8 million people.

100 Night Elf Druid
17885
Well I think the Eastern block uses mostly time cards instead of subscriptions. Yes, that probably includes a percentage of trial/free accounts, but how do you count those as being lost since they aren't paying.

But if my math is right... 1.4 Mill @ $15/mo. is $21 million/mo. (for just an idea)

Even presuming that some percentage of those are paying a discounted asian price or something, such that this number would be the higher end of it... even $10 million per month is a significant loss.

And Activisions stance is "caution" because they think people are transitioning to other games, devices, etc.

Blizzard has to realize that any mistakes they make now can be deadly.

Few can deny that server populations are going down... people leaving guilds and not coming back. I'm not all gloom and 8 million is a great player size... when ships start to sink people flee.
Edited by Kurston on 5/10/2013 4:30 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
10090
Again, i do not come up with anything. I have quoted multiple times the very document you tell people to read. The quarterly report. THERE, it says that you are incorrect on both counts.
1. Blizzard is concerned.
2. Real definition of subscribers.

Bring documents proving you claims and i'll listen.


And the quarterly report agreed with me. I've explained numerous times how the Eastern model works, you have numerous links to them stating all their losses were in the East, you have the quarterly report also telling you that prepaid time cards were counted, and you have Wikipedia explaining to you how the Eastern "subscriptions" work.

I don't know how to possibly make it easier for you to understand. Maybe flash cards?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13690
05/10/2013 04:28 PMPosted by Roahin
What facts exactly? you haven't made a single point, you are here (like in every other thread i see you) trying to prove everyone else wrong, not making a point of your own. Sadly for you, you haven't had success here.


My point was that the loss of Asian subscriptions are not the same as Western subscriptions, largely in that the Eastern market doesn't have a subscription model. When they post a loss over there, it means that timecards aren't being logged into, or that someone who tried it out once for a couple of dollars didn't try it again.

I'm not saying people are wrong when they quote that 1.3 million subscriptions are lost. It's true because of how they qualify "subscriptions" by including people that don't... well, subscribe. But if you go against the whiners and qualify that most of the lost subscriptions represent virtually non-existent revenue in a market that they've gained almost no money on (comparatively) all the mouth-frothing whiners form Voltron and start spamming "LAWL U WAHNT 2 B MVP, TAHTS Y U TEECH US BOOUT SUBSKRIPSHUN MODELS!"


You couldn't be farther from the truth. Let me explain. My problem is not about whether the losses are from East or West. Or even if they represent lost revenue on Blizzard, that is nobody's problem except Blizzard's.
My problem is that you tend to attack people constantly telling them to educate themselves, see the facts, listen and read to quarterlies when is clear that you didn't read the document yourself.
Then, after people show you that you made a mistake instead of admitting it, you go and change the point completely.
But alas, that's the forums.

Back on topic, i remain firm. Against everything denialists think, the losses ARE somthing to be concerned about in relation to how is that going to impact gameplay and developer time for the game.
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90 Human Paladin
10090
Bottom line. Would any company report a *subscriber loss* when it isn't a financial loss? Why would they want to throw that out there?


They can't legally NOT report it.

If you have a $4 time card in China and log in once, decide you don't like it, and go back to the plethora of MMOs that actually dominate that country, you count as a subscription loss. Google WoW popularity in Asia and find out how many people try it once and never again. WoW is not popular there and the numbers spike dramatically. No consistent revenue comes out of the Asian market, but the market itself is too large to completely ignore.
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2 Tauren Shaman
0
That's how many people are still playing this game. Tell me, what MMORPG is 8-9 years old that still has a sub and the player base that WoW has?


What game can lose over a million subs and still have idiot trolls who tell everyone theyre wrong still?
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100 Night Elf Druid
17885
@Roahin, I can only agree with you in so far as we really don't know HOW they count subscribers and we don't know HOW MUCH money it represents as a loss.

It is a loss, Blizzard+Activision is concerned.

So, while you can claim that their profits are up and everything is rosy, somehow I seriously doubt that's the case. If it were, the rest of their report would have said.... "WoW's profits are up because they shed all the non paying eastern accounts, so things are great and getting better for World of Warcraft". ... wait... we didn't see that message.

