LF Feedback – Pet Abilities Adjustments

90 Blood Elf Paladin
15060
Undead currently DON'T die if they swap out.

Sandstorm really shouldn't need much of a nerf--the two best providers until 5.4 are going to be Anubisath and the Guardling, and both are weak to Undead. Either a strong Undead attack OR your own weather will both heavily disrupt a Sandstorm team, and taking an Aquatic to fix the first leaves you with an extremely predictable crew. In 5.4, you'll start to see Elementals bringing it, and really that's the potential problem: Elementals inside Sandstorm might well be too damn good, since they don't suffer the accuracy penalty and can provide a low-cost second Sandstorm for the team.

With an Elemental as your second provider, the whole 'Undead maul my weather inducers!' weakness abruptly vanishes, and the Elemental can ignore any of the nastiest effects of an enemy weather change. Removing the accuracy penalty wouldn't really change how Sandstorm plays, but it would lessen the synergy with the Elemental pet type.
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90 Undead Rogue
4535
"The Magic passive now caps damage taken at 35% of maximum health, buffed from 40%."

That makes no difference at all.

It still means magic pets will go down in 3 turns. 35 * 3 = 105% (dead). If it was down to 30% or even 33% the racial would be useful since it would guarantee your pet would be alive for 4 attacks (provided no multi attacks or dots).
Edited by Kenpo on 6/5/2013 8:51 AM PDT
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100 Tauren Druid
16870
06/05/2013 03:39 AMPosted by Lusden
Undead currently DON'T die if they swap out.


Unless that's changed recently, they do die even if they aren't the active pet. They get an extra full round and expire.

"The Magic passive now caps damage taken at 35% of maximum health, buffed from 40%."

That makes no difference at all.

It still means magic pets will go down in 3 turns. 35 * 3 = 105% (dead). If it was down to 30% or even 33% the racial would be useful since it would guarantee your pet would be alive for 4 attacks (provided no multi attacks or dots).


You're assuming that every hit will hit the cap. In practice, that's not going to be the case. Currently, at 40% for a pet with average health (1400), 40% is 560. So anything greater than 560 is reduced to 560 (at that health total). There are a lot of things that can hit that hard - but they either have cooldowns or set up or both. Basic attacks aren't going to hit that hard every turn (unless you're talking dragonkin and since they *are* magic's counter, I think you can't argue that they shouldn't be more effective). At 35%, instead of 560 you'd be looking at 490 for a magic pet with 1400 health. Shaves a little more damage off of the big hits so you'll have more health for when the smaller hits come.

And there are other factors. There are magic pets with heals (e.g., ooze's have absorb). There are magic pets that have greater or lesser amounts of health (changing the threshold... 35% of 1200 is obviously less than 490 -- while for 1800 it would be more; that's going to change the effect it has on your incoming damage).

So it does make a difference.
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1 Night Elf Druid
0
i think they should make arcane mages stronger . I believe arcane mages need to do more damage then what their doing. They also need more defense so they wont die as easy. I Don't see any arcane mages playing any more they should make it so that every class is equally played. Like for example frost mages they are to over powered i think they need to be nerfed alot.

i hope there someone out there who agrees with me on making arcane mages stronger.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
i think they should make arcane mages stronger . I believe arcane mages need to do more damage then what their doing. They also need more defense so they wont die as easy. I Don't see any arcane mages playing any more they should make it so that every class is equally played. Like for example frost mages they are to over powered i think they need to be nerfed alot.

i hope there someone out there who agrees with me on making arcane mages stronger.


I think they should make people read more than the word feedback before they post. It would make posting stronger overall. I know it is but a dream but I do believe.
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100 Orc Shaman
17345
I think an additional problem we have right now is that Mechanical abilities are pretty much only found on Mechanical pets, while most other types are found on many others.
Edited by Ryrok on 6/10/2013 9:58 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
I think an additional problem we have right now is that Mechanical abilities are pretty much only found on Mechanical pets, while most other types are found on many others.


it is really hard to give a mech attack to something and not have it be mechanical. Maybe something with a gun. Or maybe a shark with a laser mounted on it.
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90 Undead Rogue
4535
I think an additional problem we have right now is that Mechanical abilities are pretty much only found on Mechanical pets, while most other types are found on many others.


Yeah that one is kind of hard to work in, it wouldn't make sense for a non mech pet to get a mech attack. They gave anubisath a mech attack, but they also gave it a 50% chance to miss.

Beast attacks on the other hand are very common, which plays into the meta game big time. (no critters anywhere).
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100 Tauren Druid
16870
There a limited few. Such as the Enchanted Broom.
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90 Goblin Shaman
15185
I know, but my Anubisath Idol has no other option in that slot. :( It's either 80% hit chance and decent damage or 50% hit chance with good damage. It has no "high hit chance/low damage" ability that doesn't have a CD. Even adding a 1 round CD to them and increasing their hit chance to 90% would work.

