500 Item level but I can't get past 50k dps?

100 Human Paladin
13145
I do exactly what noxxic and CLC ret tells me to do except that I have Holy avenger instead of wrath only because I kill things faster. There is just no reason that I should be so low except when I'm on burst when noxxic says I should be around 100k-112k dps. What exactly am I doing wrong.

Here is what noxxic says:

The Retribution Paladin rotation involves building and spending Holy Power. Build Holy Power with Hammer of Wrath, Exorcism, Crusader Strike, and Judgment. Spend Holy Power on Inquisition and Templar's Verdict. Maintaining Inquisition is your top priority with extra Holy Power spent on Templar's Verdict. Prioritize Holy Power builders over Templar's Verdict unless you have 5 Holy Power. Also, watch for The Art of War procs that reset the cooldown on Exorcism and use those procs immediately. Add Hammer of Wrath to the rotation when your target is below 20% Health.

Can someone please explain what I am doing wrong plus I have all my stuff enchanted and I have all gems so that's not the problem.

Looking for any help thank you for your time.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20200
Hit your head against wall until everything you read on Noxxic is gone, and your dps should go up. Don't use light's hammer for single target.

Make sure CLCret is set up correctly and follow it.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
13145
LOL! Ok thank you and how much dps do you do? You seem to have a lot of experience based on your 514 item level =P
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
You're using Noxxic; mistake number one. Noxxic's projections, I believe, are ripped straight from SimCraft's data, which is run based on a Patchwerk-style encounter. Since nothing has worked like Patchwerk since Patchwerk, data based on that particular encounter model is inherently faulty. Check the sticky here for a better rundown on the spec.

Your haste is also low - as in, really, really low, especially with a Spark. I don't think that I've had so little haste since Heart of Fear opened in LFR. You should also be using Dancing Steel, not Windsong, on your weapon.

Strictly speaking, it is most likely a rotational issue. You say you're following CLC - how closely? Are you actively avoiding, say, Judgment or Exorcism when not in melee range and it's telling you to use Crusader Strike? Are you stacking Holy Avenger with Avenging Wrath, and Guardian of Ancient Kings when available?
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14055
Uninstall CLCret and get good at knowing the actual rotation yourself, you'll have an increase in damage.

Using addons to determine your rotation is stupid. We use a priority based system, get used to it so that it's second nature instead of needing to look at what lights up, if you don't do that you'll fail all heroic mechanics.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20200
If he already doesn't do the rotation well, not using the thing that's helping him learn the rotation is a bad idea. He's not just going to magically do it right and he's clearly not at risk of having to learn heroic mechanics.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
9970
I second the suggestion to practice the rotation, although practicing without CLC isn't necessarily more helpful. Having an addon tell you what to do is helpful, but not by itself enough to actually do well - if you're hesitating, or even it just takes too long to process what CLCRet says and then press the button, you're effectively introducing "mental latency" which slows down your whole rotation and negatively affects overall DPS.

I got a Naga mouse a few months back, and rearranged my whole keybind scheme to make use of it. My DPS was *terrible* for two weeks afterward, because I just plain didn't have the muscle memory to actually press the right buttons in a timely manner.
Edited by Ravicana on 5/12/2013 4:03 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14055
If he already doesn't do the rotation well, not using the thing that's helping him learn the rotation is a bad idea. He's not just going to magically do it right and he's clearly not at risk of having to learn heroic mechanics.


Actually through practice you do "magically" do it right. You look up what the priority is, find bindings that work for you so that you can easily monitor the cooldowns initially then after a some practice all of a sudden you get better and better.

Using an addon like this does nothing but decrease awareness and potentially even create a dependency, you're not learning what to do next, you're watching for what the addon tells you to do.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20200
And that clearly didn't work for him, which is why he ended up with CLCret, which is very good at helping people learn.
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Paladin
17310
Using an addon like this does nothing but decrease awareness and potentially even create a dependency, you're not learning what to do next, you're watching for what the addon tells you to do.


Yeah, if you use it improperly you certainly do create a dependency. Just like any addon, tell me do you wait until DBM screams at you to do something every time before you do it?

Or do you use it as a tool to assist you in a raid encounter?

That's the difference between dependency and simply using a tool.

If the OP is seriously doing 50K DPS at that gear level then it's a rotational issue, guess what CLCRet excels at if set up and used properly?

Teaching people the rotation.

Telling him to go without it when he's already having issues isn't exactly good advice, it's just your bias towards the addon.
Edited by Cadenbrie on 5/12/2013 4:19 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Also, you have no set bonuses - forgot to mention that in my first post. LFR 4pT14 is superior to 502 off-set gear in almost every situation. We've been lucky and had really strong set bonuses this expansion, and you'll typically want to hold onto them until you can transition into the next tier's set bonuses.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14055
05/12/2013 04:17 PMPosted by Cadenbrie
Using an addon like this does nothing but decrease awareness and potentially even create a dependency, you're not learning what to do next, you're watching for what the addon tells you to do.


Yeah, if you use it improperly you certainly do create a dependency. Just like any addon, tell me do you wait until DBM screams at you to do something every time before you do it?

Or do you use it as a tool to assist you in a raid encounter?

That's the difference between dependency and simply using a tool.

If the OP is seriously doing 50K DPS at that gear level then it's a rotational issue, guess what CLCRet excels at if set up and used properly?

Teaching people the rotation.

Telling him to go without it when he's already having issues isn't exactly good advice, it's just your bias towards the addon.


I've never used CLCRet and I never will, in BC and wrath I used addons to help me with my rotation and when I stopped doing them I not only went from being a middle of the pack raider numbers wise to the top but also stopped dying to mechanics because I was trying to see what I should do next on my addon.

