Holy raid healer queries

90 Blood Elf Paladin
11500
Not sure if this is better suited to the Healer forums, but since getting back into WoW I've been having trouble with answering a few questions.

Anyway, I'll list my questions below, some of them are quite subjective I think and depend on raid composition - just assume I mostly LFR so far as I haven't found a raid team:

BoL: Beacon of Light
CS: Crusader Strike
EF: Eternal Flame
FoL: Flash of Light
GCD: Global Cool Down
HP: Holy Power
LoD: Light of Dawn

1) Is it better to blanket the entire raid with 1HP EF or should I be putting 3HP EF's on the off-tank, then tank, then across the raid as damage dictates?

2) EF - do people refresh it before it drops off or wait for the very last tick?

3) EF - last question on EF I swear. So, with beacon, I should always EF myself after I EF the two tanks, because it's increased by 100%, so the tank would get 100% of the heal?

4) CS for HP - recommendations for or cautions against? I didn't actually notice any increase or decrease in my overall healing when I started doing it.

5) Beacon swapping - by the sounds of it there are some healers that don't stick beacon on MT and ignore it forever. Call me stuck in my ways, but given the GCD is there really a point in swapping beacon rather than simply using FoL? (I assume those healers have glyphed differently to me?)

6) Spirit > Crit >=Mastery > Haste? My gear is as confused as I am, I think I've reforged crit but all my enchants are mastery. Haven't noticed any healing changes at all with my new stat change in LFR, still between 40K to 60K on fights. Yes, I have work to do on my gear, but without a stat priority I haven't bothered doing anything.

7) LoD - might be a silly question, but does this heal even if targets are at full health? (Mainly asking for BoL heal)

8) LoD again - does it prioritize lowest health or closest members? Sometimes I hit it and nobody seems to gain any health. It says it should hit most injured first, might be bugged?

9) Holy Prism - is this our best healing talent in the tier? I assume that this is probably the talent we swap out most frequently depending on the fight.

10) How to combat raid spread. I'll admit it, I'm prone to get a little excited with my Holy Radiance, but when the raid has split into different parts with everyone everywhere (the Horridon fight in LFR for example, ranged all sit in their little spot, some melee are chasing adds, other melee and tanks are on boss), what should I be doing? Pop Divine Favour and spam Holy Light for glory? LoD appears to have no range so maybe a good time for HS&CS for HP generation?

11) Divine Light for HP generation - this seem a rather expensive method of doing it, I've been trying it a little more so as to get more EF's on the raid, but what with this and CS I have finally encountered mana issues. Mostly because I'm working too hard on maintaining all my EF's and generating HP to use my mana cd's. Is this a gear thing that I should be looking at having a minimum amount of X Spirit before I start?

12) Related to the above mana issues, Glyph of Divine Plea. My question about not using it is, say I have 3 EF's up, each ticking for 10K. When I hit Divine Plea unglyphed, do they drop to 5K? Right now I just wait until the raid is in a low-damage period and then pop Divine Favor and then use Divine Plea or if I already used Divine Favor I just cop the 4.37 second cast time.

Hopefully someone can provide some insight into a few of those queries and help me get my main spec back under control.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13875
1) Is it better to blanket the entire raid with 1HP EF or should I be putting 3HP EF's on the off-tank, then tank, then across the raid as damage dictates?

1a) EF blanketing has never really been super useful in real raiding situations. It can increase EHP for your raid if you have super predictable aoe damage incoming and a long time beforehand for that 1hp EF to stack up a shield but it's pretty much insignificant. 3HP EF on tank, off-tank, and yourself is generally the way to go saving the rest of your HoPo for either 3HP EFs on low targets or LoD depending on the fight.

2) EF - do people refresh it before it drops off or wait for the very last tick?

2a) You wait til it falls off, but generally tanks will be refreshed before the buff falls off anyway. If someone truly needs a heal your priority is HS>Infusion Divine Light w/ Beacon Swap>3HoPoEF>LoH>Flash of Light with Beacon Swap. Therefore, most of your raid will naturally get EF spread among them. If multiple targets need heals you use LoD, Infusion Radiances, and holy shock with daybreak.

3) EF - last question on EF I swear. So, with beacon, I should always EF myself after I EF the two tanks, because it's increased by 100%, so the tank would get 100% of the heal?

