Anyone else hate direction New Horde is going

1 Troll Druid
0
I was always big on lore and rp with WoW, and just came back to the game after a 2.5 year break... and I almost don't want to play Horde any more. What made me fall in love with the Horde back in WC3 was the idea of this "Savage but Noble" race, and everything with Garrosh and the direction of the horde story in general since cata (And lesser extend Wrath with the Horde's actions in Northrend, both with the Warsong Offensive and the Forskaen) has really soured that. Even with Garrosh presumably getting removed from power soon, what I loved about the New Horde just feels... tainted by all of this.

Almost makes me want to go alliance, but they've never really appealed to me that much sadly. Oh well.
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100 Orc Warrior
18735
No, the only problem with the Horde atm is that Garrosh can't appreciate his allies, and Vol'jin can't be a man and appreciate Garrosh's tactical genius (see mana bomb)

But Thrall's Horde can die in a fire.
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1 Troll Druid
0
But Thrall's Horde can die in a fire.


Thats my issue. I loved the idea of Thrall's horde, not what it is now.
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90 Human Warlock
4395
Well, you're comparing pretty opposite philosophies.

Thrall's Horde was about survival and honor above all else, working together to secure a future for races that would otherwise fail alone. Sure, you had groups like the Forsaken that were willing to wipe out life on Azeroth to achieve their goals, but besides the Wrathgate, the Forsaken were held relatively in check by Sylvanas's respect for Thrall and his rules.

Garrosh's Horde, on the other hand, is about ruthless aggression. Although he comes across as hot-headed and reckless, everything Garrosh has done so far has been a surgical strike against his sworn enemy, the Alliance. Not everything has been pretty, but he has succeeded in turning the tides of war where Thrall had failed. This directly conflicts with the code of honor that bound Thrall's Horde, but it has allowed the Horde to become a truly dominant power.

If left unchecked, Garrosh will tear the world apart with his warmongering, yes, but it can't be denied that he's a brilliant tactician.

Oh, and yes. I would love for the old Horde to return.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
05/22/2013 02:40 PMPosted by Valiox
he's a brilliant tactician.


If Northrend is any indication, he's less skilled than he thought in Garadar. You, the player character, only survive because Saurfang has your back. Every victory he's ever claimed over the Alliance involved some sort of "superweapon" and often was only temporary. In several places, it was corrupted elementals that were used to storm (no pun intended) Alliance positions that they couldn't otherwise break through.

In Stonetalon, it was an incendiary device that probably would have been a tactical credit if his general hadn't wasted it on a neutral target. ((His famous disciplinary action to that general instead made it a credit to his ethics, which have since been assassinated.)) This is a case of incompetent underlings, not the incompetence of the "top brass."

But ultimately, his tactical brilliance is an informed skill at best, because in 9 out of 10 cases, it doesn't show.

But I can't answer the title question because it's kind of off: It's being pulled in about 5 different directions at once and the results are now easy to see.
Edited by Traleda on 5/22/2013 3:18 PM PDT
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Garrosh did good in Icecrown, don't get me wrong. But here's why he is better off as a small-time leader, rather than overall Warchief:

1) Kills Cairne (Even though it was Cairne's choice to duel), forcing Cairne's younger son, Baine, to take control.

2) Banishes Vol'jin from Orgrimmar, and then attempts to take over Echo Isles.

3) Segregates all of Orgrimmar, forcing the Trolls into the outskirts and allowing the Goblins to pollute their water supply.

4) Thwarts Sylvanas' entire weaponry development, almost causing them to lose the war against the Worgen.

5) Sets a bad reputation for most Orcs by making them look like mindless puppets to Hellscream.

6) Kills members of the Blue Dragonflight and steals their most sacred object, the Focusing Iris.

7) Uses the Focusing Iris to construct a Mana Bomb, something that Lor'themar clearly warned the Warchief not to.

8) Attacks Theramore and almost kills Jaina Proudmoore, who only years before helped save the Orcs by killing her own father.

9) Obliterates Theramore, killing high-ranking Generals of the Alliance and also killing Rhonin, leader of the Kirin Tor.

10) Kalecgos joins the Alliance for good, adding on to the Alliance's forces.

11) Jaina Proudmoore takes over the Kirin Tor, turning Dalaran into a floating fortress, almost killing off the Sunreavers and banning all Horde from the magical capital of the world.

Summary: We kill Generals of the Alliance, while turning the Kirin Tor against us, turning the Blue Dragonflight against us, and destroying the trust of Jaina Proudmoore.

And all of this at what cost? We got a swamp. Filled with spiders, Ogres, some Grimtotem, and a couple Murlocs here and there. Woopdy freakin' do. I think the people of the Horde should each get a free shot at Garrosh, then tie his throat to a Mana Bomb and toss him in the Great Sea. When the bomb touches the bottom, we can watch the explosion safely from the new and freed Orgrimmar.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
When the bomb touches the bottom


I hope it doesn't land in the Maelstrom.

