conversion

100 Human Death Knight
12555
I still think conversion needs to be nerfed along with alot of abilities that MAGES,rogues,dk,bm hunter,demo lock and shadow priest have. It would also be nice for the developers to test classes in pvp before they just put them on live everyone wants to be op but that's just killing wow
Edited by Blacksteel on 5/12/2013 6:31 PM PDT
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100 Orc Death Knight
8280
So what are you saying? Nerf it back to what it was before and make it non-viable? Its fine as it is.
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05/12/2013 12:05 PMPosted by Celestials


Conversion is fine, Blood Presence needs to be changed for Unholy and Frost


wat happened 2 ur unded hair


I won one of those Tyra Banks make-overs
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36 Human Paladin
7575
05/12/2013 11:48 AMPosted by Marshmellowx
Hate to say it but maybe conversion need to be nerf some as unholy i can pretty much lock down a caster as conversion heal me and if ur under geared good luck killing me


Conversion is fine, Blood Presence needs to be changed for Unholy and Frost


Blood presence is being nerfed next patch, they're making it a bigger damage loss to use it, which is the right thing to do.
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100 Human Death Knight
7255
Fun fact, blood pres is a 10% damage reduction, most classes have a passive 15% at all times damage reduction. Check your spell books people. Feel silly yet?
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05/12/2013 08:23 PMPosted by Gallantros


Conversion is fine, Blood Presence needs to be changed for Unholy and Frost


Blood presence is being nerfed next patch, they're making it a bigger damage loss to use it, which is the right thing to do.


Not really a nerf to blood presence, every high rated DK has mentioned that losing Sudden doom procs from being in Blood Presence isnt that much of a damage loss

+25% Stamina +55% Base Armor +10% Damage Reduction, it's too much to have passive and needs to be looked at. IMO Buff the Damage Reduction to 15% and make it only give +5-10% Stamina and +20-25% Armor to Non-Blood Death Knights.
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
12905


Blood presence is being nerfed next patch, they're making it a bigger damage loss to use it, which is the right thing to do.


Not really a nerf to blood presence, every high rated DK has mentioned that losing Sudden doom procs from being in Blood Presence isnt that much of a damage loss

+25% Stamina +55% Base Armor +10% Damage Reduction, it's too much to have passive and needs to be looked at. IMO Buff the Damage Reduction to 15% and make it only give +5-10% Stamina and +20-25% Armor to Non-Blood Death Knights.

it equates to about the same thing frost gives up for sitting in blood. which is more than enough. no more free death coils means less runes back and unbuffed pet. cant keep conversion up and keep firing death coils out with this change.

nothing else needs to be changed stamina boost does little with the amount of damage dks are forced to take due to immobility. and armor is a terrible thing to try and justify being a problem when majority of the damage thrown around in pvp eiether bypasses it entirely or a fair amount of it.

the problem come 5.3 if you are having an issue with bp + conversion is the person sitting behind your computer screen
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100 Human Death Knight
13180
I love my dk. I married it.
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Not really a nerf to blood presence, every high rated DK has mentioned that losing Sudden doom procs from being in Blood Presence isnt that much of a damage loss

+25% Stamina +55% Base Armor +10% Damage Reduction, it's too much to have passive and needs to be looked at. IMO Buff the Damage Reduction to 15% and make it only give +5-10% Stamina and +20-25% Armor to Non-Blood Death Knights.


it equates to about the same thing frost gives up for sitting in blood. which is more than enough. no more free death coils means less runes back and unbuffed pet. cant keep conversion up and keep firing death coils out with this change.


Good, this means DKs will have to worry more about resource management, instead of mindlessly spamming damage

And I wouldn't agree on what you said about equating to what frost loses in blood presence, -20% duration on all CC is a pretty big deal

Also the 25% stamina when paired with the 10% damage reduction and armor bonus giving fully geared DKs a health pool of 450k+ makes them an especially hard kill target for certain classes
Edited by Marshmellowx on 5/12/2013 10:06 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
17265
And I wouldn't agree on what you said about equating to what frost loses in blood presence, -20% duration on all CC is a pretty big deal


No. It's not.

If you just got stunned while in Frost Presence, one of two things happen:

1) You use one of your CC-breaks.

2) You die.

When in Blood Presence, Frost is stuck paying a significantly higher cost for one of their main attacks. 2h frost uses that attack for filler, and to trigger their rune recharging talents. The longer they stay in Blood, the lower their output. Dual-wield uses that attack as their main damage dealer - which is why you see even less dual-wielder DKs than you see two-hander monks.

The -20% CC decrease is not missed. If you weren't in Blood Presence before the CC hit, you're in for a bad time.

And Conversion needs to lose the dumb-as-hell /macro functionality. Either it needs to be changed to 6% and double its current cost, or become a spammable 6% heal, or the whole thing needs to go away. But 6% conversion if you spam the macro, 3% if you use it the way it says it works, is broken.
Edited by Sylassanna on 5/12/2013 10:32 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
12905


it equates to about the same thing frost gives up for sitting in blood. which is more than enough. no more free death coils means less runes back and unbuffed pet. cant keep conversion up and keep firing death coils out with this change.


