Upcoming mastery nerfs

90 Human Paladin
10655
Will mastery still be the #1 stat? Will you continue to stack it compared to crit or haste?
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90 Undead Mage
11495
I doubt the 2% will make that much of a difference in stat priority, really more of an overall nerf to hpal efficiency in my eyes, but I could be wrong.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
I doubt the 2% will make that much of a difference in stat priority, really more of an overall nerf to hpal efficiency in my eyes, but I could be wrong.


It's a scaling nerf as well as the 2% base nerf. Equates to about 16.6~%.

If you have 30% (12% base + 18% gear) it will end up at 25% (10% base + 15% gear).

Haste doesn't increase raw power though, merely modifies the amount of time you can deliver it in. Your total healing remains the same over X, but can be delivered in X - Haste%. This creates a situation where your mana drops faster (assuming chain casting).

Crit however does increase raw power, and due to synergy, even now, it is theoretically the best output to have it equal to mastery, on an investment level since it increases your mastery shields as well.

Post patch, mastery will still be a cheaper investment stat wise than either haste or crit, so it just makes sense to invest in it, since you get more bang for the buck out of it.

That said, like spirit, crit should be adjusted to comfort. If your overheals are low, adjust crit up. If they are high, adjust it down. Based purely on mathematics, I would not recommend gemming for either crit nor haste, since mastery is the cheaper investment, however reforging spirit or haste (not mastery) to crit can be a valid path up to your mastery %.

The theoretical stat priority would look something like:

Int > Mastery >= Crit (comfort)
Spirt to comfort, Haste to breakpoint
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
It's a scaling nerf as well as the 2% base nerf. Equates to about 16.6~%.

If you have 30% (12% base + 18% gear) it will end up at 25% (10% base + 15% gear).


I really am curious as to why there hasn't been any more feedback on this. Holy paladins are getting a solid nerf to their mastery while classes like priests are getting the typical (nerf+buff= nothing changes) and monks have insanely overpowered 4 sets.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Quite a bit was discussed when it came about. We just didn't get up in arms about it like the other classes. We adjust and go on. But keep in mind, 100k heal, 30% mastery buff becomes a 25k shield instead. Since we "layer" our shields up to 1/3 of "our" max hp, it really won't affect us in the grand scheme of things.

As an example. In group settings.

I have 450k HP. I beacon tank, and group heal. I pop EF on tank and get some goop heals on him. after a couple heals, he has a MAX shield of 150k. My total mastery is irrelevant. He can't go past 150k shield (1/3 my HP).

This will probably reduce our over heals a bit, as well as our relative healing power.

I'm not saying it isn't a nerf, but it won't be as bad as it seems.

Another factor to consider is the prominence of Crit gear in T15. The reduction of Mastery specific gear means that we have a better equalibriem with Crit, which is theoretically an equivalent if not better stat.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
0
and monks have insanely overpowered 4 sets.

curious to know why you think it's overpowered at all, let alone insanely overpowered

do you understand how powerful it is to be able to continually put little absorbs over a whole bunch of people and reset the expiry on them so easily? if you're good at that, you effectively get to cockblock monks and druids for a large % of the time. and you're saying that a 4-piece that reduces the cooldown on tft from 45 seconds to 40 is insanely overpowered?

confused :(
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
05/20/2013 08:51 AMPosted by Bushmills
and monks have insanely overpowered 4 sets.

curious to know why you think it's overpowered at all, let alone insanely overpowered

do you understand how powerful it is to be able to continually put little absorbs over a whole bunch of people and reset the expiry on them so easily? if you're good at that, you effectively get to cockblock monks and druids for a large % of the time. and you're saying that a 4-piece that reduces the cooldown on tft from 45 seconds to 40 is insanely overpowered?

confused :(


Overpowered is a matter of perspective. And by perspective, I mean mean whether the fight favors your spec or mine :p

You called it right though. "Little absorbs" is correct. We can pop lots of them, and we can shut down healing for monks and druids (and shaman) as long as "sizable" raid damage isn't coming in. Once that threshold is breached though, paladin healing isn't fast enough and you see the other specs just shine. Or if the spread is too wide, it makes us look like gimps.

Basically we all have our strengths, we all have our weaknesses.

I personally don't think monk 4pc is overpowered, nor did I think the pally IH was overpowered, however I do understand why others got that impression. Investment-wise it was the cheapest secondary stat for us to get, and hence the smartest buy. Combined with the mana caps (300k), it became the only viable choice and it changed not only gameplay, but paladin role. We were not only tank healers anymore.

After the Discpriest nerf, the middle of the pack Hpal, became the front runner healer in ToES/HoF. In ToT, it was significantly more spreadout, because of fight mechanics, but as they say in the Army "we fight the last war, not the current," they had to make some changes, and that led to the Mastery: IH nerfs.

Hopefully, overall gameply won't be affected too badly.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
18095
Thank you for your insightful posts Deadsecsi <3
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Thank you for your insightful posts Deadsecsi <3


I try.

I get it wrong a lot but I try.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
05/20/2013 08:51 AMPosted by Bushmills
curious to know why you think it's overpowered at all, let alone insanely overpowered


I do apologize, I was more referencing the 2pc bonus. Which is quite sizable in comparison to a buff to an almost useless Daybreak proc.

By feedback, I was more curious about how to adjust to the changes to minmax than to complain about a nerf I can do nothing about. However, after last night, its pretty basic that I'm just going to keep on keeping on as I have been as not much has changed play style wise.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
05/22/2013 07:58 AMPosted by Ceresc
curious to know why you think it's overpowered at all, let alone insanely overpowered


I do apologize, I was more referencing the 2pc bonus. Which is quite sizable in comparison to a buff to an almost useless Daybreak proc.

By feedback, I was more curious about how to adjust to the changes to minmax than to complain about a nerf I can do nothing about. However, after last night, its pretty basic that I'm just going to keep on keeping on as I have been as not much has changed play style wise.


Honestly I don't think much has changed at all. The overall effect really just adjusted our absorbs down a hair. Since we rely on stacking a lot of small absorbs (comparatively), and they didn't change our absorb cap, I don't think there's really much change except in solo play (I did notice it there).

I played with the HR to Daybreak proc a bit. With proper stacking we gain power, and it does compensate on the absorbs lost. My quick test was Jin Rok LFR (yah yah yah, I know), but I've got good observational data from that fight. Once I factored in the overheals, power level seemed same/better. I'll know more on Saturday. Last week I was averaging 105k hps on him, lets see what this week looks like.
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90 Human Paladin
3420
Basically, all the patch did was

1) Nerf our absorb shield throughput slightly
2) Indirectly nerf our mana longevity by forcing us to use HR x 2 + Holy Shock for maximum GCD efficiency, compared to HR + Holy Shock right off the bat.

With that said, stack more spirit and keep to a mastery build if you still have one.
Switching to crit did little to improve my performance, if at all. Felt more or less the same with a mastery build. Crit is definitely a viable stat on par with mastery, or close to at least, after the nerfs. Previously mastery was so far ahead that people running crit were just gimping their throughput for no reason at all, at least now we have choices.
Edited by Pospospos on 5/22/2013 1:53 PM PDT
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