Darrowmere PvE is DEAD! Please Read!!

100 Night Elf Druid
8225
I hope so Currency I am working towards it. I have been on Darrowmere since just after the release of Cata and got my toon to 90 and started raiding, now the GM of the guild I've been in along time and since the release of MoP I seen the good players get better & faster leveling & gearing to theym forseeing this servers death along time ago, so they changed realms.
The server is on its last PvE leg so to speak and I as a person that has been on Darrowmere since my trial account because this is where Blizzard put me. Feels my account transfer should be this on them, & for player that pays 6 months at a time I dont feel its too much to ask.
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90 Orc Death Knight
Vex
10895
the server i am on is much worse than darrowmere, theres like 5,000 items on the auction house


The issue is very apparent on Darrowmere along with MANY other servers. Darrowmere is definitely not the worst, but it is still pretty bad. It's an issue that is making the game not as fun as it can/should be. It would be nice to see server merges by the next expansion release.
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90 Human Paladin
6490
merican i think they should do that now. something like crz where maybe not be able to use the ah and all of that from other servers but have it set up where you could pug for tot for low pop servers off of other low pop servers like have 5 servers together or something like that
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15155
Pugging in general is hard for this tier. Horridon is a pug breaker on normal because you have to meet certain AoE dps requirements and then have the healing/tanking to back up that DPS. Those looking for suggestions on how to down Horridon should head over to the Raid and Dungeon forums and ask for some tips on how to handle it in a pug group.

Obvious answer is to use Heroism on the third door (Most annoying of all).


You hit it right on the head Alaric. I am replying to this from the point of view of one of the players that xfered off realm. High pop realm has meant a better overall pug environment for myself but just because I can personally pug a 1/13H or 2/13H doesnt mean everyone can. I have unfortunately had the displeasure of getting stuck on Horridon in an Area 52 pugs several times. The majority of pugs fail at that point.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15155
Waiting for blizzard to offer free transfers is a waste of time. As someone stated earlier, either pay for your xfer, reroll, or take a break. There is also a 3rd less appealing option....try and improve the current community.

I personally rerolled to give area 52 and horde a try. For me I am finding that the grass is much greener on this side of the fence. This won't be the case for most of the Darrowmere population. I have raided with many players over the years and most I have to admit would be part of the group on area 52 forever stuck on horridon in a pug. I am not saying that they couldn't improve, most are just unwilling to and consider themselves very skilled players.

Also love how there are only like 10 players that read the darrowmere forums and 5 of those players are from other realms.
Edited by Meeks on 5/13/2013 4:22 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
10270
Meekah, thank you for backing me up on these points.
just because I can personally pug a 1/13H or 2/13H doesnt mean everyone can

For me I am finding that the grass is much greener on this side of the fence. This won't be the case for most of the Darrowmere population.


The BIGGEST point I was trying to make is that skill comes before success. I said it before and I'll say it again:
You also have expectations that are set too high about what would happen if you changed realms. I'm trying to provide a bit of a reality check with my replies.
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100 Human Paladin
14435
For me I am finding that the grass is much greener on this side of the fence. This won't be the case for most of the Darrowmere population.


Well I can't speak for "most of the Darrowmere population". But I can speak for the people I know who have moved to other realms and all of them are happier on their new realms. Each of them are now are raiding more often, more successfully, going deeper into ToT than they ever did (or likely would) on Darrowmere and are better geared now having acquired T15 gear more quickly after the switch to their new realms.

Skill is important. It's an asset. But let's be clear. On its own it is not enough to provide a fulfilling raid experience. You got to have someone to play with. And on Darrowmere that is the issue
Edited by Jederos on 5/13/2013 5:45 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
10270
05/13/2013 05:41 PMPosted by Jederos
Skill is important. It's an asset.

That's a huge understatement.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15155
05/13/2013 05:41 PMPosted by Jederos
Each of them are now are raiding more often, more successfully, going deeper into ToT than they ever did (or likely would) on Darrowmere


I may have over generalized on my previous statement but it is not that off. I don't entirely agree with that statement. Yes I personally know many players all doing well off realm but its hard not too as most of those people I have on real ID and were good even when they were on Darrowmere. I know many players/guilds that are doing the same as they were on Darrowmere as far as progression goes and even many that are doing worse (I will not mention names). My statements were more to the effect of extinguishing the "City of Gold" visions that people might be having. With like anything you get out of this game what you put into it.

Now, this is not to say that they are not happier. They very well may be and that is all that matters in the end. If you have thought about transferring more than a handful of times, than a transfer is probably the right thing for you to do. Make sure you make a good choice about what realm you choose. I personally copied the wowprogress data into an excel spreadsheet and then started eliminating realms based on certain things I found desirable such as 24/7 access to appletini's and skinny jean boutiques on every corner.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9690

I don't think it's due to a lack of active players as much as it is a lack of serious players. There are realms with a LOT fewer players than Darrowmere.
...
There would be plenty of people worth pug'ing if more people on this realm gave a damn about their personal performance instead of how many bosses they have downed, read the how-to-play-your class-&-spec sticky threads on the forums, and tried to improve their game instead of just playing it.


