I wish pallies didn't have a GCD

90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Hell, make TV to refresh Inquisition like evenom do with SnD =D


Hell no, and stop perpetuating that incompetence.
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100 Blood Elf Warrior
9495
Sorry =/

Can we have Inq off the GCD then? : (
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100 Tauren Paladin
12015
It doesn't need to be, not for PvE at least. I could see having the PvP 4-set doing something to Inquisition instead, but right now Inquisition in PvE is fine.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Sorry =/

Can we have Inq off the GCD then? : (


If you want TV to refresh Inq (or just have Inq moved off the GCD) as a set bonus for PvP, that would be fine and agreeable. But it's not needed for PvE since we have nothing to spend HoPo on except Inq and damage, where a Rogue also has a DoT to manually maintain. Also, Assassination is the only spec to passively refresh SnD since they need to use Envenom more than Sub or Combat need to Eviscerate, as Assassination relies heavily on their poison damage from Envenom and their mastery.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
6110
Sorry =/

Can we have Inq off the GCD then? : (


If you want TV to refresh Inq (or just have Inq moved off the GCD) as a set bonus for PvP, that would be fine and agreeable. But it's not needed for PvE since we have nothing to spend HoPo on except Inq and damage, where a Rogue also has a DoT to manually maintain. Also, Assassination is the only spec to passively refresh SnD since they need to use Envenom more than Sub or Combat need to Eviscerate, as Assassination relies heavily on their poison damage from Envenom and their mastery.


So then why not remove Inq off the GCD or have it refreshed as a default? So that we can better spend HoPo on our damaging abilities (all 2 of them). This would at least make it a QoL improvement, and maybe even a slight DPS improvement, since it frees up a GCD.

Also, I still don't understand why you're adamantly against changing Ret pallies. Do you not think that there is much room for improvement?
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Because it is absolutely and completely unnecessary. We have a very meager skill-check mechanic for a reason - because, shocker, you actually have to pay attention to what you're doing to be good. Facerolling for Paladins went out with Wrath; we do NOT need that sort of lazy gameplay to come back.

Inq off the global is one thing; it's not necessarily bad, but it certainly doesn't improve things unless you're absolutely terrible at current Ret. Passive refreshes for Inq baseline is just completely ludicrous unless we get a DoT to maintain alongside Inq and mana costs attached to everything. That's why Assassination has its refresh mechanic - even their finishers cost Energy, and the Combo generators cost Energy, so they have a lot more to manage.

Simple fact isL We just don't need it!
Edited by Grôgnárd on 5/21/2013 10:28 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
9970
Do you not think that there is much room for improvement?

Personally, I just don't think taking abilities off the GCD for the sake of having them off the GCD is improvement.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
17175
Yeah, if they add a refresh mechanic for Inq then they might as well just completely remove it entirely because what would be the point of there being a button that you never use?

Assassination gets a refresh on SnD because they need to maintain other things as well (primarily rupture, it's essentially takes the place of SnD in the rotation and how it's managed), they still need Snd because it's still a huge dps buff to them, and SnD still needs to exist because of the other specs. Inquisition is a COMPLETELY different situation entirely. There's no other buff/dot or similar mechanic for ret to maintain, and they're the only spec that has Inq. So if you remove the need to manage it then what purpose does it serve?

tl;dr: Inquisition and Mut's SnD refresh are in now way, shape, or form even remotely similar. Stop trying to compare them as if they're the same thing. You wanna compare Inq to SnD, then compare it to Combat, we gotta keep hitting SnD every 20~30 seconds too, deal with it.

But that's what i'm trying to say. Keeping Inq up and managing CDs are what ret boils down to, without much regard for our skills. I just wish our skills had more synergy with each other.
Really? You're trying to say that it's a bad idea and that it makes the rotation MORE boring? Because you said that you wanted this change made because the rotation was already boring, which implies you thought that this change would make it more interesting, which is just plain wrong.

How does taking away the gcd create synergy between abilities? What exactly do you mean by "synergy" because I don't think it means what you think it means (also, you killed my father, prepare to die). If anything Inquisition is the ONLY element of synergy in the rotation, so again, taking it away or adding a refresh mechanic once again does the opposite of what you're asking for.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
With our t15 bonuses, we actually have a great deal of synergy between our abilities!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
6110
Yeah, if they add a refresh mechanic for Inq then they might as well just completely remove it entirely because what would be the point of there being a button that you never use?

