pvp seal idea

90 Human Paladin
5745
So I've been thinking a good way to make rets less of a target in arenas and rbgs is making seal of justice also give a 10% dmg reduction just like warriors who can sit in defensive for loss of dps or dks that can sit in blood presence or even ferals that can go bear most melee have a stance they can sit in to survive better...sorry for the bad punctuation I'm on my phone posting this lol also I know hand of purity is sort of like our stance but that takes alot of management and attention to maintain that up 100% of the time
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100 Human Paladin
11915
It would need to also cut ret's damage by a very significant amount or it would be extremely overpowered.
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100 Tauren Druid
6630
I like your idea about inquisition functioning different based on active seals. Judgement used to behave this way and that was a fun mechanic
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90 Human Paladin
8595
I'll say it once, I'll say it a million times. Make seal of justice prevent players from using instant teleportation (Blink, Disengage, Monk rolls, demonic gateway etc) abilities. It would both give us a niche and make us actually a counter-class to others.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
8760
What makes a Paladin different from other plate classes is the Healing. both Warriors and DKs have damage reduction stances, but none of them have the healing of a Ret Pally. That is what you are supposed to do, when you get damaged you heal out of the damage since you can actually heal while all others can do is reduce it. Eventually a warrior or a DK will die as they dont have unlimited healing, but a ret pally will keep on healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing
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90 Human Paladin
7380
What makes a Paladin different from other plate classes is the Healing. both Warriors and DKs have damage reduction stances, but none of them have the healing of a Ret Pally. That is what you are supposed to do, when you get damaged you heal out of the damage since you can actually heal while all others can do is reduce it. Eventually a warrior or a DK will die as they dont have unlimited healing, but a ret pally will keep on healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing and healing


Not completely true.. The problem with ret is we are a viable get trained target for a reason and when we are getting trained, we can't get fol's off on ourselves. We can wog ourselves, which completely negates our damage and usually hits for very little. 3 fol's and them oom and you should never really get more than two off if you're lucky, with a SH proc. Passive damage reduction abilities are better overall when you're getting trained... ie Defensive Stance, or lock self heal / damage mitigation abilities that don't affect their damage output. If ret could heal and heal and heal to infinity, we wouldn't be one of the most viable train targets in pvp. Yeah we can sit in Seal of Insight, but that doesn't do anything when you're stunned and the self heal is quite minimal given the amount of damage in the game. Probably around ~10k per tick every ~2 to 2.5 seconds with perfect up time. It would be nice if there was a ret glyph or passive in seal if insight for a 5 - 10% damage reduction, since we already lose so much dps by changing to that seal.

I like the idea of inquisition being uniquely effected by the seal that you are in. For Seal of Justice, maybe the first spell/attack (non auto) you do upon refresh of Inquisition hits for an additional 15% or something. That would help to bridge the gap between the loss of dps you suffer from using Justice as opposed to Truth in pvp and would make double jeopardy more valuable with a focus judgement target at the start of your burst.

Since paladins are very squishy against casters, it would be nice to see some kind of damage mitigation / reflection worked in somewhere. Seal of Justice - Upon refreshing of Inquisition the effectiveness of the next spell cast upon the paladin is reduced by x% or chance for that spell to hit is reduced by x%. This would mean that damaging spells would hit less hard; or fears / stuns would have their duration reduced by that x% or would have less of a chance to hit in general. We need a fear reduction ability, so something like this might be an answer. Thoughts?

I'm not sure about SOT and SOR ideas. I think truth is probably good as is for pve and it's use in pvp both, but it would be nice to see something with seal of Righteousness that might make is viable for rbgs. Maybe, add something like friendly players in the AOE vicinity of SOR are unable to be affected by blowbacks? Would make us valuable for flag spinning at LM in Arathi Basin and at the middle flag at the Eye of the Storm map, as you would have AOE damage as well as blowback protection for teammates. This blowback immunity could last for ~3 seconds after the seal effect is activated by an attack, so you would have to use your trink and bubble wisely to keep the other team from getting a stun on you and then achieving a blowback on your team after the immunity affect was over.