3a)EF yourself is a last priority thing. If you are at 5hopo with nothing really to heal or if you're the one taking lots of damage then it's great. Tank gets 50% of the heal, but it's just doubled on you. It's not really worth putting up just because it gives you double the hot.

4) CS for HP - recommendations for or cautions against? I didn't actually notice any increase or decrease in my overall healing when I started doing it.

4a) Don't. Mana cost is far too high for the 0 healing it gives. With Holy Avenger it can be okay sometimes. Important thing is to know crusader strike can be used in some instances where your spells are blocked - like in silence - which in pvp and some pve scenarios can be useful

5) Beacon swapping - by the sounds of it there are some healers that don't stick beacon on MT and ignore it forever. Call me stuck in my ways, but given the GCD is there really a point in swapping beacon rather than simply using FoL? (I assume those healers have glyphed differently to me?)

5a) Beacon of Light glyph is 100% required in my book, as you can use it with infusions for quick Divine Lights that will give you a HoPo with tower of radiance on any target in your raid. Beacon one target that needs heals off the gcd and EF another target, thus providing 50% more healing than you wouldve otherwise got. Also transfers the beacon heals granted by EF hot ticks to targets who may be low that you're using an infusion divine light or flash of light on - providing a bit of off the gcd healing to your target, sometimes does save lives. Just sticking on MT will provide mostly overheals without really ever being enough to save his life.

6) Spirit > Crit >=Mastery > Haste? My gear is as confused as I am, I think I've reforged crit but all my enchants are mastery. Haven't noticed any healing changes at all with my new stat change in LFR, still between 40K to 60K on fights. Yes, I have work to do on my gear, but without a stat priority I haven't bothered doing anything.

6a) Spirit to comfort>Int>Mastery>crit>haste. How much spirit you need largely depends on raid composition (mana tide, hymn), how good you are with Seal of Insight mana returns, how often and efficiently you use Divine Plea and Arcane Torrent (if be), whether or not you can get potion of focus off fully (or are using master mana potions), whether or not you abuse Glyph of Divinity and perhaps unbreakable spirit during a fight, how good your trinkets are for mana returns (and if you're using them properly if they are on-use) and how much raid damage your raid takes, whether or not you're able to keep them up with efficient spells or inefficient spells or not at all. Mastery is zero RNG and also the reason people bring paladins to raids. Shamans bring higher HP, disc priest shields, paladins shields, and druids are really just strong hots. Crit is rng. even if it did bring increased total healing it isn't always there when you need it.

7) LoD - might be a silly question, but does this heal even if targets are at full health? (Mainly asking for BoL heal)

7a) It does.

8) LoD again - does it prioritize lowest health or closest members? Sometimes I hit it and nobody seems to gain any health. It says it should hit most injured first, might be bugged?

8a)Lowest members but it's a cone in front of you. Cone seems to be expanded slightly if you spin or turn in some direction as you cast, but most injured % wise should be correct.

9) Holy Prism - is this our best healing talent in the tier? I assume that this is probably the talent we swap out most frequently depending on the fight.

9a) Holy Prism is almost always what you'll want to use, switching for Lights Hammer in some cases. Holy Prism hits the 5 most injured targets within 15 yards (30 yards in diameter) around your target. Some boss' hitboxes are so large this actually covers the entire fighting arena. This means it's an emergency 100k or so heal to the half of your raid most likely to die instantly every 20 seconds. It far surpasses any other emergency heal we have outside of loh, which can be used in conjunction to actually cover 6 targets instantly.

10) How to combat raid spread. I'll admit it, I'm prone to get a little excited with my Holy Radiance, but when the raid has split into different parts with everyone everywhere (the Horridon fight in LFR for example, ranged all sit in their little spot, some melee are chasing adds, other melee and tanks are on boss), what should I be doing? Pop Divine Favour and spam Holy Light for glory? LoD appears to have no range so maybe a good time for HS&CS for HP generation?

10a) Holy Prism on boss with the huge hitbox, melee boss for SoI mana returns, keep EF on tanks and LoD dps on adds. LoD is 30 yard range. If you aren't hitting the offtank+melee pile with it you need to move closer to them.