You DO realize Anubisath has a low 276 power so a 400+ damage move with no cooldown like Crush IS HIGH damage, not just "decent damage". No, no, I really don't think one of the most broken and metagame defining pets needs more of a buff... If you want a stronger offensive presence, play an offensive pet.
A 90% accurate 1-round CD Demolish, for example, would lead to:
Demolish => Rupture => Demolish => Sandstorm => Demolish => 1 dead turn => Repeat

This would be a completely absurd buff and make Anubisath insanely overpowered.

I WOULD prefer if several common filler attacks had more accuracy and a little less power though. 5.3 fixed a few accuracy things and the tooltips are nice, only to make it very difficult to find movesets with decent accuracy. In THIS respect, I agree with the above poster. The main reason Anubisath Sandstorm is a bit less common than before is the 70% accuracy on Crush, and I rather agree that making something more RNG-y isn't a good method of balance. Sandstorm remains the problem in this specific example.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
Sandstorm remains the problem in this specific example.


And yet here we are on the night 5.4 goes to ptr and the devs still think it is fine. And let us not act like they don't do balance passes on powers.

Again you not liking it doesn't make it op.

Disclaimer:I would still not be shocked to see it get a round or two add to its cooldown at some point. I don't see the power itself changing though.
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90 Goblin Shaman
15185
Just because Blizzard doesn't see it as often or as quickly doesn't mean that it isn't the case. It will often take them several patch cycles to fix glaringly obvious issues that never should've left the PTR. You can see the recent QQ over Kil'Jaeden's Cunning as a prime example... it was VERY obvious it would become a mandatory talent and it was VERY obvious it went against their design philosophy, yet it was still in the game as such since what, 5.1 or 5.2?

When Sandstorm becomes competitively usable on something more than Anubisath Idol, ie a dozen new Elementals, that might be what it takes for Blizzard to see how it wrecks:
- Most Critters
- Most Flying attacks
- Almost every fast pet
- All DOTs, which is a dispropotionate amount of Undead/Elemental damage sources (which Cleansing Rain is already supposed to help against but who uses that? lol)
- Makes the metagame annoying with that 10% accuracy drop, which Darkness and apparently Mudslide also already do for no particular reason

The whole point of the 5.3 accuracy changes was to help combat some of the annoying RNG in pet battles, which made the experience frustrating for a lot of players. YOU were one of, if not the, biggest advocate against reducing the RNG issues because, for some reason, Fun vs Frustration doesn't factor into your logic.

Making 2 dominant weather types throw that 10% miss rate out there against people who chose 95-100% accurate moves just hinders a lot of the fun of the metagame.

As Sandstorm is, this would be like if Darkness had a 3-turn cd, lasted 9 turns, and reduced healing by 95%. An entire segment of the metagame would become unusable, and healing is a much SMALLER segment of the metagame than multi-hit and DOT abilities. Or if Mudslide just made players unable to swap pets period, or for something ridiculous like 9 turns. Single moves that completely destroy huge chunks of the metagame or strategy, like Sandstorm, need to be weeded out for a healthy and diverse metagame to exist. Period.

If 5.3 lands as is, I'll just make a Sandstorm-abusing team and laugh my way to free wins. I already do it with Direhorn Runt, which is itself being nerfed.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11020
I wouldn't mind a more Pokemon style with a more complex resistance/weakness chart. I know pet battles are supposed to be simple, but I think it wouldn't be *that* much.

Regardless, the mentioned changes seem to make more sense and I think they would work out.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
Just because Blizzard doesn't see it as often or as quickly doesn't mean that it isn't the case. It will often take them several patch cycles to fix glaringly obvious issues that never should've left the PTR
\

Idol has been a premiere pve pet since the day it was released. They were aware enough of it to swap powers pre 5.2 to prevent easy self double shielding. So feel free to think it is something that is flying under their radar. Just do not be surprised when it isn't changed(minus maybe a cooldown change) and you keep posting this nerf post with me replying to them.
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90 Human Paladin
15345
Ugh, I just realized that Sandling is going to be a beast with Sand Bolt-Sandstorm-Stone Rush
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100 Human Paladin
18805
jk
Edited by Turgon on 6/21/2013 3:28 PM PDT
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90 Human Mage
8355
We’re looking to make further Pet Battles adjustments in a future patch (potentially 5.4), and your valuable feedback is needed!

Currently, in an Elemental vs. Mechanical matchup, Elementals gain both an attack bonus versus Mechanicals as well as a defensive bonus against Mechanical abilities. In order to help even the playing field a bit, we were mulling over some potential changes to damage types, and the families they would be weak against.

