Talents to keep Warriors in range

100 Human Paladin
10545
Intro
A while ago, I made a topic here about spiffing up Charge with a mechanic change along with some complimentary talents that would make Charge a bit more formidable in PvP without making it uncounterable. Now I'm continuing with some hopefully interesting sounding ideas of talents designed to help alleviate the issue most Warriors face, getting kited. As I've said before, I find Warriors to be the easiest class to kite, both as Holy and Ret. I'm sure it's not their fault, since a lot of classes just have the toolkits to get away from Warriors. I'm sure they get the uptime they need in 3s and 5s, but I find it a bit unfair to Warriors how much support they need in order to do their job.

I attempted to broaden their use by adding a small amount of dps increase so that Warriors would use them in pve. I tried to balance the effects so that any Warrior could find a use for them in both PvP and PvE. I hope I did a decent job. Let me know what you think.

Chain Leash
10 yd range
30 sec cooldown
Chains the target to you, increasing your critical strike chance on that target by 5% for 8 seconds. If the target moves further than 10 yards from you, they get pulled to your location, ending the effect.

I just find this to be a very interesting effect. It's like a Warrior's personal Ursa's Vortex to keep an enemy within reach and will hard counter ditching skills like Disengage and Blink. The 5% crit offers a little incentive for enemy players to try and break the effect early, even if they prefer to be in melee. What worries me the most about it is if the Warrior decides to Heroic Leap or Charge another target, which would fling the chained target a pretty long distance, although I also think that would be pretty hilarious. I gave it a 30 second CD so it couldn't be used every Charge.

Slicing Air
10 Rage
Increases the range of your melee attacks by 10 yards and increases the damage of your area of effect attacks by 10% for 10 seconds.

This extends your reach so players have to kite much farther away from you, making you almost half ranged class! This talent would also affect special melee attacks, like Hamstring and Pummel, although I don't think I want it affecting AoE skills like Whirlwind and Thunderclap, although I'm still debating that. Regardless, this skill is the obvious choice for AoE situations in PvE and PvP, which is why I had to put a Rage cost on it. Basically, you need to Whirlwind 4 times in the duration to get a dps increase. However, free AoE skills like Bladestorm and Dragon Roar will experience a flat damage increase, which forced me to keep the damage increase as low as 10%.

Heroic Endurance
30 Rage
5 sec cooldown
Reduces damage taken by 30% and increases the damage of your next autoattack by 100%. This effect lasts for 5 seconds or until an autoattack is made.

I made this one specifically for Warriors who think they will get kited regardless of their efforts and want a tool that will reduce the penalty of being successfully kited. To prevent it from being spammed, I put a 30 Rage cost, forcing the Warrior to eventually get back in melee range to generate some more Rage. I also forced the skill to end once you get a hit off so people wouldn't treat it as a 5 second CD defense skill. It will reduce your active DPS to zero while it's active, so it should only be used during down time. In raids, I could see this being used right before a big attack from a boss. While it may seem very poewrful at what it does, I believe DPS should be focusing on survival, even if it reduces their damage and this skill thinks along those lines. For tanks, I think Shield Block will mitigate more damage as well as allow the tank to keep attacking, which I think will balance out the reduced cost of this skill when compared to Shield Block.

I had to compare this Talent to the Rogue's Elusiveness talent, which is 30% damage reduction for a skill that already is designed to reduce damage taken with no CD and a 20 Energy cost that lasts the whole 5 seconds all the time. However, Rogues don't have Defensive Stance, which the possibility of using both at once balances this talent being a little weaker than its Rogue counterpart. The 100% additional autoattack damage was purely to alleviate the inevitable dps loss from using this skill in both PvP (for burst afterwards) and PvE. I'm actually worried the extra damage will outperform Heroic Strike while costing less and having a 5 second CD. I might have to think of another effect, but I do want an offensive property for this skill.
Edited by Líena on 5/17/2013 1:55 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
5210
Really strong ideas.

Chain Leash: I like it, but I think with leap or a second charge this would become a bit too strong, instead maybe you could have the reverse and pull you to their location, to "stick" to someone if they use their disengage mechanic. (note you could perhaps add a little gimmick where if you used a spell reflect you could pull them with you or something like that)

Slicing air, sounds good, no real complaints about it in terms of gameplay, just seems... I un-warrior-ish. I like that my warrior is a hard melee class.. he goes around bashing skulls with his bare hands, or a huge sword, I just don't like how easy that is to counter.

