Comparing PVP Gear to PVE Gear for PVP

90 Human Death Knight
7745
Is there any way to effectively calculate this now (with the changes to pvp, including but not limited to pvp power)? For armor as well as weapons?

The other question is: should I go with season 12 2her or lionheart executioner for pvp?

There's probably something I'm missing but your input is appreciated - thanks.
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The loss of PVP power is pretty huge for using a raid weapon over a Honor/Conquest item. Stick to PVP gear in PVP as much as you can.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12255
Besides the weapon and trinket would it be more beneficial to have raid gear in instanced PvP than Malevolent due to significantly higher primary stats?

(Would prefer having a response without QQ)
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90 Human Death Knight
7745
thanks Arathorin - ill spend the gold on the executioner then or do some lfr post 90

@ Ageha and for continuation --- and @ what point is the stat determination made. item level is item level but it does not include an adjustment for PVP power. so the comparison of item levels is worthless - how do you balance certain pieces of gear that are or could be close?
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90 Orc Death Knight
12705
05/23/2013 03:00 PMPosted by Arathorin
The loss of PVP power is pretty huge for using a raid weapon over a Honor/Conquest item. Stick to PVP gear in PVP as much as you can.


LOL says the troll in pve gear.

PVE gear(only 522 gear and heroic) is now better for PVP either instanced or world PVP than tyrannical gear and LFR gear is a lot better than malevolent.


Ideally you want to wear

any PvE slot that gives you more Gem slots then the PvP Counterpart AND that also has a slot bonus of 120+ STR

currently the BIS set up for PvP DK would be (INSIDE ARENA'S/BG/RBGs)

PvE Neck (if you have the Terra cotta necks with the socket LFR+)
PvE Cape (if you have the cape with the socket bonus LFR+) or Legendary cape
PvE Bracers ( again only if you have the socket bonus bracers LFR+)
PvE Rings (if you have the rings with the socket bonus LFR+)
PvE Belt (HoF belt (N/H) or Jin'rohk belt (LFR +)
PvE Boots (crafted with 2 red sockets)

PvP Weapon - all weapons are 498 so you cant top 6100 PvP power also pvp weapons now have Crit and mastery (instead of just having Crit).
PvP Gloves - glove bonus is invaluable for quick RP generation (20 RP chains)
PvP Helm - get your 2 set PvP Bonus also no 3 socket helm so PvP one is better in BG/Arena/RBG

Shado-Pan Trink
+
PvP proc Trink / DMF (2/2) (humans or yolo 2s Desecration builds)

or

Shado-Pan + PvP trink

The choice then becomes do you want your risen Zombies from PvE 2 set + 2 extra sockets. Or do you want Double Death grip.

personally Double death grip is just to invaluable for PvP imho so i would be choosing which extra socket PvE item is better stated then the PvP equivalent.

which means LFR Legs off Lei shen since the leg socket bonus will still remain 180STR and have 1 reds 2 yellow.
Edited by Doomgard on 5/23/2013 4:04 PM PDT
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90 Orc Death Knight
12705
Just in case any DKS were wondering

ill list a BIS set for 2 Hnd Frost (that keeps double death grip) i wont list Ra-den drops to be realistic.

HELM - PvP Helm
NECK - Necklace of the Terra-Cotta Vanquisher
SHOULDERS - PvP Shoulders
CAPE - Tigerclaw Cape
CHEST - PvP Chest
BRACERS - Bracers of Constant Implosion
GLOVES - PvP Gloves
BELT - Cloudbreaker Greatbelt
LEGS - Legplates of the Lightning Throne
BOOTS - Haunted Steel Treads
RING 1 - Band of the Scaled Tyrant
RING 2 - PvP Ring of your choice
Trinket 1 - Shado-Pan / PvP Proc Trink / PvP on USE (dont use if Engineer)
Trinket 2 - PvP trink (CC Break)

WEAPON - PvP Weapon (no 496 PvE weapon can match the 6100 PvP power you will loose)

For World PvP just look at your BiS DPS set and /equip
Edited by Doomgard on 5/23/2013 4:35 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
13610
currently the BIS set up for PvP DK would be (INSIDE ARENA'S/BG/RBGs)

PvE Neck (if you have the Terra cotta necks with the socket LFR+)
PvE Cape (if you have the cape with the socket bonus LFR+) or Legendary cape
PvE Bracers ( again only if you have the socket bonus bracers LFR+)
PvE Rings (if you have the rings with the socket bonus LFR+)
PvE Belt (HoF belt (N/H) or Jin'rohk belt (LFR +)
PvE Boots (crafted with 2 red sockets)


Please screenshot the scaled down stats of those PvE gears inside PvP instances. Blizz mentioned that sockets count towards iLevel budgets, it will be interesting to see if they are underbudgeted.
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90 Human Hunter
10580
Pvp gear in instanced pvp is better in pretty much every single case except for some trinkets and set bonuses. Pvp power doesn't cost anything in the ilvl budget and you'll have the same ilvl as someone who's in pve gear..there's pretty much no way for pve gear to be better then pvp gear in arenas outside of some set bonuses..
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90 Human Death Knight
12620
Yeah, you should completely ignore everything doomguard said as he does not understand how itemization works and is basing all his decision on claims by others that also don't understand how itemization works.
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90 Human Death Knight
12620
my favorite part was where someone told him something about 120str socket bonuses so he said that was one of the requirements for pve gear to be better and then the only item he listed with a decent socket bonus takes 2 yellows to get it
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90 Orc Death Knight
10825
Pvp gear in instanced pvp is better in pretty much every single case except for some trinkets and set bonuses. Pvp power doesn't cost anything in the ilvl budget and you'll have the same ilvl as someone who's in pve gear..


