H Ji-kun 10m

90 Worgen Druid
6550
Been working on some strategies for my guild and I could use a little insight. I'm thinking of using 3 tanks with one of them going to every nest group except the tenth one (can't be 2 places at once!). If we had a feral druid I might try having them just go bear for the nest guardians but the best we have is a ret paladin and I think they will be too squishy even if they equip a shield, right? Was going to see if having them simply spec prot and put on a shield will be enough to just absorb some hits and be the MVP that makes things 10 times easier on the platform tanks and healers stressing out about a third stack of talons or stacking dot debuff.

I also wanted to 2 heal this fight if possible along side our monk and I figured it would be fine to have him go to all the even nests to cover quills damage and nest guardians (he'll be going to nest 11 since 9 and 10 happen at the same time). How has your quills timing worked out in this reguard? It seems to me that they tend to happen a couple seconds after clearing every even # nest so we might have to force the nest group to stay where they are for 8 seconds so that they aren't taking quills damage while flying?? I don't believe the hatchling dmg is significant enough to warrent a in place of a dps. I've also considered 3 heal, 3 tanking it but IDK, that just seem silly and unneccessary since I know many guilds 2 heal it.

People who get nutrients and have the dot on them seem to be at potential of being gibbed by an incoming caw. I assume that my guild just needs to get a lot better at avoid the caws entirely but is there any other advise I can give them about not simply dieing to caw after a tick of nutrients slime debuff goes off? It's a long fight and I expect slips ups but I also expect dps to try and get the dps buff. Do any of your healers actually use the nutrients buff? We just have dps getting it currently; I'm just wondering if I should be attempting to get it.
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100 Troll Rogue
15940
You definitely don't need 3 tanks, your tank on the platform might need to survive a 3 stack of talon rake but with good cd usage its not a big deal even with tanks close to 500 ilvl, you can manage the infected wounds stack seperately to talon rake if you need to with taunt swaps.

From memory the guardians are only on nest 2 (down) 4 (up) 8 (down) 12 (up)

2 healing is doable, we always 3 healed as the dps check isn't tight at all your healers will probably be bored for a lot of the fight if you 3 heal.

We deal with caw by having the ranged team stack on the outer platform and then move in the last half of the cast bar together, we actually let our mage just eat the caw and heal him through it though just to give our healers something extra to do.

As far as surviving quills on nests, classes just need to use their strong defensive cooldowns and off heals to survive, hand of protection also works well for saving squishy people if you are relying on ve or ag obviously don't kill everything before quills starts.

As far as nutriment goes, your dps should definitely be using their spare feathers to grab them, I don't believe our healers worry about it but one of our tanks definitely grabs what he can although that might not be a good idea while learning.
Edited by Sabod on 5/19/2013 9:47 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Death Knight
10730
While 2 tanking it is very possible to have one tank go to every nest guardian, but (s)he's going to need to take 4 talon rakes in between the 2nd and 3rd guardian. You might be able to do 3, but I do 4 just so the other tank doesn't get overwhelmed.
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90 Troll Druid
14480
What we did was:

Monk tank starts with boss, eats first Talon Rake. I take boss and eat two stacks. Monk comes back and eats two stacks. I take two stacks and so on. Monk has to eat three at some point. I take boss back, he goes to final platform and then we burn. I never had to take four Talon Rakes because the monk would time his platforms just right.

Here is a link to our logs from that fight:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wghgt8u266wzm1fk/sum/damageDone/?s=10276&e=10705

We two-healed it with a druid and a paladin.
Edited by Windytusks on 5/19/2013 10:26 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
we actually let our mage just eat the caw and heal him through it though just to give our healers something extra to do.


Was hitting our mage for 383k dmg and on top of nutrients slime tick he was pretty much globaled.

I had thought about making a stacking strategy for range but I figured they might get annoyed with all the movement from slime and caw.

