5.3 Warlock Changes and the Rise of Aff PVP?

100 Blood Elf Warlock
13330
For any locks on the forums that are unaware and unsure of all the changes that happened to locks during this week's new patch I discuss and elaborate on them in a video alongside some footage of the new BG here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4ObEXhJZGo
It's my first ever commentary so sorry for any unorganized thoughts I have during the video.
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Mage
5810
so is affliction doable for rbgs now or still just destro?
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Warlock
13330
so is affliction doable for rbgs now or still just destro?

The amount of pressure now we will be able to do, especially with the everlasting affliction glyph being more viable that I mentioned in the video, in RBGs will be ridiculous. Affliction performance relies heavily on good gear so I'd say locks that are looking to RBG, but aren't in full tyrannical gear will probably want to gravitate more to destro, aff will still put out a competitive amount of damage though.
Reply Quote
100 Orc Warlock
15625
I'm seriously doubting your claim that using Everlasting Affliction as Affliction in PvP is a good idea. I am interested to see your reasoning for it, though. I don't have time to watch the video now, but I'll make sure I watch it tomorrow.
Reply Quote
Do yourself a favor and don't run everlasting affliction glyph.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
10850
I can't seem to agree with this.
I think aff feels so impotent in every way--dots at just ridiculous low dps + more resilience + stronger healers + more dispels...I don't get it.

I would really appreciate a high cr rbg lock's opinion on this with some guidance.

For now, I'm still playing destro main but changed my off spec from aff to demo bc of these changes. I think demo looks stronger now.

Good thread. Needs serious input.
X
Reply Quote
83 Tauren Warrior
4405
Great video. I'm interested to test out affliction once my lock gets up there in level. Atm, he's low level enough that I get burst down too quick for afflic to be viable - hoping that isn't the case as a fresh 90. Still, the changes to pvp and affliction seems promising to make the spec at least enjoyable in random bgs.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Warlock
5795
can't seem to agree with this.
I think aff feels so impotent in every way--dots at just ridiculous low dps + more resilience + stronger healers + more dispels...I don't get it.


I know what you are saying.

All I can tell you is that I started playing affliction before 5.3 because I was getting bored with demo, and a broken spec is always a challenge. The spec doesn't feel broken anymore, trust me.

I couldn't figure out why my damage seemed so much more effective in 5.3, like you have pointed out, the math didn't add up.

But thinking about it this morning, I realize that the hard numbers don't tell the story. It's not the amount of damage affliction locks put out, but how they do it.

My best guess at this point--it's a result of longer fights. You can't pull CDs and down an opponent in one pass anymore. Damage output therefore slumps in between bursts on those classes that rely on burst.

Affliction damage is not CD/resource dependent and so affliction locks are doing constant damage (albeit nerfed) through the entire fight, which makes affliction locks way more dangerous in 5.3, and possibly one of the most dangerous if played right.

Affliction can sit through an initial burst without using a defensive CD (especially if enfeeblement is up), fear, DOT, port, LOS then use exhaustion and MG a slowly moving target for over 50% of the targets health, while taking no damage is getting 1.7k health back per corruption tick on all targets. The net result is that I am outpacing the damage output of classes that previously would have burst me down in seconds.

A little breathing room has changed the game to the affliction lock's advantage. They are more than viable and I don't think there will be many rbg teams that don't include one if not two affliction locks.

-e
Reply Quote
100 Human Warlock
8720
can't seem to agree with this.
I think aff feels so impotent in every way--dots at just ridiculous low dps + more resilience + stronger healers + more dispels...I don't get it.


I know what you are saying.

All I can tell you is that I started playing affliction before 5.3 because I was getting bored with demo, and a broken spec is always a challenge. The spec doesn't feel broken anymore, trust me.

I couldn't figure out why my damage seemed so much more effective in 5.3, like you have pointed out, the math didn't add up.

But thinking about it this morning, I realize that the hard numbers don't tell the story. It's not the amount of damage affliction locks put out, but how they do it.

My best guess at this point--it's a result of longer fights. You can't pull CDs and down an opponent in one pass anymore. Damage output therefore slumps in between bursts on those classes that rely on burst.

Affliction damage is not CD/resource dependent and so affliction locks are doing constant damage (albeit nerfed) through the entire fight, which makes affliction locks way more dangerous in 5.3, and possibly one of the most dangerous if played right.

