Lock PvP 5.3

90 Human Hunter
9645
A recent blue quote said that they are concerned that the Buff to AFF won't be enough, but that there isn't much PvP testing on smaller patches, and all they really have to go on is limited player feedback.

Of course, every lock I've ever seen post has screamed that the 10% buff to DoTs is about 1/3 to 1/4 what is really needed.

Any thoughts about how to reconcile this? Imo the buff to dots needs to go up substantially and siphon life needs a huge buff.

How can we save Lock PvP in 5.3?
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90 Human Warlock
5325
I don't see much in aff changing until MG is reworked. MG would probably need to be nerfed before the dots can be buffed. The way it is, we cant buff our dots a lot without a corresponding nerf to MG as that would make our single target damage op. Im all for taking MG out completely though, it's a pretty bad concept in pvp anyways.

For a quick fix, we would have to see dots buffed and MG channel time increased, or make MG deal less damage. This would allow our dots to do more damage by themselves without effecting how much damage they do when we are channeling. The only issue I see is that Blizz would be afraid of the aoe, but we still can't efficiently get all 3 diseases up on more than 4 people. I'd like to see aff be good in pvp, but I don't see it happening considering the way the devs are handling things.
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in the blue quote they also said

they like the pve rotation. MG and sb:ss hold aff locks back in pvp

this is what the player base has said.

why do you bring up self healing?
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1 Gnome Warlock
0

why do you bring up self healing?


Probably because there nearly isn't any?
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94 Blood Elf Warlock
15280
MG and sb:ss hold aff locks back in pvp

this is what the player base has said.

why do you bring up self healing?


MG, by itself, does not hold back Affliction in PVP, it's MG's interaction with Affliction's DoTs that wrecks the spec for pvp.

Self-healing is likely brought up because Affliction's self-healing is probably less than what the spec needs for staying Mana solvent, so therefore self-healing is relevant.
Edited by Zauberei on 5/14/2013 12:14 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Warlock
18935
Basic problem of affliction between pve and pvp is its mechanics. You have a nearly impossible time having it balanced in pvp then pve is way overpowered or pve is balanced and pvp is a flea fart.

There is no divorcing MG from aff's dots this expansion...its just too much a part of the system. The past approach of "just dots" isn't practical now since any casting for aff (who has mobility/surival issues) is out of the question. 2x to 3x never DR'ing interupts, stun DR, silence DR, and the misc other instant CC's is just too much. Especially for a spec that wears melee as a chastity belt and has all its CC+dmg in one spell school.

That is the core issue with affliction's damage.

Some people (including devs) cite SB:SS as the reason "aff can't have nice things" eg more potent dots in pvp. However they completely ignore how easily unholy puts up dots that tick almost an order of magnitude harder and spread them aoe instantly effortlessly while STILL having good single target pressure and a pet who trumps a wrathguard. So while the SB:SS is being scapegoated its really not that big an issue. Self healing, passives, healing stream, second wind, etc all pretty much offset unsupported affliction dots.

The second problem is the delta between baseline dots and haunt+darksoul/trinket dots. This delta needs to be narrowed before aff's pvp damage can be "fixed" (buffed) to where it needs to be.

That is the second part of the issue of affliction's damage.

This brings us to solutions. How can the devs keep pve balance intact, get aff's damage where it needs to be in pvp (facing the reality of melee/cc), and not make it OP? Its actually not THAT hard and plenty doable this expansion. Maybe even for 5.3...

1. Treat MG, DS, and DL (for aff only) as uninteruptable. Silence/stun/etc still work, just give aff's fillers a break from the never DR'ing interupts.
2. Change glyph of darksoul to buff dots vs players 30-50% but cuts darksoul's cooldown and power in half. EG 15% stat gain and 60 sec cd vs 30% stat/2 min cd.
3. Improve nightfall proc rate vs player targets OR have UA dispels also grant a shard.

Aff still has defensive issues but if the spec can actually function damage wise in pvp then it can at least find a niche or begin to function. Aff could probably also use 15% damage reduction baseline while keeping the 10% armor.

Unending resolve is more of a generic one...bad design mixing defensive CD with casting protection. Either divorce the two (unlikely this xpac) or make a minor glyph lowering the damage reduction to 12-15% but the cooldown to 1 min.

In any encounter I can think of all those changes would be pve neutral so nothing changes in terms of pve balance. You *might* see people use engineering w' 60 sec cd darksoul but that's no different than people using herbalism/orc racial + darksoul now. Still that should be generically speaking net neutral. Maybe aff goes up a little on heroic animus since it can channel through the shockblast but that's really not what makes/breaks the fight success wise. Hopefully the devs consider a bit more outside the box thinking along the lines of what I outlined above. It would be nice to have pvp be FUN again. Being perma shut down so easily and moreso than other classes just isn't fun pvp wise no matter what level you play at.
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90 Human Hunter
9645
The scariest thing is that when talking about Lock PvP 5.3. We all focus on AFF which we know is almost impossible for them to fix given their stubborness and PvE focus.

I do want to see AFF buffed, but I don't think they will get it right this xpac. What is more troubling is some of the obvious fixes that are needed for Demo and Destro...or more accurately for the Lock class as a whole.
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90 Worgen Warlock
18935
I'm actually pretty worried about survival as a whole. The healing nerfs (even w' pvp power scaling) reduce say demo's 250-300K sac pact shield down to a 120K absorb. Since we can pretty easily get killed through live's sac pact + glyph'd healthstone/dark regen its probably going to be a problem come 5.3 going live. You pretty much can't hit high enough resil to match what we have for resil stacked on live.

Its pretty hard to condemn a single instant chaosbolt when frost or firemage burst sequences far surpass it yet somehow its less QQ'd about due to being several combat log entries in a couple gcd's which is similar to the hit/dot of CB. Mentally speaking they are also far less visible than a giant green dragon looking bolt flying at someone.

Scaling wise CB without CD's is trivial...I can absorb it fully with a twilight ward let alone what other classes can do. Its less damage than your average ice lance for comparison sake and infinitely harder to execute.

I'm not saying locks should be what mages or thug cleave are (just for example) since the game would be just a zergfest if that was the norm. However if everyone were as problematic as warlocks (in pvp) nobody would ever die in pvp.

If I had to pick one spec that might have a chance this expac it would be demo. Destro still has to cast too much and for some reason people have a freak out fest about CB no matter how much logic or math you throw at them. Demo can function vs a cleave but lacks the burst to push a kill and the spread pressure to rot a team. If you let locks keep DF going between DA and meta/caster it would be a start but the chaoswave nerf needs to be reverted but CW needs a bit of a tweak. That would be to treat it like soulfire/chaosbolt in that you cut damage in half, always crits, and scales with crit. Even if you had to do a dot (or even toc vulnerability) ala gosac chaosbolt its a better direction than the RNG swings of 2x CW. You have a sub 2% chance to double crit and when neither crits it hits for 40K to 50K on live with cooldowns. Again...we need to find a middle ground. The 33% cost thing should have come with a 3rd charge if they were keeping it balanced. Also pretty sure this wouldn't be a pve gain since you'd give up a ton of DF to do it (say during a UVLS proc) so pve balance isn't impacted significantly.

Right now locks are just not fun in pvp whether you are a tourney level multiglad w' friends who basically "carry" you in the comp or just an average joe trying to grind honor/conquest. When the devs did mass CC for everyone, gutted lock CC, and homogenized interupts with no DR lock pvp broke since at the same time they made us cast more than ever (which pve's well due to KJC). Something needs to give or locks can basically write off the pvp aspect of the game until next expansion.
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