I still plan on keeping both our main tanks on the platform and finding a different way to handle the nest guardian. It can be done either way and I'm sure people put a lot of work into doing it the convensional way. Anymore advice is appreciated.
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100 Troll Hunter
11905
With two Paladins, and one being a tank, you will never find use for the third tank, unless you really want to get rid of a DPS or healer for whatever reason. It's much more fun with a DK + Warrior :P
Edited by Naumu on 5/19/2013 11:30 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
16345
With two Paladins, and one being a tank, you will never find use for the third tank, unless you really want to get rid of a DPS or healer for whatever reason. It's much more fun with a DK + Warrior :P


Yer, I tanked the boss most of the time with the warrior tank doing all the platform tanking... Taking 4 Talon Rake is ok as a pally because of Shield of Righteousness (can't imagine other tanks doing it though)... It's not optimal but cuts down coordination by a lot...
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100 Troll Rogue
15940
It's much more fun with a DK + Warrior :P

Warriors are actually quite good at talon rake as its blockable, stacking shield barrier and shield block works remarkably well.
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90 Tauren Druid
15560

I still plan on keeping both our main tanks on the platform and finding a different way to handle the nest guardian. It can be done either way and I'm sure people put a lot of work into doing it the convensional way. Anymore advice is appreciated.


I don't see why you would personally. We just finished Heroic Ji'Kun on 10-man not too long ago. The strategy mentioned by Windytusks sounds about like what we do, however we use a Death Knight instead of a Guardian druid. We've had times while learning where the DK tank would hit a platform late, and healing myself or our DPS DK through a nest Guardian is not fun. There's also no real reason to keep both of your main tanks on the middle platform, as far as I know. Your puddles will be out of control a little bit, but that's okay for your first kill.
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90 Human Warlock
14475
10H Ji-kun:

Divide groups into:

1: three dps + healer
2: two strongest cleavers + healer + open spot

Group 1 does 1/3/5/7(/9)
Group 2 does 2/4/6/8(/10)

Note: 9/10 is the double nest set and doing this set entirely revolves around how much damage your group can do - when we were on Ji-kun for progression, we started burn here and ignored the double nest.

Note 2: There are nest guardians on 2/4/8 - this means that the group with the open spot should be accompanied by a tank for these ones. The tank that pulls can go to nests 2, 4 and the other tank will be free to go to nest 8, although it lines up with a downdraft that everyone must be aware of. No tank will ever need to take more than two talon rakes.

The fight:
On pull, everyone hits boss - nest 1 activates shortly after the pull, G1 goes down, collects feathers - the healer here typically comes up early while the dps wait for feed, picking up primal nutrients on their way up. At this point, nest 2 is active - the tank who pulled should be receiving his 2nd stack of talon rake, at which point the tanks swap and the tank with 2 stacks goes down and calls to the group that he is doing so so that they can go down too. Again, the dps (and potentially healer) hang out to grab nutrients, tank goes back immediately after things are clear. Nest 3 will be active here and plays out essentially like nest 1.

At this point you have 8 people with feathers - the people in G1 should have 3 charges, the people in G2 have *2* charges. This is important. Since G2 has to do nests 4 and 6, they have no charges to spare and must *only* use the remaining 2 charges they have to get to the nests they have to kill. G1 meantime has 2 free charges that they can use to grab the feed buff *as long as they leave one* to get to nest 5.

Now the up nests begin - nest 4 has a guardian - again, shortly after the nest activates, the tank that pulled should pick up a second stack of talon rake, at which point the other tank taunts and the first tank makes his way to the nest. Around this time, feed also goes out - so the people going up to nest 4 (the three in group 2) should grab nutrients as they go up. This is the theme for the up nests - the cue to use to go to your nest (if it is an up nest) is the feed being sent to that nest - you begin flying, grab the nutrients and then land on your up nest and use the buff to kill the eggs super fast.

When nests 4, 5 and 6 are down, the fight cycles back to effectively like the pull - G1 goes down for 7, G2 goes down for 8 - note that there is a downdraft that lines up and can make hitting the nest difficult - be ready for this. Also note that there is a guardian on this nest - so the group needs to wait for the tanks to swap and get down there.

At this point, you should be able to judge your damage capabilities - if the boss is low enough (say 30s hp%) you should be able to pop heroism once g2 returns from nest 8 and just ignore the remaining nests and burn - at this point all people who have been flying also have 3 charges, so they can grab nutrients during the burn and roll the damage buff. If you're almost there but not quite, send G1 down to do nest 9 and I'd probably just still ignore nest 10. Once they're back from 9, hero then and go for it. If it doesn't work *still*, then you might need to keep doing a few nests until you can go for it.