I've pugged around this server on various toons over the past few years and I think this is right on. Most folks I have encountered in pugs just don't know all that much about their class. Also seems most folks haven't done much research on encounter mechanics. Blizzard stated that with MOP Normals were intended to be harder and LFR tuned toward inexperienced / pugs. Raiding is supposed be be challenging but rewarding. Your rewards will most likely increase as your effort (research, valor, rep rewards), skill, and knowledge of class and encounter mechanics increase. These are things we all have control over.

Skill is important. It's an asset. But let's be clear. On its own it is not enough to provide a fulfilling raid experience. You got to have someone to play with. And on Darrowmere that is the issue


Having a warm body to fill your raid spot is not enough if that person isn't motivated to improve. Check wowprogress, there are plenty of groups making attempts on Throne.

The server is on its last PvE leg so to speak and I as a person that has been on Darrowmere since my trial account because this is where Blizzard put me. Feels my account transfer should be this on them, & for player that pays 6 months at a time I dont feel its too much to ask.


That's probably not going to happen.
Edited by Daoshi on 5/13/2013 10:01 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
14435
05/13/2013 09:34 PMPosted by Daoshi
Having a warm body to fill your raid spot is not enough if that person isn't motivated to improve.


Not sure if you read my post or not but I never said nor implied that a warm body was sufficient for raiding.

Check wowprogress, there are plenty of groups making attempts on Throne.


Yeah and only about 4 groups (guilds) are making any progress to speak of. Second, following from the first, compared to lots of other other realms and esp the other big realms to which most people are transferring Darrowmere's way behind in terms of progress. Third your pointing to wowprogress just bolsters the point we're making, namely that Darrowmere is an inferior raiding server, be it for pugs or guilds. Fourth, those are guilds not pugs. Just to bring you up to speed on the thread, we're talking about putting together pugs not the lack of guilds making attempts at ToT, although both are clearly lacking.
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90 Human Rogue
11015
Raiding on Darrowmere can easily be summed up by the simple fact that people think kills are easy to come by. LFR has introduced people to raid mechanics but it's completely toxic to new potential raiders. Kills are not easily given, they are earned and too often people are discouraged from wiping.

The other issue is people on this server are not given a good environment to succeed. How often do you have a person enter the raid and you see them die to some sort of simple mechanic and instantly assume they are terrible. Instead, groom those players and hope one day they can be excellent players and that all falls onto leadership from the people running the show.
Everyone has the willingness to learn their class, they just need some direction and a vote of confidence.
A raid group is only as good as their weakest link. Help the weaker players improve and you will be better off in the long run.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9690
I read your post and the entire thread a few times before I posted. Perhaps you misread my post. What I am getting at is that normal modes are tuned to be much more difficult for pugs this tier. So they aren't necessarily designed to be easily pugged, I.e. more challenging, less forgiving mechanics. The lead encounter designer was on a podcast earlier today talking about this and how they hope to address it in the future. So there is a higher skill cap this tier. If players don't have a good knowledge of their class and encounter mechanics, the group is going to struggle. People are easily discouraged and aren't pugging 10N as much. Darrowmere has a smallish population. So yeah it's somewhat more difficult to pug 10N because there are less players who are able to do it. Doesn't mean that PVE is "dead" on the server.

And you will notice many of the groups that are 1/12 have several non guildies in their group and pugged several raiders. Again... partly a result of more difficult normal mode encounters and that there aren't a ton of players with the knowledge, and skills to down these bosses.

Having a warm body to fill your raid spot is not enough if that person isn't motivated to improve.


Not sure if you read my post or not but I never said nor implied that a warm body was sufficient for raiding.

Check wowprogress, there are plenty of groups making attempts on Throne.


Yeah and only about 4 groups (guilds) are making any progress to speak of. Second, following from the first, compared to lots of other other realms and esp the other big realms to which most people are transferring Darrowmere's way behind in terms of progress. Third your pointing to wowprogress just bolsters the point we're making, namely that Darrowmere is an inferior raiding server, be it for pugs or guilds. Fourth, those are guilds not pugs. Just to bring you up to speed on the thread, we're talking about putting together pugs not the lack of guilds making attempts at ToT, although both are clearly lacking.
Edited by Daoshi on 5/15/2013 3:44 PM PDT
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Phay the only reason you even debate this issue is because you're in a guild with experienced players that you have ran with for years and you know I know this because I was in the raid group for a bit. I know for a fact that I am one of the best healers on the server when I have gear good enough for the situation. But Darrowmere has too many guilds that have their own little "clicks" (like you guys) which is completely understandable and I would like that also. And because of that everyone else has to pug and how can you pug when the server is dead and dying with no pugs worth a damn or no pugs period? All we are saying is this server is way too low in population and we need new people who aren't in a "dedicated raid team" on our server before it becomes even more horrible for the people who aren't in a "click" like you. Of course you don't think it's horrible because you raid with Clint and all those others for years now who are good players. I can't pay 25 dollars to take my toon to a different server because I now have 7 90's and the rest 85+ and I do not want to split them apart.. (I play them all because it's just too boring to play one toon with nothing to do) & I need myself to help myself because what if I took a toon to another server and had the same issue? I would have to pay to come back too? I can't take that chance and don't want to start a new toon on a better server :( Plus.. I like my guildies, especially Flux because he is down to earth and (much like me) he plays for fun and tries to have fun with what he does.
Edited by Lifegiverr on 5/15/2013 7:48 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
10270
This use of the word "clique" is really annoying to me, and not just because it was misspelled.