Assassination gets a refresh on SnD because they need to maintain other things as well (primarily rupture, it's essentially takes the place of SnD in the rotation and how it's managed), they still need Snd because it's still a huge dps buff to them, and SnD still needs to exist because of the other specs. Inquisition is a COMPLETELY different situation entirely. There's no other buff/dot or similar mechanic for ret to maintain, and they're the only spec that has Inq. So if you remove the need to manage it then what purpose does it serve?

tl;dr: Inquisition and Mut's SnD refresh are in now way, shape, or form even remotely similar. Stop trying to compare them as if they're the same thing. You wanna compare Inq to SnD, then compare it to Combat, we gotta keep hitting SnD every 20~30 seconds too, deal with it.

But that's what i'm trying to say. Keeping Inq up and managing CDs are what ret boils down to, without much regard for our skills. I just wish our skills had more synergy with each other.
Really? You're trying to say that it's a bad idea and that it makes the rotation MORE boring? Because you said that you wanted this change made because the rotation was already boring, which implies you thought that this change would make it more interesting, which is just plain wrong.

How does taking away the gcd create synergy between abilities? What exactly do you mean by "synergy" because I don't think it means what you think it means (also, you killed my father, prepare to die). If anything Inquisition is the ONLY element of synergy in the rotation, so again, taking it away or adding a refresh mechanic once again does the opposite of what you're asking for.


I guess i'm trying to say that I just wish ret spec had more depth to it. Just something that kind of ties our skills together, in some fashion, other than just to generate HoPo. I know that sounds ambiguous, but I just can't explain it. The involvement (for me at least) I get from playing a DK, rogue, or even a WW monk just feels tighter. Like there's more to look out for other than AoW procs and Inq uptime.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Pally to death, but I feel like the developers didn't spend much time looking at how they could make our toolkit more dynamic. Instead they kind of quick-fixed things by giving us quick buffs that, while are always welcome, dont add much to the 'funness' of our class.

If I'm the only one who feels this way about the class, then I'll stop replying because I don't want to waste your time. But I can't be the only one who feels this way, can I?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8465
Make Inquisition out of the GCD and i'll be a happy panda.


I'd rather have them remove all the hand spells from our GCD. I can't tell you how many times I have wasted a precious global using freedom that could have won me the battle/game.

Inquisition is not difficult to manage.

Try popping in and then out of metamorphosis to apply single target dots, fun stuff.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
05/22/2013 01:58 AMPosted by Dingys
I guess i'm trying to say that I just wish ret spec had more depth


That much I can agree with. But taking Inq off the global, or passively refreshing it, would take away what little depth there actually is.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8465
05/22/2013 05:20 AMPosted by Grôgnárd
I guess i'm trying to say that I just wish ret spec had more depth


That much I can agree with. But taking Inq off the global, or passively refreshing it, would take away what little depth there actually is.


I feel like I have more at my disposal on my 35 WW monk than I do on my Ret.
There is just more to work with.
If more depth was added to Ret, it would likely preform better.
It just blows my mind how so many people have such a huge issue with Inquisition.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
It just blows my mind how so many people have such a huge issue with Inquisition.


Most of the complaintants are likely Wrath rerolls that want us to go back to facerolling. Others are semi-legitimate PvP issues. I can see the problem in PvP, but I can also see the tactical side of knowing best when to use it rather than tying to maintain it as in PvE.

In the end, though, PvP is really the only area where I could agree that some minor tweak could be necessary, but it needs to be handled in such a way that it doesn't affect PvE.
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100 Human Paladin
19415
Spec Divine Purpose and macro Templar's Verdict to cast multiple times. Hope for procs and get an old fashioned dervish of death on rare occasion, heh.
Edited by Airc on 5/23/2013 2:22 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
5470
We need more melee ability so when holy spells get shut down. Other classes have more than one school of magic so maybe a little more weapon damage abilities are needed. so we are not shut down 100% there is no reason for 99% of my action bar blacking out on me for what seems to be an eternity.
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100 Human Paladin
13775
without an actual GCD, you could just macro every ability into a single macro, in the order of importance, and then just spam that macro over and over. It might not be 100% optimal, but it would be really crazy just the same, and multiple abilities would be executing at the same time, causing huge damage with each press. You could even make the one macro repeat itself several times by copy and pasting the same things over and over until you make a macro as large as you can (or use an addon that lets you make longer macros).

TV would only fire if it had enough Holy Power, otherwise it would fall through to next ability, if that was on CD, it would then fall through to next ability, and so on and so forth. That's how it currently works for spells off the GCD. It falls through, attempting to execute every cast inside the macro until it either reaches the end, or it encounters a spell that has a GCD (at which point it exits and won't execute anything past that point).

Basically, it would be like Rift macros lol (unless they've changed macros since launch).
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