Last thing to note is that quills lines up with the even nests in general, so make sure the healer there can handle healing 4 people through quills. The people at that nest should also be aware that if quills is going on, they should stay where they are in general - do not move until it finishes or they run the risk of dying quickly. Sometimes it lines up that the nest is cleared fast enough that you can all be back on the main platform before quills happens or right as it starts casting, which is fine - but also means that you don't go flying random places afterwards out of healing range.

and a tl;dr for nutrients - if you are at a down nest, wait until just before feed happens for the *next* nest, fly up and grab one as you *return* to the main platform. For an up nest, wait until the feed happens *for that nest*, fly up and grab nutrients *as you go* to the nest.

So there you go - a strat for 2 tanks, 2 healers where your tanks won't take more than 2 talon rakes (which should be easily survivable).
Edited by Leotharius on 5/20/2013 12:26 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
I don't see why you would personally


A boss like this can be killed either way with a negligable difference in length or execution. I may simply have our ret try to use a shield and survive the guardians (assuming he can not be crit). Tank survivability has been a problem even with 3 healers and we've had to take 3 rakes frequently while one tank is away. I understand the way that most guilds do it and that most people that have killed it will just come in here and post how it's unneccessary but I do plan on attempting it that way.

We have a paladin tank (as well as the ret) and may not attempt solo tanking iron qon. We are such rebellious individuals.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
I don't know how well paladins take it, but I just swap blood presence and tank 25 man guardians now with no issue.
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100 Dwarf Paladin
15290
We 2-tank, A going to 1/3/8/12, B going to 2/4/7/9. Have to wait a few seconds for Talon Rake before leaving for 4 and 9. Nobody eats a third stack.
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90 Tauren Paladin
16365
Talon Rake rotation:

Tank 1, Gain 1 stack and head to nest guardian

Tank 2, Gains 2 stacks

Tank 1, Gains 2 stacks and head to nest guardian

Tank 2, Gains 2 stacks

Tank 1, Gains 3 stacks and heads to nest guardian

Tank 2, Gains 2 stacks

Tank 1, Gains 2 stacks

Tank 2, Gains 3 stacks

Tank 1, Gains 2 stacks during Lust and Burn Ji-kun

Tank 2, gains 2 stacks

Did something pretty much like this, the tanks will inevitably get 3 stacks at one point, but it's really not a prob with a defensive cooldown or external.
They might just need more health, but I see 0 reason to use 3 tanks. It is a viable option, but it's far from needed, might just need to change strat.
They should be taunting off between Talon Rakes to reset Infected Talons. I think the absolute most they should get is 4.

2 heal or 3 heal doesn't much matter, we found 3 healing was better for first kills, but realistically, there isn't much a reason to 3 heal this. The main reason for 3 healing can be to help with Quills, but 2 healing, you can just send another dps to the nest and come up early, just leaving 2 heals on platform full time.
If you want to be safe, I recommend 3 healing it, if dps is an issue, I don't.

I've done both nest groups in our raid group, and there isn't much a difference, at least how we did it with 3 healers in 10m ( one group would have to wait on Quills, the other group never had to )
Was something like this on our first kill.

Nest Group 1( nutriment buff, no nest guardians ) - 1 ( gets feed on 2 ), 3(gets feed before going to 3), 5(gets feed before going to 5), 7(gets feed before going to 7), 9(gets feed before going to 9), leave immediately and go to 11, get feathers on 13 if desired ( depends on dps ), nuke boss

Nest group 2 ( primary nest group, guardian nests ) - 2, 4(gets feed before going to 4), 6(gets feed before going to 6), 8(leaves before down-draft), 10(leaves early), 12(gets feed before going to 12)

For the most part, the healer, if a healer is going to a nest, and a tank, always got the Primal Nutriment buff.
It's a very nice damage increase, but it's also a nice healing increase. If groups are set up for healers to get feathers, they should be utilizing it on Primal Nutriment when possible. We have a different healer go down for 1-2-3.