Affliction can sit through an initial burst without using a defensive CD (especially if enfeeblement is up), fear, DOT, port, LOS then use exhaustion and MG a slowly moving target for over 50% of the targets health, while taking no damage is getting 1.7k health back per corruption tick on all targets. The net result is that I am outpacing the damage output of classes that previously would have burst me down in seconds.

A little breathing room has changed the game to the affliction lock's advantage. They are more than viable and I don't think there will be many rbg teams that don't include one if not two affliction locks.

-e


Affliction has always been able to do this, what made destro sooooooooooooo much more appealing was the crazy easy aoe. Who doesn't like to spam FnB with RoF and cleave their entire team down then just tab shadow burn targets. Afflictions aoe in RBGs is still going to be lack compared to destro unless you do not have a spriest, then affliction dispel protection will be your saving grace.

Affliction is still decent small spread damage with great single target damage through haunt and MG. with the nerf to resil and resil stacking affliction locks played right should have no problem with healers. The ability to do damage through fear unlike destro and constantly chain damage through three fears a silence and a stunts game breaking.
Reply Quote
100 Gnome Warlock
7885
Aff feels a lot stronger now. Guess it's the 4 piece bonus helping bring some pain.

I'm not doing ae damage all that well, but really laying out some pain with SB + SS.

I was messing around with Aff last night, trying out different combinations of glyphs.

You definitely want to use Grim of Sac. And while it's tempting to get piles of hit points with Soul Link (was hitting well over 1M last night with Bulwark), Dark Bargain is the way to go.

Also messed around with Grim of Sac, Soul Link, Harvest Life + Drain Life glyph (which now buffs Harvest Life as well), and though I was able to get ridiculously high ticks, using Harvest Life is still a waste of time and inferior to Dark Bargain + Dark Regen.

One thing I found quite useful was the Soul Consumption glyph, it synergizes quite well with Aff. I think it might be better than Siphon Life.
Edited by Bigguss on 5/26/2013 2:31 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Warlock
13330
I'm seriously doubting your claim that using Everlasting Affliction as Affliction in PvP is a good idea. I am interested to see your reasoning for it, though. I don't have time to watch the video now, but I'll make sure I watch it tomorrow.

My reasoning is based off of how the new pvp 4-set, and gemming/reforging of full mastery, outweighs the 20% dmg reduction with everlasting affliction glyph. With the cons of the glyph evened up with that you are given 50% extra duration to the 3 dots. Now where my thinking comes in is with agony; agony will do the most damage at 10 stacks correct? So with the glyph you are getting waaaay more 10 stack ticks which will also increase the overall damage you would do with a haunt and malefic grasp going as well, also if you run with siphon life glyph you will get 50% more health ticks with corruption which is nice. Keep in mind though I do not think this is good for Arena(maybe 5s). This is mainly focused for players looking to change up their damage in random BGs and RBGs.
Reply Quote
100 Orc Warlock
15625
05/26/2013 03:53 PMPosted by Lockpower
My reasoning is based off of how the new pvp 4-set, and gemming/reforging of full mastery, outweighs the 20% dmg reduction with everlasting affliction glyph.


Or you could not run Everlasting Affliction and do 25% more damage than you would with the glyph. As for Agony, , it retains it's 10 stacks when you refresh it, so that part doesn't really mean anything.
Reply Quote
100 Human Warlock
8720
Aff feels a lot stronger now. Guess it's the 4 piece bonus helping bring some pain.

I'm not doing ae damage all that well, but really laying out some pain with SB + SS.

I was messing around with Aff last night, trying out different combinations of glyphs.

You definitely want to use Grim of Sac. And while it's tempting to get piles of hit points with Soul Link (was hitting well over 1M last night with Bulwark), Dark Bargain is the way to go.

Also messed around with Grim of Sac, Soul Link, Harvest Life + Drain Life glyph (which now buffs Harvest Life as well), and though I was able to get ridiculously high ticks, using Harvest Life is still a waste of time and inferior to Dark Bargain + Dark Regen.

One thing I found quite useful was the Soul Consumption glyph, it synergizes quite well with Aff. I think it might be better than Siphon Life.


