5.3 Ret Gemming PVP

90 Human Paladin
3555
Ok, I'm positive (from what I've seen and read) that PVP gear will be better than PVE gear for all forms of PVP besides world PVP. So, what are the gemming priorities going to be?

I'm thinking Haste> Power > Strength > Crit > Mastery

Though haste in my experience doesn't offer a huge increase in reduced CD speed, it does smooth things over - at least 15%

Power is obviously important because it ties into our damage AND heals.

Strength can work, but I haven't seen a huge damage increase while stacking it, am I wrong?

Crit is better than mastery mainly for two reasons. Our buff helps up our mastery percent, and crit helps with damage and heals.

I'm sure about the last two, but the first three I'm still having some trouble deciding.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
5940
05/10/2013 06:25 PMPosted by Amuroraye
Strength can work, but I haven't seen a huge damage increase while stacking it, am I wrong?


Yes.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
19815
No gemming will give you zomghuge differences, the level of itemization isn't there. Say you gem pure strength where you can, and hybrid strength gems to match sockets.. it's 1100 strength. That's only the third of the value of the proc trinket, or slightly less than dancing steel, it's just not enough to see a big difference.

Gemming primary stats is probably going to be extremely common.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
3555
I did - but I guess it's just not suited to my playing style. I'll try stacking strength and power and see where that takes me. It takes why more haste then I can stack to be as fast as I want.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14055
The only gemming which has a huge effect is resilience because certain amounts of it are only obtainable through gems. Going from 63% resil to 69% via gemming is a 19.3% difference in damage reduction.
Edited by Martymcfly on 5/10/2013 10:29 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
3555
^5.3 Buddy. Resil Gems are not as effective.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14055
^5.3 Buddy. Resil Gems are not as effective.


It'll still be the same, going from 65% damage reduction to 70% from gems will be a 16% reduction in damage, far more than your damage increase will be after resil comes into account.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
17975
05/11/2013 11:01 AMPosted by Martymcfly
^5.3 Buddy. Resil Gems are not as effective.


It'll still be the same, going from 65% damage reduction to 70% from gems will be a 16% reduction in damage, far more than your damage increase will be after resil comes into account.


This isn't even taking into account that Ret is still more than likely going to be the focus target in most serious pvp environments so even a smaller amount of survivability is worth more than a larger amount of damage in most cases.

Ret is still half utility/healing and the other half damage so pure damage for us is not as useful as it is to other classes as anyone with half a brain isn't going to bring a ret along just for our DPS. The more important thing is for us to not die in a global.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
14015
Now admittedly I've not got my paladin to 90 yet on live to really get a feel for it but while I've been trying out pure mastery builds using str/mastery, mastery, and mastery/pvp power I find the burst is rather frightening.

With this and reforing to mastery > crit > haste I'm currently at 50% mastery though one thing to note I'm also using using the t15 4pc.

While I've not exactly had a chance to test this thoroughly in PvP I will say that I was able to do a 683k tv on a dummy earlier this morning and while it would take a big hit from resil I still have 31% pvp power to factor in.

Though again let me say I don't know how it is for ret at 90 on live and all my PTR testing comes from bursting someone down in a hoj in 2v2.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
3555
On the PTR I've tried full haste/power gemming, Full power gemming, but I haven't tried resil + power/mastery gemming. The feel of 17+% haste is very smooth, but it takes so much gemming/reforging I can see how it isn't worth it.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
7690
On the PTR I've tried full haste/power gemming, Full power gemming, but I haven't tried resil + power/mastery gemming. The feel of 17+% haste is very smooth, but it takes so much gemming/reforging I can see how it isn't worth it.


What about thinking of it this way:

All that extra haste produces more holypower which you can in turn use for more healing which in turn increases survivability. Meaning, more haste is a dps AND survivability stat vs resilience which is only a survivability stat?

Flip side is that gemming resil allows less defensive play overall as you are inherently more tough and don't NEED the extra heals freeing that holypower up for more damage...

oohhhh the choices...

EDIT: one last thought, going pure haste to produce the extra holypower would allow more heals for your team, not just your own personal survivability.