If you read the OP he's already using the addon and it's not working, most likely because he's worried too much about it and isn't actually learning what to do next so when the addon tells him to crusader strike at a time where he shouldn't actually be in melee with a boss it !@#$s him up. As it will constantly for anybody doing the fights in this tier on normal or heroic.

As for the comment about DBM, the only thing I use DBM for is mechanics that can't be reliably tracked in my head, such as when I was doing heroic jin'rohk I watched when static burst was going out so the death knight and I could co-ordinate him AMSing to negate the mechanic. Things like that.

Something like a rotation isn't actually just a string of abilities you can do in a set order when you play a melee especially when you're doing any fight with mechanics due to the fact that there are times where you can't attack, times where doing things unrelated to doing damage are better and times where you have other far more important things to worry about.

If the OP wants to increase his DPS he needs to look up the ret priority system, sit at a dummy for 10-15 minutes until he can get it down cycling from one guardian to the next without missing anything in the rotation. Doing so with the addon won't teach him anything, but doing it without will teach him to monitor roughly when the ability comes up so that in a situation in raiding he won't have to think twice nor look anywhere on his screen except the boss and mechanics coming towards him.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
19495
You see the thing with an addon like CLCret is that it does allow people to get very lazy with stuff in the game that matter more than LOLEPEENZ dps. Stuff like staying alive. I understand what Marty is getting at. I mean how hard is it to follow a rotation? There is no reason to have an entire addon package for pressing a few buttons.

Look at it like this: You can spend an entire school year pounding math equations into your calculator to get the answers... great job! But then your instructor wants you to show the work behind questions on how to solve them. You are now SOL because you depended on your calculator to do the thinking for you, instead of learning how to do it from square one and get it over with.

I see where everyone is coming from, just different views. And yes it is a great addon for watching personal buff/debuff timers and cooldowns. But I would personally never use it as a rotation crutch, simply because rotations are not in any way shape or form a challenging part of this game. And depending on an addon like that, as Marty said, WILL impair your ability to keep track of more important stuff and not being a one dimensional Paladin.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
To CLC, I'm of both minds; whenever something comes along to radically change our priority, I'll sit with it on a dummy and mindlessly mash the foretold button and work in my cooldowns until I get the flow. Once I have that, I can safely turn it off. And something along those lines would be my advice. Sit on a dummy for as much time as you can spare, and follow CLC; then start moving, just strafing at first, then practice running out of melee range and start getting a feel for what to do when you're out of melee and CLC tells you to CS.

Because it's a tool, nothing more: used correctly, it can be of significant benefit; used poorly, it can be of significant detriment. Rather than decry its use altogether, we should advocate that it be used more intelligently. For some, myself included, it can actually help raid awareness; when I first started using it, it dragged my vision away from my action bar and into the middle of my screen, where all the action really is.
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Paladin
17310
It is a good tool, all the points being brought up against it are situations where the tool is being abused or misused.

When used correctly, just like any other good addon , it will be helpful and not a hindrance.

And when used correctly it is very valuable in helping people learn the priority system of Retribution.

Calling it a crutch is simply ego talking.

As for the comment about DBM, the only thing I use DBM for is mechanics that can't be reliably tracked in my head


So you use it as a tool but you don't depend on it, like I said. Fancy that.
Edited by Cadenbrie on 5/12/2013 4:57 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
19495
How is calling it a crutch part of ego?

Crutch- A device used for assistance or support; a prop

So how is that egotistical when it is solid truth? If you have found a new way to use the addon in any other way than assistance in deriving information then please, do share.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20355
I use clcret, sup :)
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
05/12/2013 05:09 PMPosted by Codez
How is calling it a crutch part of ego?


It's the context in which "crutch" is used that points to it being derogatory, and arguing against it being part of one's ego. Essentially, "I don't rely on that addon, therefore I'm better and people that do use it are bad."
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14055
It is a good tool, all the points being brought up against it are situations where the tool is being abused or misused.

When used correctly, just like any other good addon , it will be helpful and not a hindrance.

And when used correctly it is very valuable in helping people learn the priority system of Retribution.

Calling it a crutch is simply ego talking.

As for the comment about DBM, the only thing I use DBM for is mechanics that can't be reliably tracked in my head


So you use it as a tool but you don't depend on it, like I said. Fancy that.


Difference being a rotation can easily be internalized. Some mechanics on boss fights can't.

Telling somebody to use an addon to tell them what to do so their DPS goes up is stupid, if you want to do better DPS learn and internalize your rotation, you'l improve as a player drastically because you will never need to so much as think about it. It's just second nature.

The addons like this ensure that it requires at least some attention. If you're literally not using the addon then why have it, and if you use it then you're wasting focus on it that could be used on DBM tracking things that can't be second nature or on helping your fellow raiders, or even on y'know movement and generally doing boss mechanics.

05/12/2013 05:17 PMPosted by Grôgnárd
How is calling it a crutch part of ego?


It's the context in which "crutch" is used that points to it being derogatory, and arguing against it being part of one's ego. Essentially, "I don't rely on that addon, therefore I'm better and people that do use it are bad."


I'm not saying people who use the addon are bad, but the addon itself is bad practice. The players are fully capable of learning how to do rotations without addons but they're too lazy or have excuses for whatever reason, that's what's bad.
Edited by Martymcfly on 5/12/2013 5:25 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
12160
Stop calling it a rotation. It's not a rotation. We have a priority and it is completely legitimate to have an addon in your back pocket to help you with your priority, especially one as highly customizable as clclinfo (ret).

As with any addon, do not follow it blindly. People tunnel, its nature, don't blame the addon.

Did I mention we don't have a rotation? Okay, well in case I didn't we don't have a rotation, we have a priority system.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]