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while being able to use the warglaives would be nice, locks dual wielding seems a bit of a stretch not to mention would not fit with with stat priorities,
we already have an absorb in furyward,
what we really need is a flat damage reducer like shieldblock, stagger+purifying brew, SotR
having leveled this lock as a trail-tank finding to to be far more fun every step of the way then my pally durad, war, dk, still working on my monk, i found a few things on the way.
1 we have the base net survival, without putting mastery gear on
2 the play style is different in a good way as in rather then threat/extra survival being a given, we actually have to work for it during encounters
3 while the play is good it does need some adjusting,
the more people put in there 2cents the more likely it will be something happens, fyi we get the tank debuff now in PvP could be a good sign
after having numerous long debates about this particular topic 3 major issues keep coming up regardless of who starts the topic where.
Provocation was a real taunt in the MOP beta. They broke it on purpose just to stop locks from tanking. So, yea, fixing would be as easy as reverting that change.
The two sets of gear excuse they've thrown out a few times really makes no sense. Aside from trinkets, bears, cats, rogues, windwalkers, and drunk monks all roll on the same gear. Outside of tier pieces with obvious set bonuses, the primary reason for a kitty/bear to keep two sets is the different gems and chants.
If they want to force locks to use a different set for tanking and dps, they would only need to make dodge a stat worth gemming for. IMO, even this wouldn't be necessary, as it seems like a lock tank would probably be stacking stam and mastery at the expense of int anyway. EG, mastery/stam in yellow slots instead of int/mastery and int/stam in red. Not to mention the stam chants, leg armor, and shoulder scripts the would likely use.
Trying to shoehorn spirit gear into the spec would likely cause more problems than it solved. Not the least of which would be healers upset that tanks were needing on their gear. Nothing wipes a dungeon faster than healer who gets ninja'd, then chain fear pulls the rest of the dungeon and drops group. :p
at current priests are the only class that doesn't share gear, with the exception of int-plate.
at the moment mastery drops off too quick to gem into its more effective to gem into stam/haste to increase survival after reaching 20% mastery at the moment we also want to stack some crit but not until we hit 20% haste on gear, the reason for this its our primary threat build soulfire get an awesome 1.5s cast letting us sit comfy like at 45k in my gear while if you take soulleech getting a damage reducing shield of about 12k all in all best way to go,
and the leishen trinket makes us rather solid as well if add in lou-chins liquid courage and i'd say bis trinkets done right there
BLIZZARD IS GONA ADD A 4th WARLOCK SPEC NAMED DEMONHUNTER FOR TANKING
because we know they said they won;t add the class because warlocks are to much alike so simple bring illidan back to the black harvest and wala he trains warlocks on how to become a demonhunter *aka becoming a demon or infusing one into you*
OK, so it might not be too bad only angering one healer class. But, still, locks using spirit gear seems odder than them tanking to me. Either way though, different set stat priorities should be enough motivation for using two sets of gear, as it is for bears. And with separate tier sets for locks with bonuses made for tanking, the ability to use one set would be further diminished.
With regards to mastery, I didn't realize the drop off was bad enough to stack haste after 20%. That would still mean more stam and stam hybrid gems than in a dps set though.
Another thing locks should probably have for tanking is a viable auto-attack, especially while casting soul fire. For this, I'm thinking they should give back the shadowy auto-attack (but maybe make it engulf weapon in shadow instead of spamming tiny shadow bolts), and require a melee weapon for it and demo slash to get around the wand problem.
Also, since most (every?) demon hunter npc in the game tends to carry two warglaives, lock tanks should totally be able to dual wield.
well its around 6k mastery(25% reduction or so) it really starts to drop of rather rapidly so once your hitcapped its more point to point efficient to stack haste so if gear hasn't got either haste or mastery on it its better to go haste for better fury gen and faster soulfire. the 12.6k you get from darksoul brings us up to 38-40% reduction to give you an idea on how bad it scales
while crit can be nice the only time it generates additional fury is when you have lei-shen trinket infinite imps other then that we get no bonus from it apart from bigger Soulfires. which until its below 1.5s cast on MC proc it makes a bigger difference to stack haste
i suppose dual-wielding could be accomplished ala titans grip style. the idea of spirit gear is more of a makeshift solution seeing as blizz wants to avoid bear/catting so bad even though both guardian/ferals can still do it with some measure of success. other solutions are changing how stats work for DA ala BrMonks/Bears making one a clear winner over the other, where at the moment locks have nothing like that, i find either way acceptable
as for auto attack though i disagree entirely i see no reason for a caster class to require an auto attack to hold threat, it also does very little for most tank classes until stupid vengeance but i do see a need for better fury gen for single target encounters which would be accomplished by making haste effect DS,HoG,FW refresh timers or increasing the number or they could make it so a crit generates a charge of DS
Warlocks have tanked content all the way back to Vanilla.
Lock tanks on the caster Emperor in AQ40, Leotheras the Blind in Demonform in SSC, Grand Astromancer Capernian on the Kael fight in TK, Illidan Demonform in BT, Eredar Twins in Sunwell, Sartharion 3 Drakes 10 man. These are all examples of progression fights where Warlock tank was flat out optimal for a key component of your raid comp.
It's nothing new but has kept them within the design of their cloth wearing spellcasting niche. I don't see the need for drastic changes, with the DA glyph and the way Demo spec is in general there's so much more going on for lock tanking than there was before. Addressing their issues with fast attack melee bosses would be the only thing I can see as necessary. The toolkit of defensive cooldowns, self heals and absorbs that exists makes locks in many ways the Blood DK of casters, provided you spec/glyph accordingly.