It isn't so much the 10% buff as the resil nerf. My resto sham and frost dk was stacking straight resil gems with close to 10k resil. Now it is impossible to get 70% resil. This means your damage is hitting those healers and resil stackers for alot more. However in random bgs you might not see a whole lot of damage increase due to low geared players having an increase in resil.

If you want to really push your damage as affliction I will give you 2 pieces of advice.

1: gem straight mastery ignoring all socket bonuses and using GoSac

2: get the shadow pan trinket and the hydra trinket out of LFR (it has a !@#$ ton of hate that you can reforge to mastery and procs a retarded amount of intel) get a proc addon like need to know. When either or both proc go freaking nuts spreading dots to everything. If you can catch it when both proc at the same time hit your macro that pops DS, lifeblood(if you are a herbalist) and put freaking dots on everything. Your damage will be so high that all targets will just melt. Make sure you also have tidy plates so you can tab fel flame BEFORE YOUR DS WEARS OFF.

Happy hunting.
Reply Quote
100 Gnome Warlock
7885


It isn't so much the 10% buff as the resil nerf. My resto sham and frost dk was stacking straight resil gems with close to 10k resil. Now it is impossible to get 70% resil. This means your damage is hitting those healers and resil stackers for alot more. However in random bgs you might not see a whole lot of damage increase due to low geared players having an increase in resil.

If you want to really push your damage as affliction I will give you 2 pieces of advice.

1: gem straight mastery ignoring all socket bonuses and using GoSac

2: get the shadow pan trinket and the hydra trinket out of LFR (it has a !@#$ ton of hate that you can reforge to mastery and procs a retarded amount of intel) get a proc addon like need to know. When either or both proc go freaking nuts spreading dots to everything. If you can catch it when both proc at the same time hit your macro that pops DS, lifeblood(if you are a herbalist) and put freaking dots on everything. Your damage will be so high that all targets will just melt. Make sure you also have tidy plates so you can tab fel flame BEFORE YOUR DS WEARS OFF.

Happy hunting.


Thanks for the tip on Need to Know & Tidy Plates, I'll have to get those.

I'm already going (nearly) all out Mastery. And I've been using Breath in instanced bg (with Shado Pan trinket in world pvp). I've been using a pvp trinket for the cc relief and Mastery, and choosing Blood Horror. Might have to go back to Shado Pan, choose Unbound Will and see how that goes.
Reply Quote
100 Human Warlock
8720


It isn't so much the 10% buff as the resil nerf. My resto sham and frost dk was stacking straight resil gems with close to 10k resil. Now it is impossible to get 70% resil. This means your damage is hitting those healers and resil stackers for alot more. However in random bgs you might not see a whole lot of damage increase due to low geared players having an increase in resil.

If you want to really push your damage as affliction I will give you 2 pieces of advice.

1: gem straight mastery ignoring all socket bonuses and using GoSac

2: get the shadow pan trinket and the hydra trinket out of LFR (it has a !@#$ ton of hate that you can reforge to mastery and procs a retarded amount of intel) get a proc addon like need to know. When either or both proc go freaking nuts spreading dots to everything. If you can catch it when both proc at the same time hit your macro that pops DS, lifeblood(if you are a herbalist) and put freaking dots on everything. Your damage will be so high that all targets will just melt. Make sure you also have tidy plates so you can tab fel flame BEFORE YOUR DS WEARS OFF.

Happy hunting.


Don't forget the mastery meta, lol. I have went mastery beserk. Trying to get my hands on the LFR 100% crit trinket just to test it in pvp. I expect the proc would be stupidly long, though if it is like the shadow pan trinket and procs at the beginning of the initial contact you could put out some stupid damage.

On glyphs I use health stone, exhaustion, soul consumption for randoms and RBGs.

Tried out demo tanking and realized I suck at it so I am bringing back my affliction spec for RBGs when we face dispel comps, (priest, MW).

Thanks for the tip on Need to Know & Tidy Plates, I'll have to get those.

I'm already going (nearly) all out Mastery. And I've been using Breath in instanced bg (with Shado Pan trinket in world pvp). I've been using a pvp trinket for the cc relief and Mastery, and choosing Blood Horror. Might have to go back to Shado Pan, choose Unbound Will and see how that goes.
Reply Quote
From what I've seen, higher rated Aff locks run Everlasting Affliction because they are not prioritizing damage or refreshing dots. They concentrate on CCing the healers, and the rest of the enemy team as much as possible while laying out dots as the fight allows.