So, while the OP is correct, WoW isn't doing badly with 8 million, it isn't great to lose so many players and they have to be asking themselves wow and how do we get them back... they are in the business of making money after all.
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90 Human Paladin
10090
You couldn't be farther from the truth. Let me explain. My problem is not about whether the losses are from East or West. Or even if they represent lost revenue on Blizzard, that is nobody's problem except Blizzard's.
My problem is that you tend to attack people constantly telling them to educate themselves, see the facts, listen and read to quarterlies when is clear that you didn't read the document yourself.
Then, after people show you that you made a mistake instead of admitting it, you go and change the point completely.
But alas, that's the forums.


You can shift the goal posts as much as you like. The original point was subscriptions. I claimed that the Asian markets aren't paying subscriptions. Then it became "WHAIT, U MEEN TAHT THAY DONT PAY NO MONIES 2 PLAY???" and when I qualified "don't pay subscriptions" as "working on another, far cheaper and lenient model that's impossible to compare to ours" it became "U CHANGENG WAT U SAID!".

I can shift my stance to accommodate your shifting goalposts of what you're trying to prove.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13690

You seem to trying to defend something that really isn't defensible.


This pretty much.
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90 Human Priest
7830
Profits and subscriptions aren't always as related as you might think. With the lower number of Eastern subscriptions, the impact of it is far less than it would be were it that sort of loss from the West.

Everyone seems to be focusing on the subscriptions when everyone should be focusing on the bottom line: profit.

To that end, Blizzard's profits are up. Not down, as subscription loss would have you believe.

Up.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13690
You couldn't be farther from the truth. Let me explain. My problem is not about whether the losses are from East or West. Or even if they represent lost revenue on Blizzard, that is nobody's problem except Blizzard's.
My problem is that you tend to attack people constantly telling them to educate themselves, see the facts, listen and read to quarterlies when is clear that you didn't read the document yourself.
Then, after people show you that you made a mistake instead of admitting it, you go and change the point completely.
But alas, that's the forums.


You can shift the goal posts as much as you like. The original point was subscriptions. I claimed that the Asian markets aren't paying subscriptions. Then it became "WHAIT, U MEEN TAHT THAY DONT PAY NO MONIES 2 PLAY???" and when I qualified "don't pay subscriptions" as "working on another, far cheaper and lenient model that's impossible to compare to ours" it became "U CHANGENG WAT U SAID!".

I can shift my stance to accommodate your shifting goalposts of what you're trying to prove.


Roahin....they do pay. that's our point....
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90 Human Paladin
10090
Firstly, since like five of the "WOW IS DIEING, NY1 WHO DISAGREES IS A FANBOY!" are screeching at me at once, sorry if I miss any of your unique and well-thought out insults. I only get so many posts a minute.

@Roahin, I can only agree with you in so far as we really don't know HOW they count subscribers and we don't know HOW MUCH money it represents as a loss.

It is a loss, Blizzard+Activision is concerned.

I don't disagree that it's a loss. I don't disagree that they should have some measure of concern. Competing in Asia has always been a concern for them because the WoW model is hugely Western based and has always poorly fit in the Eastern market. My contestation is simply that the END IS COMING mindset that so many forum trolls have is unwarranted.

WoW's profits have always been based off of the Western markets, and the crazy inexpensiveness of getting started and playing WoW in the East means that those losses are largely negligible. I can't quote hard and fast numbers because they don't indicate the brackets of the Eastern players.

How many were one shot players who bought a time card and never logged in again? How many were people who played for more than a month? The Eastern paradigm suggests most people aren't longterm WoW players, and common sense suggests we lost more one-shot players than eight years + players.

Whatever the hard numbers, the fact remains that the monetary loss of 1.3 million principally Eastern "subscriptions" was not very large in the quarterly report.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13690
Profits and subscriptions aren't always as related as you might think. With the lower number of Eastern subscriptions, the impact of it is far less than it would be were it that sort of loss from the West.

Everyone seems to be focusing on the subscriptions when everyone should be focusing on the bottom line: profit.

To that end, Blizzard's profits are up. Not down, as subscription loss would have you believe.

Up.


You are absolutely correct. I however, dislike that this truth creates the mentality of "pffft 8M subs, no one else got that, we OP". That is in my opinion a mistake.
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90 Human Paladin
10090
You don't think all subscriber losses are the same?


No. I don't think the $15 I pay that gets used up whether I use it or not at the end of the month is the same as a $1 block of time that simply times out because I haven't logged in in X months.
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