...Then consider that Ret is the trained target so they NEED the personal survivability.... oy vey...
Edited by Mcshmoo on 5/12/2013 10:06 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12610
More holy power doesn't create a linear amount of survive ability as haste increases.
Ret's biggest problem is CC susceptibility.
Once defensive CDs are gone, Ret has a terrible time trying to stay alive compared to other classes due to most of the survive ability comes from self healing.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
3555
I hate to admit when you're right, but you're right. Would you keep your gemming for Resil+primary specs? Or would you start to stack Secondary specs in slots (considering PVP gems have been nerfed)
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12610
I don't know.
I don't have access to the PTR because I could not be bothered going on there..
I don't have the numbers either, and even if I did I couldn't be bothered doing the math.

I suggest just doing it yourself if you want to know the real answer.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6790
05/11/2013 11:01 AMPosted by Martymcfly
^5.3 Buddy. Resil Gems are not as effective.


It'll still be the same, going from 65% damage reduction to 70% from gems will be a 16% reduction in damage, far more than your damage increase will be after resil comes into account.


This.
Reply Quote
1 Orc Warrior
0
Resilience > primary stat > pvp power > secondary stat
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7130
I had a blast gemming full retard with yellow gems on the PTR for giggles, but resilience is probably what I'll use-- even after the nerf to gems.

To be honest, resilience is now even stronger against PvP Power per point of stat due to the scaling nerf. It seems like a no-brainer for me, although I can see where someone would want to gem straight crit or strength for the lols.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
3555
Full haste is amazing - but I'm going to search for Resil+Strength and power and Haste/strength (blue slots). I'm not sure there is a "right" answer yet.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12635
In 5.3 you won't gem Resil or Power like 5.2, and you shouldn't ever be gemming for Haste, just reforging for it - then or now. The nerfs to the gems and the calcs is substantial. We're loosing like 15-20% dmg from PvP Power and gaining about double our bonus to healing players. Additionally going the Resil route won't even get +4% out of stacking full Resil. You'll get maybe 2.5ish.

*In full Tyrannical with Full Resil:
67.32% (remember we have a flat 65% base now)
1,640 (+2.32%) (case in point, +2.32% is crap)

*In full Tyrannical with Full Power:
41.10%
16,441 (+41.10% Damage, +28.77% Healing)

* - As Human, No JC gem. No BS slots. No Belt buckle slot. Insignia+Badge trinkets

As you can see PvP Power fairs a little better than Resil but not something to get excited about. From a full stacking you can squeeze about 3% out of it. Where as strength works with buffs and stacks with your trinkets - plus you get socket bonuses which haven't been nerfed and as a result mean so much more to having now. Blizz commented how hybrids would benefit most from the changes to resil and power, and that's us. That's why we're not stacking resil either, cuz our heal bonus is getting buffed BOOYA style.

We're going to be gemming Strength and then either Crit or Mastery depending on your medium of PvP play and your Style of Play, and some Power to ensure socket bonuses.

So reforge with Haste #1, then gem Strength and then either Str/Crit or Str/Mastery depending on style of play/medium/etc. For the Blue slots, you'll pick a gem with Str and something useful to fulfill the socket bonuses, which (because of the gemming nerfs) have become substantial, sans boots - the +60 Power there, not so much but doesn't hurt. Same with shoulder bonus, it's a.. well.. bonus.

Going this route in full Tyr you'll see a number spread like:
28.5k AP
+14% Haste
+15% Crit (lower if you went mastery on your orange)
+20.5% Mastery (higher if you went this way on your orange)
+39%** Power (+39% dmg, + 27% healing)
+65% Resil

** This is for Humans who don't have to use a Medallion trinket.


So in other words:
Red: Bold Primordial Ruby
Yellow: Inscribed Vermilion Onyx -or- Skillful Vermilion Onyx ##
Blue: Tense Imperial Amethyst

## My rule of thumb on Mastery Vs Crit: Unless you wanna be a 'Glass Cannon' go Crit and save lives, which sometimes is your own. The big mastery induced TV hits are nice and all to see "oooh big numbers" but I'd rather see the big numbers in green above my, or teammates, pressured head.

Using a Shado-Pan Assault trinket instead of a Insignia/Badge will cause a net loss of about %4 Power (4% dmg and 2.5% healing). Don't forget you can upgrade it now.

Edit: Wanted to add a comment. Remember, Blizzard is having a painful time trying to balance PvP Gear vs PvE gear. What could be easier for them then to remove resil from gear and make you gem a PvE stat instead of a PvP one? There you go.
Edited by Lovepony on 5/21/2013 9:48 AM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]