With fear, the tier 2 talents, and a suc seduce and knock back for cast interrupt, they can keep multiple healers CCed and generally just be a massive pain for the other team. On top of that they they can stack unstable along with fear which either prevents despells or ccs a healer.

The reason for everlasting is that overall it is a damage increase for dots that are not going to be constantly refreshed, haunted, or malefic grasped. In short it allows more damage while giving more time to concentrate on cc instead of dot management.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
8975
I don't see Affliction being viable with the exception of a DoT-based composition ('dot-cleave').

Ran with an Aff lock over the weekend and did twice his damage in most games. When he ran with EA glyph, his damage only got worse.

The damage isn't my reason of thinking though. The two reasons I wouldn't consider running Aff is:

1) Completely !@#$ at stopping a flag spin. It is close to impossible.
2) You can't solo defend a base well, which is what a warlock is often assigned to doing.

Those 2 reasons alone make me think Aff has a long way to becoming as viable as Destruction.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Warlock
13330
I don't see Affliction being viable with the exception of a DoT-based composition ('dot-cleave').

Ran with an Aff lock over the weekend and did twice his damage in most games. When he ran with EA glyph, his damage only got worse.

The damage isn't my reason of thinking though. The two reasons I wouldn't consider running Aff is:

1) Completely !@#$ at stopping a flag spin. It is close to impossible.
2) You can't solo defend a base well, which is what a warlock is often assigned to doing.

Those 2 reasons alone make me think Aff has a long way to becoming as viable as Destruction.

You're using an example of one warlock on one occasion and with your numbering of issues you have with aff it sounds like you want a lock to be a jack of all trades; we can't do that anymore even as destro. Regarding warlocks and their roles in RBGs I'm usually sent to the front lines and not defending bases, our use on offense is much more valuable than our defensive capabilities.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
8975

You're using an example of one warlock on one occasion and with your numbering of issues you have with aff it sounds like you want a lock to be a jack of all trades; we can't do that anymore even as destro. Regarding warlocks and their roles in RBGs I'm usually sent to the front lines and not defending bases, our use on offense is much more valuable than our defensive capabilities.


I was an Affliction fan since I started playing in vanilla. I would like to see it resurface, however the points I made are valid reasons I have (and I'm not the only one).

Here is a run-down:

What Destruction brings to an RBG:
i) 'Top of the list' Flag spin prevention with FnB.
ii) Node defense
iii) Incredible burst damage
iv) Execution spell (Shadowburn)
v) Massive AoE range with 'cast and forget' RoF (prevents a rogue's Shroud)
vi) Double Counterspells (BoH)
vii) Highest overall damage output of all three specs
viii) 2 schools of magic to cast from, so you don't have a thumb stuck up your !@# like Aff does if Shadow is locked out.
ix) Ember tapping for instant healing, which can be endless with a RoF up.
x) AoE slows with well-timed/spread Conflags

What Affliction brings to an RBG:
i) Dispel protection
ii) Quick initial dot-spread with 4 shards
iii) AoE CoX slow

You act like I don't want to run Aff, which I have on a few occasions. My points above are the reasons as to why I (and others I've spoken to) choose not to. The main ones, as previously listed, being that it fails at preventing a flag spin and Aff not being strong at defending a node. As mentioned, this not considering Dot-cleave comps, which you would most likely be asked to run Aff.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Warlock
13330
From what I've seen, higher rated Aff locks run Everlasting Affliction because they are not prioritizing damage or refreshing dots. They concentrate on CCing the healers, and the rest of the enemy team as much as possible while laying out dots as the fight allows.

With fear, the tier 2 talents, and a suc seduce and knock back for cast interrupt, they can keep multiple healers CCed and generally just be a massive pain for the other team. On top of that they they can stack unstable along with fear which either prevents despells or ccs a healer.

The reason for everlasting is that overall it is a damage increase for dots that are not going to be constantly refreshed, haunted, or malefic grasped. In short it allows more damage while giving more time to concentrate on cc instead of dot management.

Pretty much nailed it on the head
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]