11) Divine Light for HP generation - this seem a rather expensive method of doing it, I've been trying it a little more so as to get more EF's on the raid, but what with this and CS I have finally encountered mana issues. Mostly because I'm working too hard on maintaining all my EF's and generating HP to use my mana cd's. Is this a gear thing that I should be looking at having a minimum amount of X Spirit before I start?

11a) Divine Light is the same cost as flash or holy radiance. Shock is on a cd. Divine Light heals for more than flash single target and is faster with infusions. It should be used for single target heals to generate hopo when hs is off cd. Divine Light should be used on your beacon target (switch your beacons). If the tank is missing enough hp then you should be using it on him with a 3HoPo EF planned on a 2nd target that needs heals in the raid to get beacon healing from EF on the tank as well with that HoPo you generated. It's a more efficient way to heal. CS costs 9k and gives us 1 hopo, which is basically an 28k heal +hots adding up to another 30k at the cost of 2 globals. It's beyond inefficient. Using Holy Light instead while switching your beacon to a target that needs heals as well is cheaper and gives more healing.

12) Related to the above mana issues, Glyph of Divine Plea. My question about not using it is, say I have 3 EF's up, each ticking for 10K. When I hit Divine Plea unglyphed, do they drop to 5K? Right now I just wait until the raid is in a low-damage period and then pop Divine Favor and then use Divine Plea or if I already used Divine Favor I just cop the 4.37 second cast time.

Using divine favor for divine plea is a super waste. there are low raid damage periods on all fights where you can squeeze in divine pleas. Guardian of the Ancient Kings is an excellent cd to use for it because it basically makes all your single targets spells heal for normal instead of the likely overhealing they'd do if you use it without the healing reduc. Depends on the fight though. Your current EF hots should not be reduced in healing from using divine plea.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6925
Damn, I typed up half of this on my break at work but by the time I got home to test it someone had responded D:

Some of the following are facts, some are opinions and should be treated as such.

1) Sometimes. The mastery shield isn't huge from 1hp EFs, but it can be a way to increase the effective health of the raid (in certain situations). Part of our strength comes from the ability to stockpile HP and chuck out 2 huge heals in 3 GCDs (3, if the HS in the middle crits)

2) I generally let it drop off, because half the benefit of it is the shield, which sustains for 15 seconds afterwards. Kind of a moot point, I'll refresh it if I'm capped on HoPo

3) I kind of agree with iltareh on this one. I like to keep a 1hp EF on myself, because I like the safety net the increased effective health brings me. However, its a very low priority.

4) CS for holy power is not a very good idea. iltareh did the maths, and it comes out pretty poorly outside of holy avenger. I generally only use it once per fight - to start with and start meleeing the boss :P. If you're going to do this, make sure you're behind the boss so you only have a 15% chance to fail, rather than 22.5%. I've always thought an awesome 2set bonus would be to make CS free

5) Totally agree with iltareh. Beacon is the one glyph I pretty much never change. The ability to move it around for whoever needs heals (whether its onto them for ToR HP, trickle healing from 4+ EFs on the raid/t90 talents, or so I can holy light someone else) off the GCD is invaluable. My BoL macro, hotkeyed to the ` key, sets my focus to my current mouseover/target, beacons them and if ctrl is pressed also then begins a cast of DL.
That said, it often spends a lot of time just sitting on the tank. Tanks can always use heals. Just remember to swap it when the tanks swap.

6) What iltareh said. Mastery gets better the more crit you have, and crit gets better the more mastery you have, so a balance is required (although, generally skewed towards mastery). Abuse seal of insight if you can. Free mana is free! Plenty of instant cast spells mean we can often take time between casts to melee (although some fight mechanics prevent this)

7) Yes, it heals targets that are full health. This means it applies mastery shields to them, and also transfers 15% of the overhealing done in beacon (over)heals.

8) After testing, it DOES NOT heal a cone in front of you. I was unable to confirm how it prioritizes targets, but if it isn't targeting the most injured members within 30 yards then it's not working as intended. If you were using it during a high-damage period it's entirely possible that its piddly weak heal was used in the time it took your monitor to refresh.

9) Best... ish. For the slight majority of fights, it's the superior talent, with Lights hammer second and Execution only useful for Tsulong. Obviously, stack fights suit Lights hammer (Megaera) and movement fights suit Prism (Horridon). It's also worth remembering that holy prism and lights hammer transfer 15% of their heals to the Beacon target, while ES transfers 50%, and also that Lights Hammer does significantly reduced healing on >5 targets.
Using it on CD works out (for me) to do 1m (roughly) healing per minute, while one use of LH can grant roughly 700k.