I don't want to see locks with shields unless it's a magical shield created from souls, a clear bubble of inner torment protecting from outer torment. A few of the new Monk abilities and tricks that deflect damage back at its source are inspirational for a darker version for a lock tank. Your own power betrays you, something along these lines.
Old locks had something new locks don't, which is Searing Pain. DA handles the notion of threat of course but for anyone who remembers, Searing Pain was one hell of a snap aggro spell. Any oldschool tanks might remember that too.
Anyways, warlock tanks should be spellcasters, leave the shields, mail armor and other stuff alone.
searing pain oh how i miss you. they seriously need to give that back to us.
when i'm talking about SotR im talking about the damage reduction portion not the having to have a shield equipped, something like that would fit better then a nimble brew,stagger, shield block, savage defense. maybe a bloodshield type mechanic would work. but that would be a shield or a shield it needs more variety, the main reason i suggested a SotR equiv, or i we could get a completely new mechanic something like
strikes the target for 1.5sp??? cursing the target 1-10???charges, each charge reduces damage dealt to warlock by 2-5%??? generates 5DF per charge, 0-6s??? CD 0-30yd range (replaces drain life)
Consume Soul 100DF 30s CD
Consumes 1/2/3/4/5??? soul tap charges, healing the warlock for 5/10/15/20/25%??? max health per charge damaging target equal to healing done
that would give us a new mechanic to work with that would play with the whole lockish feel/flavor while being something to maintain and use for an extra self heal
as for gear in general i like the idea of a cloth tank, dual wielding im indifferent too though it would be nice to go all illidan on some stuff
I play my lock because I wanted a pure dps class. A tanking spec takes away from that and people may only want us to tank in groups if this is implemented. If I wanted to tank I would have rolled a tank class.
why do you want a pure dps class? is there an advantage to them? there is no known advantage of a pure dps class EXCEPT for having 3 specs to choose from that suits the fight, that is the advantage of pure dps class, but what if we make tank spec a 4th spec just like druids have theirs.
"people may only want us to tank in groups if this is implemented"
do you honestly believe that people will force you to be a tank just because you have a tank spec? how many warriors/druids/paladins/deathknights have you seen that are despised because they are not a tank? you play what you want, no one's gonna force you anything.
i did a handful of times you see progression sorta dictated lock tanking as such once upon a time
on the caster Emperor in AQ40, Leotheras the Blind in Demonform in SSC, Grand Astromancer Capernian on the Kael fight in TK, Illidan Demonform in BT, Eredar Twins in Sunwell, Sartharion 3 Drakes 10 man. These are all examples of progression fights where Warlock tank was flat out optimal for a key component of your raid comp.while yes all of those it was optional to use a lock but locks out performed the alternatives and i recreated this one because of DA, while locks have always been the meatiest caster, your argument is bad you should feel bad
why do you want a pure dps class?
That's not even a valid argument since warlocks will still be able to dps, no one is forcing you to tank. the same question could be asked to paladins "did you create a paladin to tank with?" if the pally happens to be a healer or dps then he'd probably answer "no".
how does having a 4th spec (hopefully a 4th one) affect your game experience as a dps warlock?
EDIT/ADDITION: and to answer your question, when I first played this game I did not even know the existence of tanks/dps/healers. I would have played any role that would fit my needs during the earlier days.
Edited by Glimreaper on 5/27/2013 7:50 AM PDT
one wants to bring this back to on topic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3k6wzCSbfI semi-current raid boss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVizzkwekr4 487 ilvl, easy as piss to get
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiEftBoFCIY vanilla raid boss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEQy899gaD0 bc raid boss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA3tXRQk8mo lich king raid boss
i might also mention we can at current tank all heroic dungeons and have the tank debuff in R/BG
aside from that i have heaps of ideas on how locks could tank with a handful of tweeks and it would be amazing
When WoW first came out wasn't Prot actually intended to be a tanking spec but just underpowered if you will at that time until BC came along i think.
who needs to queue when you can play with people you know LFrejects or LFdouchebags aren't where things are important like actually being able to pull your weight or do your job properly matter
again need to mention that player choice makes a difference if you get funneled into a spec well all i can say is grow a pair of something or put some pants on druids don't get the go heals/tank if they dont spec it neither do pallys,dks,warriors or monks just saying poor excuse is poor as is your argument with a quick L2P and cup of concrete allot more people would still be here
long story short off topic should be on-topic now unless you can add something valuable GTFO
Way back in the MoP beta, this topic was discussed in detail... A lot of the things that were said then are still true now, with the exception of certain mechanics that were changed to remove the ability of the warlock to "properly" tank.
Things that have changed since that post was done...
Of the above the thing that really killed warlock tanking was the taunt change. If you can't tank swap, you can't tank. It's pretty much that simple.
Not being able to queue as tank is not an issue. People are getting more used to preparing their own groups for challenge modes / heroic scenarios.
i might point out that the 250% armor is still puts us in the tank range for armor and that the mitigation giving from mastery comes within the realm of possibility for us to tank.
the whole dps issue should not be a problem seeing as hybrid tax is 0 now
the taunt is the biggest issue, while it can still be worked around old style taunt swapping where it was all maxxing threat then backing off to release the target, now if they gave us the taunt back that would be elite
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