Depending on dps, you can lust and burn around 8-9 on Nests, or what we did on our very first kill, was do up to 13, and only the 13th nest with the four strongest dps to get feathers for Nutriment. Berserk is roughly 1 minute after 12th nest iirc

As far as Caw and Quills is concerned, I call it out when Ji-Kun is casting, and our mobile ranged + mage can generally avoid it. The mage is the only one that tends to have survival issues after getting a nutriment.
We found it easier to stack up for Quills to heal through it, but must make sure that you do it after a Caw. We kept a Disc Priest on platform full time to SS it. Our mage received Hand of Protection outside of Ice Block on Quills.

TLDR:
3 healing, 2 healing, 3 tanking all work, but really, you can just change your strat whichever way you decide to kill it.
We still 3 heal H Ji-Kun to be safe, and mainly because that's the first way we killed the boss.

It's probably Infected Talons, or the way your tanks are going about it combined with Talon Rake, it was one of the few early mistakes we made, and the reason we didn't get it the week we started on him.
A log report would be very useful, even though it isn't that incredibly accurate on this fight.
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90 Goblin Priest
14315
A boss like this can be killed either way with a negligable difference in length or execution. I may simply have our ret try to use a shield and survive the guardians (assuming he can not be crit). Tank survivability has been a problem even with 3 healers and we've had to take 3 rakes frequently while one tank is away. I understand the way that most guilds do it and that most people that have killed it will just come in here and post how it's unneccessary but I do plan on attempting it that way.

We have a paladin tank (as well as the ret) and may not attempt solo tanking iron qon. We are such rebellious individuals.


Why don't you just have your tanks play better?
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90 Troll Druid
14480
05/19/2013 11:43 PMPosted by Emmey
With two Paladins, and one being a tank, you will never find use for the third tank, unless you really want to get rid of a DPS or healer for whatever reason. It's much more fun with a DK + Warrior :P


Yer, I tanked the boss most of the time with the warrior tank doing all the platform tanking... Taking 4 Talon Rake is ok as a pally because of Shield of Righteousness (can't imagine other tanks doing it though)... It's not optimal but cuts down coordination by a lot...


It's doable as a bear as long as you are topped off before it happens. Glyphed Might of Ursoc + Survival Instincts works, given that it's likely to happen only once in the encounter (glyph gives it a five-minute cooldown but adds 20 percent more HP). [This gives me about 1.06m HP instead of just 710k.]
Edited by Windytusks on 5/20/2013 7:47 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
Did this last night. Had 2 groups:

1 - Warlock, Disc, Rogue & tank when needed. Did platforms 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7.
2 - Monk, Elemental shaman spec'd Conductivity, and Mage. Did platforms 2, 8.

I was in group 2, and our warrior tank came to them. We had a bit of a shuffle on platform 8 since tank stacks didn't work out and group 2 ended up dead, but were still able to kill her the adds overtook us.
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100 Human Warrior
21090
1: Four DPS group
2: Two DPS, one tank, one healer group; first group burns a feather charge getting feed
3: Group 1 again, feather charges are refreshed to 4 (DJ says max charges is 3, but this is incorrect) and dropped to 3 on the fly up; tank group grabs feed
4: Tank group, first group grabs feed
5: Half of group 1, other half grabs feed
6: Second half of group 1, first half grabs feed
7: Group 1
8: Tank group, first group grabs feed
9/10: Group 1 handles bottom, top is ignored; from this point on everyone burns feathers on every feed and we finish the boss.

The tank in the tank group for our kills is me, though we could probably use our other tank for the 8th nest if we wanted. But we never have to, so it doesn't matter that much.
Edited by Thecheat on 5/20/2013 8:56 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
I don't know how well paladins take it, but I just swap blood presence and tank 25 man guardians now with no issue.


Good to hear. I'll start off with having our pally stay ret and macro on a shield/onehander and use cooldowns. Can the guardians not crit you?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10510
Keep in mind I'm not trying to have a go at you here, but seriously, why can't your tanks just handle the normal method?
I never got why people go to such great lengths to try zany, convoluted experimental strats or gimmicky work-arounds when you could just improve your play a tiny amount and yield much greater results for less headaches.
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