No, it is not. This is 5.3 now, not 5.2 anymore. PVE gear that is over 496 (even though its scaled down) is BETTER than PVP gear of any level.

I even ran a test myself and ran several bgs in both pve and pvp gear (full male, couple of tyr pcs, all gemmed for power) and in my PVE gear I sliced and diced through the alli like they were nothing and my dps was CONSIDERABLY higher.
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90 Orc Death Knight
3585
05/24/2013 07:23 AMPosted by Jagatron
Pvp gear in instanced pvp is better in pretty much every single case except for some trinkets and set bonuses. Pvp power doesn't cost anything in the ilvl budget and you'll have the same ilvl as someone who's in pve gear..


No, it is not. This is 5.3 now, not 5.2 anymore. PVE gear that is over 496 (even though its scaled down) is BETTER than PVP gear of any level.

I even ran a test myself and ran several bgs in both pve and pvp gear (full male, couple of tyr pcs, all gemmed for power) and in my PVE gear I sliced and diced through the alli like they were nothing and my dps was CONSIDERABLY higher.

Okay so you tested full raid gear vs crap malv and a few tyr pieces. Way to be smart about it. And you aldo gemmed full pvp power. Which imo is absurd.
Most people are already at full try
Edited by Cháin on 5/24/2013 8:13 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
05/24/2013 07:23 AMPosted by Jagatron
Pvp gear in instanced pvp is better in pretty much every single case except for some trinkets and set bonuses. Pvp power doesn't cost anything in the ilvl budget and you'll have the same ilvl as someone who's in pve gear..


No, it is not. This is 5.3 now, not 5.2 anymore. PVE gear that is over 496 (even though its scaled down) is BETTER than PVP gear of any level.

I even ran a test myself and ran several bgs in both pve and pvp gear (full male, couple of tyr pcs, all gemmed for power) and in my PVE gear I sliced and diced through the alli like they were nothing and my dps was CONSIDERABLY higher.


Did you have any controls in your test, it may just be you were up against less skilled players when you had the pve gear on or w/e. In full pvp gear you have the same stats as someone would have in pve gear, as the pve gear stats are scaled down to 496. Even considering the case of extra sockets, many blizzard employees have explained that it is compensated by the fact that the base stats on the armor are lower.

PVP Power on gear is not budgeted into the ilvl calculation, and thus it is always better to use pvp gear in most item slots. The only slots I would say are up in the air would be trinkets, as that's only a debate between pvp power and w/e stats is on the trinket. With my other dk I'm sitting around 38-39% pvp power (Gemming full strength at the moment, rather than pvp power due to the pvp power nerfs and pvp gem nerfs).

TLDR: All stats being equal (which they should be/are due to scaling back of pve items), pvp gear trumps pve in instanced pvp due to getting free stats in the form of pvp power.

Edit: If you're comparing scaled down 496 pve gear to 476 pvp gear, then sure that may be up for debate, but the conquest 496 gear should be BIS for most item slots now.

Also, you're saying it's 5.3 like pve gear somehow got a buff in instanced pvp, the only thing they gained is base 65% resil, the rest of the changes were nerfs across the board for pve gear in pvp (ilvl scaling, trinket procs reduced and durations increased to lower burst, etc).
Edited by Yukihime on 5/24/2013 8:19 AM PDT
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90 Orc Death Knight
9195
Not saying you guys are bad but has anyone with some heavy skill and some high arena achs test this stuff. I'm currently running full pvp gear with the upgraded relic, which has me sitting at 495 itm. I feel fine in arenas and top damage in rbgs, but I'd like to know if there is some pve gear I should be running.
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90 Human Death Knight
8735
Not saying you guys are bad but has anyone with some heavy skill and some high arena achs test this stuff. I'm currently running full pvp gear with the upgraded relic, which has me sitting at 495 itm. I feel fine in arenas and top damage in rbgs, but I'd like to know if there is some pve gear I should be running.


Was just posting from my old dk to show the 2400+ rated 3s since people go crazy about profile checking. Currently hovering around 1850 on this character as have been gearing up and carrying a warrior + pally buddy of mine.

Haven't done much hardcore testing yet, (currently been switching from pvp power gemming to strength, since they nerfed pvp power and pvp gems both by near 50%) From the dev's comments, and via logic the conquest pvp gear should be the best for instanced content. With the ilvl scaling the only difference between pve and pvp gear stat wise is the different secondary stats that the pve pieces provide, while pvp gear will have pvp power at no ilvl cost.

As I mentioned before the only real slots where there should be debatable will be trinkets, as pvp trinkets only provide pvp power with X stat proc/on use, and around the same as a trinket such as relics provide.
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90 Human Death Knight
7745
i just thought and maybe this is retarded but i think i know what might fix this but im coming from a point of much less understanding than the rest of you

- implement a PVP item level - per each item
- implement a PVE item level - per each item

would that work? because there is a lot left to debate. comparing tyrannical weapon to lionheart executioner, how much better? and comparing tyran weapon to a pve weapon with higher than 510 or 520 item level etc.

i remain confused and ignorant. is what doomguard said earlier for BIS accurate and to be followed? sounds legit but again there are naysayers to his response
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90 Orc Death Knight
6940
The only way to prove that PvE is better is for someone to take screenshots of the lowered ilvl to truly see which one is better.

At this point I am a bit skeptical, but I still believe (more like hope) that pvp gear will be better.
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The only way to prove that PvE is better is for someone to take screenshots of the lowered ilvl to truly see which one is better.

here's the ring belt and pants that were in the list above

http://i44.tinypic.com/2rmxedz.jpg
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