Here are some initial ideas that are being kicked around:

  • Mechanical abilities would deal less damage versus Critter (instead of Elemental)
  • Elemental abilities would deal less damage versus Dragonkin (instead of Critter)
  • Flying abilities would deal less damage versus Elemental (instead of Dragonkin)

  • And here is a second set of ideas we’re considering:

  • Undead abilities would deal less damage versus Elemental (instead of Aquatic)
  • Mechanical abilities would deal less damage versus Aquatic (instead of Elemental)

  • Your thoughts on these potential changes would be really helpful, so please take a moment to reply below and let us know what you think.


    boths are fine,
    the first is better for PVP:

    mech will not be hard counter by elementals.
    critter (5.4) will be stun imune, with this they still can be bursted by elementals. a good balance. elementals will still perfom well

    but
    Flying abilities would deal less damage versus Elemental (instead of Dragonkin)
    this is good, but need to review some fly abilities to do not hard counter dragons. and put things in therms.
    you need to remove crow from the game or take out his darkness (and from other similars fly pets). he is already ridiculous. even when less 50% he is still faster then most of other pets. if you switch he will kill or entire team.
    i like my faerie dragon and even with arcane spells he most of the time he can kill.

    TAKE TIME TO BALANCE OUR GAME.
    since you planning to make "arena pets" pls, take a review in overall damage.

    -bite gives less than 300dmg

    -arcane blast, have low damage, take to much time to scale and is reseted when change target.

    -stampede for 3 turns is to much, is better 2.

    -ropling have to much damage against his counter, ( high speedy)

    -healing should give critcals too, why just only damage?

    - rots from plants cant avoid sweep

    -enchanted broom with wind up, when proc a crit, the 10% damage scale with the base damage, i saw 1.1k damage in my fire imp yesterday. Again spells that forces enemy swap pet in battle should not give more than 300dmg, because we already losing a turn. atm, direhorn+broom+(any pet) have the best wining rate.

    -The weather moonlight sucks, and need a review or rework

    I TRIED FOR 2 MONTHS USE IT, because i like my faerie dragon. I can give some feedback.

    At first, sunny day work with heals better, because humans automaticaly heals more and bigger health bar is better for healears. healing teams, gain more life a bigger health bar. wish works wonder.



    magic creatures dont have heal at all, (only 1 lantern, wish + arcane blast, but he is trash) so you have to combine with undeads that perform good heals, but the main problem is that this is a mental trap. this units (with life steal) hits for 150dmg average, and you heal 175. this is to weak. better improve damage. but since life gain with small hits have much more chance to be completely mitigated, its better to use single heals. Even now, the heals over time that we have text "heal twice efecitve in suuny day".

    the only spell that work exclusively in moonlight is "creeping fungus".

    if you go for the damage buff, again in magic school, i found the best performance is with surge of power. arcane storm, give much more bonus damage. so i dont understand, none work as it should be.
    i tried to ignore the bounus healing and work with the dmg bonus but if you get a team with heals you got overcomed much more than the damage you give with magic spells. its not good at all since arcane blast take to much time to give significant damage.
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    100 Orc Death Knight
    14490
    I'm not sure this is totally on topic for the examples listed as feedback you are seeking but is there any chance whatsoever of making players on PVP realms immune to attack once they have started a pet battle?

    As an example I have been hunting down that adorable and elusive Baby Ape to complete my Eastern Kingdoms Safari. Tonight I logged to an alt on Sargeras PvP to try my luck at finding some rain. Luckily I logged right as the rain started, success! To my surprise I the first Baby Ape I located was Rare! Bonus! Not more than 30 seconds into the battle some [insert many expletives] priest decides to gank me mid-fight. By the time I run myself back out to the island sunny skies have returned.

    I played on PvP realms for years and I understand that ganking and what not are part of the PvP experience and that's fine. But when you have to spend a lot of time and hope for a lot of luck to find pets like the Baby Ape and now the new Qiraji Guradling, having to worry about being ganked for the same pet just isn't right. Being able to kill someone faster shouldn't determine who gets a pet, it should be first come, first tag and you shouldn't be vulnerable in my opinion. It would be nice if that little mini-instance/cut-scene you enter to battle could also be sanctuary or something similar to stop this problem.

    I'm sure you've already heard this complaint from many other people but the wounds are still fresh and I just need to feel like I at least tried to make myself heard. Thank you for your consideration and taking the time to read this novella.
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    BnB
    14295
    I'm not sure this is totally on topic for the examples listed as feedback you are seeking but is there any chance whatsoever of making players on PVP realms immune to attack once they have started a pet battle?


    They have commented on this several times. They want us attackable and it is not going to change.
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