Paladin Tanking Chest

14 Night Elf Druid
0
Hit on the tank chest would have been awful. If you're not aware, we're rolling in hit in heroic gear; Doomcloak, Primordius gloves, Ret tier helm (optional), Feathers, etc all have hit.

You are aware avoidance isn't bad at all for HP generation, right?
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100 Human Paladin
17840


I'd rather go with the legs from Horridon or Durumu. Pathogenic gloves have so much hit... fabled feather does not like those gloves.

I'm personally going for helm, shoulders, chest, and gloves for the prot 4 piece. I have the heroic horridon legs atm and I believe I won't be replacing those.

Then again, I did not do the math.


You use Fabled Feather as a tanking trinket? That's an interesting choice. I recognize that I'm using a pair of STR trinkets now myself but its only because I've had terrible luck with trinket so far. Fabled Feather just seems odd as that much Hit is bound to cause wasted stats somewhere and the biggest value doesn't last long at all.

Too much Hit is almost always going to be an issue anyway, but if its a huge issue (thanks to using Fabled Feather, for example), then yeah Pathogenic won't be as good (though they don't really have that much hit). But that misses out on Pathogenic's extra socket over tier which is what puts it over the top. Its got good itemization AND an extra socket, a combination you'll be hard pressed to find on any other off-tier piece.

For legs there are a lot of good choices. The ones off Horridon and Primordious are strong, but Whipping Ionization off Lei-Shen are also good thanks to the extra socket. Depending on how you value things, I could see an argument for using anyone of those three *or* Pathogenic gloves as your offspec. I've personally already upgraded my Dark Parasite legs (don't have tier there yet anyway) but I'd swap to tier legs and Pathogenic hands if I had the option.

For 4 piece, it varies by fight. Ballpark, each 20% of your health you take during DP (assuming once/minute) provides the defensive value of another ~400 Haste. Haste isn't a great defensive stat, but it does have some value, and the value is concentrated since you're getting the extra HoPo right then when you're getting slammed.


I see where you're coming from with the extra sockets. Makes for interesting decisions there, which I am sure Blizz is happy about.

I find fabled feather more useful just for the proc. The str value per stack is actually quite a bit above what the tooltip on the trinket states. It is 1946 str per stack with double upgraded heroic. The tooltip states it is 1622. The proc is beyond useful in my eyes. If I have a good amount of vengeance and time a sacred shield with the stack at 10 (19,460 strength (yay i can multiply by 10)), that's a massive shield. The amount of parry is also a great little bonus.

As for the 4pc, I still think it's quite useful. I really need to get it one of these days so I can see just how useful it is. I know one thing for sure, though: I would see the most out of that bonus one tanking heroic Tortos. Divine protection is up for each of the bat phases, and I am very easily taking 20% of my health very quickly, it's just that super sexy absorb shield in the fight mechanic prevents it from being extremely deadly. The 4pc does count absorbs as damage taken, right? I think I remember that being read somewhere.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
It counts all damage over the duration of Divine Protection - the damage is before all mitigation I think

it's DEFINITELY before absorbs, I don't know if it's after armor (like, EVERY mitigation) though
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90 Human Paladin
7295
Hit on the tank chest would have been awful. If you're not aware, we're rolling in hit in heroic gear; Doomcloak, Primordius gloves, Ret tier helm (optional), Feathers, etc all have hit.


No one forces you to use all that hit gear. Heck, I stay away from Expertise/Hit trinkets just for this reason.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
It's not a matter of being forced... the only other pieces for the slots are awful, while the hit/haste itemization is actually fairly good.
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90 Human Paladin
7295
It's not a matter of being forced... the only other pieces for the slots are awful, while the hit/haste itemization is actually fairly good.