To the Devs... to properly cap on conquest and to build a decent cap rating, RBG's are a necessity. Ret's cannot get in RBG's unless you know a group of people that are willing to take you, or you just get fed up of looking and run with the 'que for rbg loss to cap' teams. I think it's about time you guys did something to help us get in to rbgs and working something additional into our seals might be a way to achieve this. I know you guys commented before on how you were aware that we needed something unique to make is desired in rbgs, but with each patch update we aren't seeing much to make this happen. It would be nice to get some feedback on this. If you aren't going to look into this for the classes that aren't desired in rbgs, you should really look at changing the conquest cap system so that it's more fair to classes that nobody wants in rbgs.
Edited by Devilas on 6/3/2013 3:16 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
7380
As for knockback immunity?, I believe Hand of Freedom should fill that role.


Hand of Freedom couldn't fit that role in a way that would give ret a valuable team ability in rbgs. It's a single target ability... Seal of Righteousness is the only seal with an AOE effect, so it would make sense to apply a team support ability to this seal. It would fit a good role for flag spinning with an immunity to knockbacks for teammates in the area of affect. A unique team support ability is the only thing that will bring rets into rbgs...
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90 Human Paladin
7380
But how do you tie that into Inquisition?, 3seconds seem fair enough, but whats the CD? and what about refreshing Inquisition early or at one or two holy power?. And if it just an ability of the seal its self, again what would the ICD be and how would we track it?. Seem to me that it would just overly complicate the ability.


Yeah I guess I kind of forgot to mention inquisition working into this.. lol. I was initially thinking that it would be good for this immunity ability to refresh for x amount of seconds upon refreshing inquisition and last for ~3 seconds each time the seal is activated during this time. I would say that since Inquisition can no longer be refreshed to a lower duration, if you did it this way, you would have to keep refreshing inquisition on 1hp to maximize the effect. This would hurt our dps quite a bit and would just plain suck.

Being that the range of Seal of Righteousness AOE range is only 8 yards, or a diameter around the ret of 16 yards, I'd say that something like this could just remain active while inquisition is up and you are using SOR.

Righteous Ground - While Inquisition is active during use of Seal of Righteousness, all friendly targets within 8 yards of the paladin are granted Righteous Ground, providing blowback immunity for ~3 seconds upon activation of the seal.

Fears, Stuns, Disarms would counter our ability to keep this up in general with the immunity only lasting ~3 seconds after the seal is activated, so I think it would have to remain active during inquisition for it to be of any value. You would have to manage your trinks (DS is essentially a trink to), keep better positioning in relation to your teammates, healers would have to be on the ball to keep fears dispelled off of you and it would chance the dynamic of sac to something you could also use to reduce fear/blind durations on yourself, for the purpose of simply trying to keep the blowback immunity buff up. Teammates would have to stay aware of the paladin's positioning and move in range to get the buff. Once they have it they would keep it for the full 3 seconds, but to have it reapplied, they would have to move back within range. Tying this to a seal would make situational seal dancing more valuable and interesting while maintaining Inquisition imo... Rets would be flag spinning beasts with something like this and that kind of team ability is exactly what we need.

On that note tho, perhaps this could be added into Hand of Freedom. So when using Hand of Freedom all friendly players within X amount of yards around the target gain 3seconds of knockback immunity. While the target receives knockback immunity for the full duration of Hand of Freedom. This sound like something that should be tied into the Hand of Purity talent as a bonus, so as to not make Clemency any stronger a choice. Which just made me think of away to improve T60 talents but that a thread for some other time.


If something like this is tied to Freedom, you will be forced to use both of your freedoms back to back as soon as you got on a flag or were fighting in an area near a cliff... and then after they are on cd, your teammates will get gripped/beamed in a bad spot and blown off and the team would say "thanks for coming out ret, but we're grabbing a lock or hunter. This new ability isn't good enough to bring a ret since the cd is to long". Please keep in mind that ret is one of the most unwanted rbg specs, as with most melee classes, so if we are going to be given an ability that will make people want us in rbgs, it will need to be unique and structured in a way that will give you a powerful team ability. Tying this to freedom is not powerful enough imo. Tying this to Hand of Purity, takes away our ability to use Clemency in rbgs, which is our most powerful pvp talent in that tier. Why gimp us away from Clemency when this ability is only to make us accepted in rbgs? In case you haven't' noticed, we suck in rbgs... Makes no sense to me...

T60 talents can be improved in other ways.. not this way. Purity is a 6 sec duration on a 30 sec cd.. Won't work to be of enough value as a team immunity to something like blowbacks.
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