Good, this means DKs will have to worry more about resource management, instead of mindlessly spamming damage

And I wouldn't agree on what you said about equating to what frost loses in blood presence, -20% duration on all CC is a pretty big deal

Also the 25% stamina when paired with the 10% damage reduction and armor bonus giving fully geared DKs a health pool of 450k+ makes them an especially hard kill target for certain classes
even pre nerf its not mindlessly spamming damage waiting on a proc that you only get from melee swings. if you are already forcing unholy dks to play defensively they more than likely are focusing on kiting which means less white hits which = less sudden doom procs.

if we are comparing what frost gives up for sitting in blood to unholy with the proposed changes it does about even up what the specs give up.

frost gives up : reduced frost strike cost making it impossible to use frost strike effectively to regen runes thus crippling dps output while running conversion. additionally and this is far from a gamebreaking difference roughly 1 sec off most ccs should the dk choose to sit through it.

unholy will now give up: free death coils from sudden doom procs which no longer work outside of unholy presence. so less damage from rune dumps, no buffed pet damage which is a large source of unholy dk damage, less rune regen procs if any as you will be saving the rp for conversion, slower rune regen as unholy presence gives a passive faster rune regen rate which is another damage loss. its more than a fair tradeoff

once again armor does not mean a thing in todays pvp where most clothies have better survival than plate wearers.

the stam once again even with a passive 10% damage reduction isnt a huge deal. its 10% less than dks only physical damage reduction cd icebound fortitude and any half decent class can sneeze through a 20% damage reduction
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05/12/2013 10:31 PMPosted by Sylassanna
And I wouldn't agree on what you said about equating to what frost loses in blood presence, -20% duration on all CC is a pretty big deal


No. It's not.

If you just got stunned while in Frost Presence, one of two things happen:

1) You use one of your CC-breaks.

2) You die.

The -20% CC decrease is not missed. If you weren't in Blood Presence before the CC hit, you're in for a bad time.


1)The typical DK has 4 cc breaks if specced accordingly

And skilled dks can anticipate cc on them and swap to frost presence before the cc hits them for a shorter duration so they don't have to use one of their million cc breaks, the good dks
can do this

2) because of this Dks are less prone to die in stuns than most other classes
Edited by Marshmellowx on 5/12/2013 10:43 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
12905
05/12/2013 10:42 PMPosted by Marshmellowx


No. It's not.

If you just got stunned while in Frost Presence, one of two things happen:

1) You use one of your CC-breaks.

2) You die.

The -20% CC decrease is not missed. If you weren't in Blood Presence before the CC hit, you're in for a bad time.


1)The typical DK has 4 cc breaks if specced accordingly

And skilled dks can anticipate cc on them and swap to frost presence before the cc hits them for a shorter duration so they don't have to use one of their million cc breaks, the good dks
can do this

2) because of this Dks are less prone to die in stuns than most other classes

if the dk is eating a cc they are going to die in a swap in frost presence. being caught outside of blood presence as a dk anymore is a death sentence and 1 sec off of that cc doesnt matter when you are dead before it ends...
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Its hilarious watching bad dks play matches start to finish in blood presence. When they dont get targeted once.
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1)The typical DK has 4 cc breaks if specced accordingly

And skilled dks can anticipate cc on them and swap to frost presence before the cc hits them for a shorter duration so they don't have to use one of their million cc breaks, the good dks
can do this

2) because of this Dks are less prone to die in stuns than most other classes

if the dk is eating a cc they are going to die in a swap in frost presence. being caught outside of blood presence as a dk anymore is a death sentence and 1 sec off of that cc doesnt matter when you are dead before it ends...


Try watching a high rated DK play sometime you might learn something...

Zetox and Biotox switch to frost pres to shorten cc when they have a defensive to pop if they get swapped to, of course they wont switch out of blood to eat every cc in frost presence, it's min/maxing, the -2 seconds on a fear is +2 seconds of uptime on a target which in a high rated game can change a lot of things.

As for the one defending blood presence, most classes are lucky to have that much mitigation on a long defensive cooldown, you have it as an available passive buff that in no way punishes the player for sitting in it for an entire game.

Saying that +25% stamina with a 10% passive damage reduction and +55% base armor increase isn't a huge deal? are you high? are you even aware of what armor does in this game?
Edited by Marshmellowx on 5/12/2013 11:06 PM PDT
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90 Orc Death Knight
10370
05/12/2013 11:40 AMPosted by Skinaknaut
(battle fatigue+healing reduction player effects)


Does not understand battle fatigue.
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
dk's are only viable cause of a bug that lets you get 6% hp/sec at any hp

you'll have an easier time killing a warrior using shield wall than a dk in blood presence using a conversion macro.
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
12905


Saying that +25% stamina with a 10% passive damage reduction and +55% base armor increase isn't a huge deal? are you high? are you even aware of what armor does in this game?
are you aware that majority of the damage in pvp ignores armor eiether partially or entirely?
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90 Orc Death Knight
5115
05/13/2013 04:11 AMPosted by Sanctifìed
dk's are only viable cause of a bug that lets you get 6% hp/sec at any hp
You troll this a few times a week. You're not going to convince anyone that it's a bug when Holinka has not only acknowledged its existence but has also justified it. Just stop.

Frost in Blood Presence is awful. Their damage is balanced around 15 RP Frost Strikes and +20% RP generation. Take both of those away and you neuter them almost completely.

Unholy in Blood Presence is still good but that's only because Unholy has insane pressure, not because Blood Presence is soOo gooood.*You take away +20% Rune Regen speed and attack speed (more Sudden Doom procs) but Timmy is still clawing and diseases are still ticking. I don't think Sudden Doom in Blood Presence is the answer. I think a cut taken from Shadow Infusion or Ebon Plaguebringer while in Blood Presence makes more sense.

*Blood Presence reduces magic damage taken by 10%. In the current meta, that's nothing. +55% Armor when most teams will have not only wizards but also Colossus Smash, Tiger Power and Find Weakness, as well as a plethora of bleeds and magic dots most melee have means that bonus is near-meaningless. +25% Stam is a couple extra globals of damage which, even combined with Conversion, still doesn't mitigate the insane burst the top tier classes, as well as 2nd tier, are capable of.
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