There's quite a few pieces of Haste/Mastery gear. If you're over hit cap, might as well change all that hit to mastery anyhow and make those ShoRs mitigate more damage. Plenty of gear out there with no hit but no wasted stats.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
05/26/2013 07:28 PMPosted by Berith
There's quite a few pieces of Haste/Mastery gear.
But not for those slots, which is the point...

how am I supposed to change my heroic doomcloak to a haste/mastery piece? Do you think VP pieces have heroic equivalents (they don't)? Seriously, what you're saying is entirely pointless to the problem of "we have a lot of hit" because NONE of the hit pieces can be changed to haste/mastery.
Edited by Kangarooster on 5/26/2013 8:10 PM PDT
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100 Draenei Paladin
15515
Personally I don't think I'll go for 4-piece. Just shoulders / helm (the pieces without awful itemization for haste builds) and whatever haste/mastery pieces I can grab.
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100 Human Paladin
9240
I think a case could be made to use the tier chest/shoulder combo with 522 gear. I personally don't see the four-piece as being essential to tanking (granted, we're only 1/13 on Heroic progression, but I haven't had too much trouble staying alive on the fights we've tried). But we're looking at one HoPo per 20% health taken, while DP is up. I would think that the raw haste you could stack would give your Shield of the Righteous an uptime that would be more beneficial than a couple HoPo ever minute (in a best case scenario).

My math may be wrong here, but on 522 gear, if you only want the two-piece bonus, the choice would be to go with chest and shoulders. Every other slot is going to have a piece with haste and another useful stat besides the chest. Yes, the stats on the chest suck, but you can throw three haste gems in there since the socket bonus is garbage, and reforge a little extra into it, so for all intents and purposes, we're looking at 900-1200 haste off that alone with the trade off for avoidance stats. If you look at my gear, that would be a nice increase to haste, although I would lose a lot of mastery trying to cover the missing hit in addition to losing the mastery off the chest.

At 522, It's a tough call, and I think a lot of it depends on the other pieces of gear you have and the tier tokens you have available. I could see a strong argument for just doing max itemization because of the ludicrous amounts of haste you could produce. If you're looking to just stay alive and do a fair amount of dps, itemization will work just fine. If you're trying to get ranked in logs, then I can see where the tier bonuses might come in handy since they give more passive mitigation to help keep you alive as you try to stack vengeance. It ultimately depends on your play style and how the rest of your raid group performs.
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90 Human Paladin
7295
06/06/2013 02:49 PMPosted by Davisaar
if you only want the two-piece bonus,


The 2 pc bonus is even worse than the 4 pc. If you're not going for the 4 pc, might as well just say "screw the set" and getting the Retribution chest which has no wasted stats (exp/haste + 3 sockets).
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
19110
I also have H Feathers (reforged to haste). I'm at like 8% hit but it's really a better alternative to... okay, well, actually, I have zero other trinkets. So there's that.
Honestly, right now I'd prefer Rising Winds as the stacking STR is rather underwhelming when you have like 200k Vengeance, but loot in 10m is a fickle thing.
Its got good itemization AND an extra socket, a combination you'll be hard pressed to find on any other off-tier piece.
I actually like the DPS Qon gloves more if you're flooded with hit like I am, since crit>hit since... well, yeah, hit past excess is literally 100% useless.

Temporary solution to replacing Feathers with perhaps a H Lei Shen's Final Orders 2/2 and/or Fortitude+Rising Winds, though.

The excess of hit is actually why I'm sticking with H Horridon legs as (functionally) BiS over H Durumu legs. Okay, so Durumu legs have expertise rather than hit, but all the native hit on my gear is being reforged into expertise anyway, plus the more haste you have, the better mastery is, of course. I basically have enough haste to the point where I feel like mastery is a stat I almost rank as high as haste now, although never to the exclusion of haste of course.

I really, really, just dislike 4pc. Not only do you have to drop haste for it, pieces like the shoulders are more poorly itemized (hit/mastery instead of exp/mastery... when we're rolling in hit) so that's even more suboptimal.

Especially in 10m, I also value my DPS a lot more - to the point where I really just shun avoidance since they don't grant significant damage boosts.


I SEE YOU UNDERSTAND MY PROBLEM. I actually use the 502 expertise trinket for progression, and for fights where I might take damage that'll kill me. *shrug* 35k heal is better than nothing?

I have FFoJ, it puts me up to like 10% hit. :(
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