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take this item for example. obviously the items level is 535 because the game works it out and displays it for you.
what i would like to know is the calculation as to how that is worked out. all i could find was some formulas from 2009 are they still accurate?
Edited by Zoidscow on 5/10/2013 6:54 AM PDT
yeah figured ; /
what I'm trying to work out is what the actual item level of
would be if the pvp power wasn't a budget free stat and instead was part of the item level calculation.
figured this would be the best forum to ask in lol
there's macros like that for average item level.
would there be a way to macro analyse a single piece of gear?
Edited by Zoidscow on 5/10/2013 10:08 AM PDT
Honestly what will be the point. In 5.3:
Conquest gear will be increased to item level 496 (up from 493).
Read the changes on this in detail here:
That would be hard to judge and would differ by class. For example, in bgs:
PvP Power bonus to healing is now based on class and specialization.
So you may compare a number but to know as a healer all PvP power doubles your healing is huge. It is an equivalent of our strongest stat Intellect/Spell Power. The weight of PvP power as a stat is considerable then and will change depending on spec.
I think once the patch comes out you're gonna have to wait on some theorycrafters but pvp gear will take a definite advantage over pve gear in pvp situations.
Edited by Sedivy on 5/10/2013 10:52 AM PDT
I thought iLevel was a constant that other things calculate themselves based upon?
Like when ... what was it, honor gear was too high ilevel at the beginning of Mists, so people were gearing out in honor gear and then going into raid finder? Blizzard said they changed the item level of those gears to make them less attractive in PVE than say 463 ilevel gear from heroics.
just curious as to what the real ilvl of the pvp gear would be compared to pve gear.Item level is item level. There's no "real" item level.
Item level determines a piece's stat allocation, with anecdotal formulas suggested as you linked above. Since PVP Power and PVP Resilience don't take away from an item's stat budget, you can compare base stats alone using item level.
So a raid-drop item that is ilvl 535 should have the same primary and secondary stat allocation as a PVP piece that is ilvl 535 (ignoring its PVP stats).
Item level is item level. There's no "real" item level.
yes however pvp power is a free stat not part of the item lvl budget in order to keep it out of LFR
the actual ilvl of all pvp gear is higher than what is being displayed if you were to factor in all the free stats its giving you.
for example a full pvp set will give you around 13000 FREE pvp power rating as a 3rd 'secondary stat' on each piece of gear.
now if that was taken into account for the ilvl calculation instead of being free the tyrannical pvp gear would be much much much higher than 496 (closer to ilvl534)
Edited by Eighteen on 5/11/2013 1:57 AM PDT
There are no free stats it's giving you considering pvp power is completely useless in pve. That's 13000 of nothing as far as PvE combat goes. Compare base stats to equivalent pve gear and you have the equivalent pve ilvl.
If this is for pvp purposes read the linked I linked earlier. All pvp items are gonna be ilvl capped anyway.
yes however pvp power is a free stat not part of the item lvl budget in order to keep it out of LFRYou're not making any sense here. "ilvl" refers purely to stat allocation. Free stats mean no change in ilvl. So I guess you're referring to something other than ilvl.
If you mean which gear is more "powerful," in terms of the overall benefits it provides to the player -- as Sedivy said there's no use for PVP stats in PVE. So whatever extra "power" the gear gives only applies to PVP, and then at that point you simply compare the item levels to see which one is more "powerful."
You're not making any sense here. "ilvl" refers purely to stat allocation. Free stats mean no change in ilvl. So I guess you're referring to something other than ilvl.
obviously. but the budget free stat (pvpp) is on there regardless.
This isn't some imaginary value im making up its already there ingame blizzard is just intentionally letting it bypass the calculation as a free stat to keep the ilvl down for purposes of restricting Q's for pve content in pvp gear and freely adjusting the strength of the pvp gear without altering the ilvl.
just because it doesn't do anything in pve doesn't mean it has no value. what if you are doign pvp? take for example people inside a BG. one player is in pvp gear the other in full pve gear. the pvp power definitely has value and makes up for a certain amount of gear gap.
IF (IF being the important word here) you were to allocate a itemization value to pvpp (it already has one its just bypassing the calculation) in the same manner as you would say + mastery + haste + crit rating that item level of the pvp gear would skyrocket as it is providing 33% more secondary stats than equivalent pve gear (even if they are pvp specific)
every stat has a itemization value associated with it. a cost of sorts. stamina's value budget per item lvl is less than say agility which is why every piece of gear has more stamina on it than anything else.
i was just curious as to how much that would boost the pvp gears ilvl IF it were given a value and calculated as part of the itemization.
it would be helpful in comparing the actual ilvls between pvp and pve gear for balance reasons so one could guage a more accurate comparison as to where pvp gear actually sits in terms of strength against the pve counterpart.
the current system is starting to get so convoluted in terms of balancing / hidden values and restrictions / different coefficients for certain situations between the 2 knowing the value blizz actually puts on the stat (hidden or not) it would be helpful information.
its pretty clear to me no one knows the info I'm looking for.
don't know till you ask right?
thanks for the replies.
Edited by Zoidscow on 5/12/2013 1:51 AM PDT
Obviously nobody knows. I mean pvp power changes and ilvl caps are coming up in next patch. They're not even out yet on live. It hasn't been tested out enough for pvp gurus to be able to tell you whether a particular piece of pvp gear is more useful than whatever piece of pve gear. We're not given formulas ever so if you want comparisons you're just gonna have to wait for user testing.
OK, so your real question is "Given that you can use both PVE and PVP gear in PVP situations, how can you tell if a certain piece is more helpful for PVP when considering increased primary stats vs PVP stats?" Is that correct? I ask only because your focus on "item level" gave the impression that you were after PVE utility.
The answer isn't easy just because - as with any gear comparison - the value of any one particular stat changes depending on your current stats. It's a fairly safe assumption, though, that I could calculate the percentage increase to my PVP DPS based on a point of strength vs. a point of PVP power. I'd wager since PVP power scales to a unit percentage point faster than strength or other primary stats, you'd definitely prefer PVP gear even if it's (marginally) lower item level.
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