Heroic Endurance just sounds too powerful. Warrior survivability isn't great right now, but if you use that + D stance alone thats a 65% DR, next patch it'd be 75%. Would you remove Shield Wall from dps warriors to compensate? What about prot warriors
Combined with a healer + second wind + innate plate armour values we'd be back to unkillable below 35% and OP, which would give us just another reason to be whacked with the nerf bat again.

Good ideas all up, apart from the first one however far too radical for me to see bliz taking a look at this expac.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
Heroic Endurance
so... what exactly is supposed to stop Prot Warriors from activating this every 5s in PvE and turning off auto attack (since their autos do nothing)?

Threat isn't an issue, Shield Slam/Revenge/crit blocks would generate enough rage to give this at least 80%+ uptime, so....

talents work for all three specs. :l
05/17/2013 03:30 AMPosted by Derpybear
Heroic Endurance just sounds too powerful. Warrior survivability isn't great right now, but if you use that + D stance alone thats a 65% DR, next patch it'd be 75%.
That's not how DR works. All damage reduction in this game works multiplicatively

so with Defensive Stance in 5.3 (25% baseline), you would actually have 1 (base damage) x 0.5 (heroic endurance) x 0.75 (defensive stance) = 0.375, which is a 62.5% DR, not a 75% DR.
Edited by Kangarooster on 5/17/2013 4:08 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
5210
so... what exactly is supposed to stop Prot Warriors from activating this every 5s in PvE and turning off auto attack (since their autos do nothing)?


Missed the part where it reduces active dps to 0, meaning you can't cast anything while it's up. Regardless it would be too strong on tanks as you'd just drop your abilities and pop this between cd's. Pretty much makes Shield block and Shield Barrier completely usless too.

so with Defensive Stance in 5.3 (25% baseline), you would actually have 1 (base damage) x 0.5 (heroic endurance) x 0.75 (defensive stance) = 0.375, which is a 62.5% DR, not a 75% DR.


Fair call, however regardless of the math, my point still stands. especially if you include pvp resil.
Edited by Derpybear on 5/17/2013 10:17 AM PDT
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100 Orc Warrior
5695
Heroic Endurance
20 Rage
5 sec cooldown
Reduces damage taken by 50% and increases the damage of your next autoattack by 100%. This effect lasts for 5 seconds or until an autoattack is made.


This i would serve more as a defensive cd then anything else, no one would use it for the increased auto attack damage. then would use it when they are getting bursted on and use a /stopattack macro.

It might be better if it just increased auto hit damage is all, however, for fury it might be a little too strong due to crazed beserker (215% auto hit while enraged is like a main hand RB hit) But i guess the downside is you can spend 20 rage and have the auto hit miss, which would be annoying.
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100 Human Paladin
10545
For Chain Leash, the opponent needs to be chained to you, not the other way around :P
It would acutally limit your options while active, meaning you couldn't switch your target if it was far away. And pulling a target far away by Charging something far away wouldn't be a terrible mechanic, seeing how DKs get something like that baseline with less requirements.

The idea for Slicing Air was swinging those weapons so furiously that it would basically sunder the air and make it... I don't know... cut the opponent and produce the effect you wanted somehow.

And I could see Heroic Endurance being an obvious choice for tanks who have excessive threat and it does seem to overshadow most of their other defensive skills. Remember I balanced this skill around Elusiveness, which was probably my mistake. Rogues don't have Defensive Stance, so it probably took that into consideration when designing it.

I think I'll be dropping the damage reduction to 30% and increasing the Rage cost to 30 Rage. That will reduce the amount of times it can be used in a row to 4 times with the +20 Rage glyph. Sure that means 20 seconds max of uptime, but that is also 20 seconds of zero DPS, which is the trade off. It will also allow Shield Block to compete, if not beat it, since it reduces all physical damage from the front you take by 30% (meaning you blocked it) and by an additional 30% if the attack is critically blocked. For non-tanks, it's Elusiveness, except worse, but better when combined with Defensive Stance. I think it balances out... maybe.
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100 Orc Warrior
5695
Well you were talking about talents to keep wars in range yet the last one mentioned is more a defensive cd then anything else.

Better thing to do would to ask for some more baseline skills, such as intervene breaking roots baseline. Because that also opens us up to some group utility, and maybe a baseline stun or root.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
05/17/2013 10:13 AMPosted by Derpybear
Missed the part where it reduces active dps to 0, meaning you can't cast anything while it's up.
No, I didn't. It really wouldn't change anything as tanks would gladly sacrifice DPS for an on-demand 50% DR ability, especially as it functionally has no cooldown.
Edited by Kangarooster on 5/17/2013 4:24 PM PDT
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