reduction. That way it is stilll effective but doesn't completely negate certain compositions.


    But then it would have no counter (other than replacing it with a different weather). As it is, it's strong against dots and multihits (including alpha strike/tail sweep types), but weak against burst damage (moves like lift-off, pump and geyser barely even notice it, unless it makes them miss -- it's possible that accuracy reduction and damage reduction shouldn't be in the same weather, especially since there is already a weather that reduces accuracy).

    I'd rather see its reduction reduced if necessary than see it changed to something that affects all attacks equally, that would be much more strategically boring.

    If DoT or multihit heavy comps need to carry a weather change to deal with sandstorm, that is fine IMO as long as sandstorm using pets don't have the damage output to heavily punish the need to swap to the weather changer (which they shouldn't, especially while sandstorm is up).
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    90 Draenei Shaman
    10900
    91644519114:
    it's possible that accuracy reduction and damage reduction shouldn't be in the same weather


    You're only looking at this from a PvP-oriented balance perspective. Thematically, accuracy reduction and damage reduction both fit with a sand storm. Having 2 abilities reinforce each other adds depth to being in a sand storm.

    Is sandstorm even used a lot in PvP, and is it really hard enough to counter that an extremely disruptive fix is absolutely necessary? I acknowledge some problems in PvP will be so bad that we'll have to accept sacrifices, but is sandstorm at that level? (I honestly don't know the answers to those questions since I've never done pet PvP, but I think they are important to consider)

    Sorry for getting sucked into this, but I really don't like that the forums so often focus on the rock-paper-scissors stuff and ignore story and theme and just the general feel of the game. A lot of players that don't visit the forums care about the feel a whole lot more than who is the current flavor of the month or stuff like that. While RPS and balance is important, just try to respect the impact changes have on other aspects of the game.
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    BnB
    14295
    Sandstorm should probably have its cooldown in line with other weather. Other than that it is fine. Even in pvp. Almost every comment against has something along the lines of it isn't fun. That has no basis in real terms for a power adjustment. I promise all of you if we made this game into all the things I thought was fun it would more than likely be fat less enjoyable for most of you.
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    90 Troll Rogue
    21085
    91644619073:
    Is sandstorm even used a lot in PvP, and is it really hard enough to counter that an extremely disruptive fix is absolutely necessary? I acknowledge some problems in PvP will be so bad that we'll have to accept sacrifices, but is sandstorm at that level?

    Not yet but these changes might push it over the top. Right now there is one good pet that can supply sandstorm, idol. This has the effect of keeping sandstorm teams reasonably in check because there is aren't many good suppliers and undead pets are quite common in the meta game.

    On June 21 when people can get qiraj guardling sandstorm usage will likely go up because it will have two strong suppliers. It will still be countered pretty well by undead pets but the guardling with its higher attack may be quite common and more people may start running sandstorm teams. With 5.4 opening up sandstorm teams to elementals as well countering sandstorm teams will require a more specific team comp.

    I'm not sure this will push sandstorm over the top but it might, sandstorm is very disruptive to the meta game. If it becomes prevalent enough it effectively kills dot and multi-hit teams that don't bring their own weather.

    Also I'm not sure where people are getting sandstorm has a shorter CD than other weathers, blizzard, lighting, scorched earth and sandstorm all have a 3 turn CD.
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    90 Human Paladin
    17670
    I don't see the problem with Sandstorm countering DoTs/multi-hits. Should Black Claw and Exposed Wounds be gutted because of their synergy with the same types of attack? Also, LOL @ the person with a double Darkness team QQing about Sandstorm...
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    90 Blood Elf Death Knight
    8420
    87954718559:
    Flying abilities would deal less damage versus Elemental (instead of Dragonkin)


    I'd rather not have this one change.. Don't care so much about the others though.
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    i didn't read the whole thing, avoid messing with type match-up... it is hard to figure the new stuff out :(.
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    90 Goblin Shaman
    15185
    91647517792:
    DoTs are quite strong if they aren't being countered

    Many DOT effects do very little damage more than single-hit abilities when totalled up. Usually the only benefit is higher accuracy and the POTENTIAL to be combo'd with other effects... many such effects (Mangle, that trash Black Claw, Exposed Wounds) do no damage themselves for that turn. So you may see "OMG DOT + BLACK CLAW OP PLZ NERF" but it's really just 2 turns' worth of damage that took 2 turns to set up, and offers many opportunities to swap.

    1 move, Sandstorm, should not kill half the metagame just by potentially being present. It's no different than when Fluxfire was doing its thing. Sure, I capitalized and rode my Oily Slimeling to many free wins... but having to always design my team around "How do I not auto-lost to Fluxfire" was not a fun aspect of the metagame.

    Even at half the reduction, Sandstorm would prove to be a massive hindrance to DOTs/multi-hits without outright killing their presence in the metagame. If DOTs are a big concern, the Aquatic racial buff as well as Cleansing Waters should be right up your alley. And there are a handful of pets with shell shield style effects. Your argument on DOTs implies you have no options to address them without Sandstorm at its current absurd power level, which just isn't the case.

    The point of a diverse metagame is that you can't just select 3 specific pets to shut down every enemy strategy and auto-win.