Would a mana bomb be strong enough to rip apart the World Pillar again?

Because Therazane would NOT be happy at Round 2 of mortal intrusion.
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I hope it doesn't land in the Maelstrom.

Would a mana bomb be strong enough to rip apart the World Pillar again?

Because Therazane would NOT be happy at Round 2 of mortal intrusion.


A Mana Bomb is like... A smaller Nuke. It's got power to it, but it wouldn't tear apart an Elemental construction. I honestly just want Garrosh dead. Big time.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12905
I hope it doesn't land in the Maelstrom.

Would a mana bomb be strong enough to rip apart the World Pillar again?

Because Therazane would NOT be happy at Round 2 of mortal intrusion.


A Mana Bomb is like... A smaller Nuke. It's got power to it, but it wouldn't tear apart an Elemental construction. I honestly just want Garrosh dead. Big time.


Honestly I think death is too nice

Garrosh can live eternally
crippled
and on fire
covered in sheet metal
that is now molten from the fire
for eternity
in deepholme

I liked Thrall's horde more than Garrosh's but honestly I think any horde is better than Garrosh's.
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100 Human Warrior
13420
I personally love the direction that Garrosh's Horde is taking. And this is coming from a guy who untill recently has only played Horde side since mid BC (My main is a Troll Rogue). Don't get me wrong, I loved Thralls Horde very much, and I have a mancrush on Thrall as well as the fact I like the idea of the Noble Savage styled faction. I just think that the current direction feels more dynamic from a story perspective.

Think about it. Since it's inception in WC3, we've been given a glimpse that the traditional "evil monster" races aren't evil because they typical have been in fantasy lore, but that they're people with their own sets of morality and ethics and what constitutes as right and wrong, and that honor for them is very different. With Thrall, he set out to redeem the Orcs from their past while under Demonic control, show the Trolls that they can survive without being savage and cruel, and learn what it means to have honor from the Tauren. Right now what we're witnessing is what happens when you give unlimited power to a man who for most of his life felt he was worthless because of what his father did, and then gets turned around and treated as a hero because - guess what - his father is actually viewed as a hero of the New Horde.

The thing is, Vol'jin and the others who first established the horde view it far different than Garrosh does. Vol'jin and Thrall view it as a brotherhood bound by the fact that the races in the horde have no one else to turn to, and alone they'll fall apart, but together they'll succeed. Garrosh never had to worry about that. He never had to free his people and return them to their shamanistic roots, or rescue his people from servitude and fear, or had his people horribly betrayed by the very people they trusted after the Lich King destroyed their home and killed off in staggering numbers, or even help carve a kingdom in a hostile land. To Garrosh, he gets rescued from his depression, told his Daddy was actually pretty awesome, and - oh - those guys over there hate us with a passion and won't hesitate to murder us because we're in the middle of a cold war. Whats the man suppose to do when given the reigns?

Does that make what he's done right? No. But it's interesting to empathize with the villain while working on the rebellion because it makes it feel far more interesting to become involved in when it's not so black and white.
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91 Blood Elf Monk
8115
My annoyance stems from the Horde being the bad guys yet again. How many times will the Orcs have to be savage idiots then go through another "redemption" until it sticks?

What drew me into the Horde was the idea that the monstrous creatures we usually see and use as mooks in fantasy being able to be heroes as well as the traditionally "good" races. It's interesting to think that the supposedly goody elves, dwarves, and humans may be treating the orcs, trolls, and minotaurs just as badly, being as much the monster as their enemies. It's more interesting than, "It's an orc, therefore it's evil. It's a human, therefore it's good."

Alliance and Horde both should be shades of grey, not black or white. Alliance should be just as capable of "evil" acts as the Horde. The Horde should be just as capable of "good" acts as the Alliance.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13010
05/23/2013 10:45 AMPosted by Kailiang
My annoyance stems from the Horde being the bad guys yet again.


I felt this through the entire expansion. I was close to unsubscribing, but Riko was funny enough to lighten my mood some.

05/23/2013 10:45 AMPosted by Kailiang
How many times will the Orcs have to be savage idiots then go through another "redemption" until it sticks?


I hate the idea of another orc redemption storyline. But at this point it looks like Garrosh is likely under the influence of the Sha of Pride and will probably get a redemption. Ugh.
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100 Orc Warrior
18735
hat drew me into the Horde was the idea that the monstrous creatures we usually see and use as mooks in fantasy being able to be heroes as well as the traditionally "good" races. It's interesting to think that the supposedly goody elves, dwarves, and humans may be treating the orcs, trolls, and minotaurs just as badly, being as much the monster as their enemies. It's more interesting than, "It's an orc, therefore it's evil. It's a human, therefore it's good."Alliance and Horde both should be shades of grey, not black or white. Alliance should be just as capable of "evil" acts as the Horde. The Horde should be just as capable of "good" acts as the Alliance.


Dominance and supremacy brought me to the Horde, because I knew the Alliance couldn't stomach anything like it.
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