I'm not online as much as I used to be because there's only so much time in a day and I have a wedding in 5 weeks, and since we are scheduled to raid 4 nights a week and raiding takes a lot of prep work, the vast majority of my limited time in-game now is spent raiding and doing dailies so I can have runes for bonus rolls.

The same can be said about a lot of members on our team. The term clique implies you try to exclude others. We just have a ton of sh*t going on.

I used to have time to do all the things you do with guildies like doing old raids, earning achievements, running dungeons, leveling multiple toons, but I just don't anymore. I have friends in-game that aren't on our team and I regularly chat with them, but I don't enough time to do more than that most of the time.

Should I be sorry for having a busy career and life outside of WoW because it means I can't spend time with more people in the game doing things other than raiding and raid prep? I don't think so.

Does that mean our group of friends should be called a clique in the derogatory sense? I don't think so.

Real life comes before WoW.
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90 Orc Death Knight
Vex
10895
these threads have been getting interestingly more dramatic. I should get more popcorn.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9690
these threads have been getting interestingly more dramatic. I should get more popcorn.


*passes popcorn*
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100 Draenei Priest
16180
Having played on five servers with both factions over the span of 5-6 years, I can tell you that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I can also tell you that Darrowmere is nowhere close to being dead PvE-wise.

The server I would call my "home", Smolderthorn, has maybe two stable raid guilds and that's it. If you're not a high-performing raider on horde side, gg. Enjoy sitting in Orgrimmar (or Stormwind) doing absolutely zero raiding beyond LFR.

Tichondrius, ranked somewhere around the 14th best server, is not all sparkles and sunshine either. It's true there are many top ranking alliance guilds there, but you also have to put up with the server being PvP and having a 1:0.66 horde to alliance population. On top of that, you also have 5-20 minute queue times to login during peak hours, and pugging in trade is a nightmare, given that 99% of trade chat is PvP and PvP/gold-selling services.

Now, that's not the case for every realm out there. But I guarantee if you're not doing well on Darrowmere (in pugs or on a raid team), you're not going to suddenly flourish by realm transferring to a high pop server. No guild on Malfurion, Stormrage, Kil'jaeden (etc) is going to carry a bad, inexperienced player. Period.

The reason the "grass is greener" on the other side is because they choose to mow and water their lawns. By taking the "easy way" out and realm transferring or quitting, you're essentially helping the grass here turn brown. Which brings us back to what Gtower mentions earlier:

The other issue is people on this server are not given a good environment to succeed. How often do you have a person enter the raid and you see them die to some sort of simple mechanic and instantly assume they are terrible. Instead, groom those players and hope one day they can be excellent players and that all falls onto leadership from the people running the show.
Everyone has the willingness to learn their class, they just need some direction and a vote of confidence.
A raid group is only as good as their weakest link. Help the weaker players improve and you will be better off in the long run.


Don't like that Darrowmere has a smaller pool of raiders to pick from? Find the ones that are willing to put forth the effort of learning/improving and help them do so!

"Be the change you wish to see in the world."

P.S. Blizzard isn't going to offer free realm transfers from low pop to high pop servers. Ever. You can keep dreaming, or you can slowly transfer your characters one-by-one over time rather than en masse.
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100 Night Elf Druid
8225
I as a paying subscriber feel I should have the same experience in this game on all servers, and yes people are different but if you put enough people in one area the chances of finding groups that are alike are a lot higher. THAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS THREAD. & the point of the matter is the population on Darrowmere is dwindling and the population of good geared 90's have taken the blunt of the loss.
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100 Draenei Priest
16180
As a college student who has to pay tuition (in one form or another), I feel like all tuition prices should be equal (whether or not they are in-state or out-of-state). But that's not going to happen. When I chose to attend an out-of-state college, I quickly learned that I couldn't afford it and I dropped out. I didn't go to the financial aide office to whine that it wasn't fair I had to pay three times more money than the local kids. Instead, I got a job, started to pay off some of the debt, and re-enrolled to a college a could afford to attend.

TL;DR: Not everything in life is "fair" or "equal". Whining and complaining like you're entitled to anything will not make any situation better. Sometimes you have to make the change yourself.
Edited by Aaristole on 5/15/2013 10:32 PM PDT
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