    Right now, since 5.3, my win-loss ratio with the team I've been PVPing with is approximately 35 to 2, and 1 of those losses was on the heals of 2 25% stun successes against me, 4+ misses at 85%+ hit chance, and 0 enemy misses at 70% hit chance... which went down to the last turn where my immortal undead killed the enemy pet before the round ended, and the game randomly gave my opponent the "win" despite being KOd first. All in all, I've had exactly 1 legitimate loss since 5.3. I'm not playing any of the metagame junk, no Sandstorm, no Raptor DOT team, no Darkness, no Kun-Lai Runts, no Win-By-Graphics-Lag Lightning-Cyclone abuse, none of that. (To be honest, it's mostly Direhorn Runt doing the heavy lifting but my other 2 choices do a good job combating things that do well against said Direhorn, as well as acting as checks to specific metagame threats.)

    EDIT: And, in fact, Direhorn Runt may be overpowered. Primal Cry combined with a moderate speed and Horn Attack shuts down a lot. Even if Critters became CC immune, they'd just flat-out die to Beast damage. Maybe Primal Cry is overpowered, maybe Horn Attack is, the combination of the two (which I USE mind you) is probably overpowered. I've also made Sandstorm abuse teams with the current poor selection of users, said teams went undefeated and were long drawn-out unfun matches. I do test these things before making a big fuss about them.

    Anyone can have an awesome win-loss ratio by understanding the metagame and building around it. The problem is going to come when Sandstorm just becomes the only metagame and players aren't allowed to competitively use Frogs or Oozes or most Critters or most Undead/Fliers, etc. Right now, I face a LOT of variety and have struggled more with some of the wackier things like Thundertail Flapper than Kun-Lai Runt. I don't really want the Fluxfire-style metagame back where I have to run a specific anti-Sandstorm team. I got REAL tired of having to run Oily Slimeling, Nether Faerie Dragon, Scourged Whelpling/Infected Squirrel or just lose because I couldn't account for the abundance of Fluxfires and Fel Flames (most peoples' anti-Fluxfire choice).
    Edited by Thundere on 5/30/2013 11:15 AM PDT
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    90 Human Monk
    10145
    I would love to keep a set of battle pets active on one character and keep them there, even if I swap them out on another toon. For example, if I have a toon parked in Felwood trying to catch that danged Minfernal, I want to be able to pop in frequently and see if something has spawned. If I have my level 14-15 pets for Felwood up, I want to keep them there on that toon. Otherwise, when I log in to see if anything has spawned, I can easily lose the moment because I was battling my 25's on an alt and now my level 14-15 team is gone. I almost lost the opportunity to grab my baby ape since the rainstorm was almost over by the time I switched back to my level 10 pets.

    Oh, and while we're on the topic of Minfernals, I don't suppose you would consider removing CRZ from the Shattered Vale in Felwood? Camping is infuriating enough on a tight play schedule without seeing six people from other servers camping the same tiny area.
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    90 Blood Elf Death Knight
    12395
    I can't give you guys "hard data" all I notice is that some pets are really strong while others aren't. Pets like the Yeti, can stun and do high damage. And Pets like Son of Animus can heal and do high damage. I just want a fighting chance against these pets.. q.q

    Also, Can you make the zone that spawns "Minfernal" not be apart of CRZ, or increase that pet's spawn rate. It's like impossible to have appear especially with all the people around. Ty!
    Edited by Lunaci on 5/30/2013 10:34 PM PDT
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    90 Orc Hunter
    12330
    I just want pets to have differing defensive values against physical and magic based attacks, more complexity please
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    60 Night Elf Druid
    3890
    Thank you to everyone who has shared their feedback with us so far, we appreciate it. Based on some of the comments we’ve received, here is an updated list of potential changes we’re hoping to include in Patch 5.4:

  • The Magic passive now caps damage taken at 35% of maximum health, buffed from 40%.
  • The Dragonkin passive effect now activates when the enemy is taken below 50% health, up from 25%.
  • The Aquatic passive now reduces DOT damage by 50%, up from 25%.
  • The Elemental passive effect now only affect negative, direct effects of weather (e.g. the accuracy reduction of Sandstorm won’t be applied, but the damage reduction will).
  • The Critter passive now makes critters completely immune to roots, stuns, and sleeps.

  • Keep that feedback rollin’ in!


    This all sounds good to me.

    While this isn't a balance change, I would like to see some work done with the UI so that a battle can be conducted entirely with the keyboard. At the moment you need to use the mouse to flee a battle, or select which pet to use.
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    90 Tauren Druid
    16180
    Sandstorm should probably have its cooldown in line with other weather.


    While I think there would be nothing wrong with a slightly longer cooldown, unless I'm mistaken it currently IS in line with most other weather. Arcane Winds, Scorched Earth, Blizzard, Sandstorm, and Cleansing Rain are all 3 rounds. I've never used Sunlight but I assume its 3 too. Darkness is the outlier at 5.

    Edit: A quick check says I was almost right. Sunlight is 5 rounds (which seems disproportionate to its usefulness), and I forgot Mudslide which is -- also somewhat oddly -- 4 rounds. I had the others correct. That's not to say that those cooldowns wouldn't be ok with some adjustment.
    Edited by Chorn on 5/31/2013 5:33 PM PDT
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    90 Dwarf Warrior
    5490
    Nerf the unholy heck out of brittle web. Especially fix that it damages my Mechanognome for when it's turret shoots. Oh, and nerf the danged harbinger of fire. When he does more damage than mine and is faster at the same level, it's a bit broken.
    Edited by Throlk on 6/1/2013 12:04 AM PDT
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    BnB
    14295
    Darkness is the outlier at 5.


    While in stats it is the outlier, it is probably were most if not all of them should be. Having weather at a disadvantage to other weathers because of cooldown times is a poor idea in general.
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    90 Tauren Druid
    16180
    Well, yes, I was just saying how it currently was. Not whether or not it should be altered in some way.
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