10) Pretty much as iltareh said, holy prism, holy light, shock on cooldown, EF on anyone who gets hit. On fights with raid hits and minimal damage between (e.g., tortos stomps is the one I'm thinking of) EF is sometimes better than LoD because if a player gets EF'd just after one, they will still have a significant mastery shield (extra effective health) when the next one comes.

11) Personally, I tend not to cast DL unless I can be sure it won't be overheal, and almost (pretty much entirely) always on a beacon target. Given that the target I have beaconed is usually beaconed because they're taking heavy damage, the 80k (EF + mastery per HP) extra from ToR outweighs the 40k beacon transfer from casting it on a non-beaconed target. And THIS is why the glyph is so great!

12) Tested : The EF hot is snapshooted using the healing reduction (or otherwise). This means if you cast it before you use DP, it will not be reduced, HOWEVER, it also means that if you cast it while in DP, it will be reduced by 50% for its entire duration, even after DP finishes. I generally don't use the glyph, because potions of focus = awesome (why waste 10 seconds to get 45k mana when you can waste 10 seconds to get 81k mana?) and if you've used your potion already, you can get extra mana by meleeing the boss during that time.
Also, using ANY CD with DP is kind of a bad idea - if you don't need the 100% extra healing from GoAK, why would you use it? (oh alright, the tiny AoE heals and haste). You can make a macro to have the same key cast and cancel (unglyphed) divine plea if you really need to start healing again. As iltareh said, every single fight (I can't think of any exceptions in t14 or 15) has some low healing (or lesser healing) points where you can use it. Worst case scenario, use it when a co-healer is using a major cooldown which is excessive for the situation (and gives you some breathing room), or in conjunction with sac on the tanks. And it's possible to start a cast while DP is active and have it finish after DP expires, and it will not have the healing reduction.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11500
Thanks a ton to Iltareh and Nemovc, I feel my queries have been completely and comprehensively answered.

Taking the suggestions on board, I swapped my glyphs up, fixed my gear back a bit towards mastery (yes, removing RNG is smart, I don't want to be the guy that nova's and flunks) and started swapping beacon around and using LoD more often than simply EF on one target. It certainly makes healing a lot more full on (had a little bit of a WotLK feel to it again with the non-stop casting). After the glyph changes I can actually use Divine Favour as a cd now, which I found was amazing when both tanks dropped under 20% for the heal frenzy that ensued.

I stopped Crusader Striking on cd, and still ran low on mana so I can see why it's not wise to spam it. I only ran out of mana once (two healers died early), but even then it was only for a few seconds and then my cd's were up and Insight was regenerating a ton of mana.

Thanks for sharing the results of your testing with EF/DP, Nemovc, knowing it's a snapshot creates interesting situations (like trying to fire it off as Avenging Wrath/trinket/engineering ends).

Over 11 fights in LFR last night my average healing increased by 10K using what I learned from your responses.

Just a note on LoD, it still doesn't appear to target very well, but I'll probably notice this better once I get into a 10-man team.

Once again, thanks for the detailed responses.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6925
If you're interested in seeing how it targets, make sure that your mastery shield is being displayed on your raid frames. Though, this is kind of unreliable in the situations where you want to track it (25k heal with 34% mastery equals an 8.5k shield, which is virtually nothing). I'm glad to hear your healing went up!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Coming from 25 man

1. It's impossible to blanket the entire raid. Get as many 1 HoPo's off as you can, and when you get DP's hit MT, OT, and you.

2. Again, from a 25 man perspective, use it on people that have damage first, then follow the MT, OT, You > Healers motto

3. Yes.

4. When you can be in melee range, CS is a valuable tool for HoPo generation. However I tend to use it later in the fight, rather than early on. Basically I need it more later, so I use it more later.

5. I use it on who needs it most. We run 5 healers (2 pallies). For the most part, we each cover a tank, however, one of our tanks is a DK, and he doesn't really "need" it. That gives me the ability to swap mine to "problem children." People who seem to be taking more than their fair share of damage over the course of the fight. I use a lot of HL, so they get a BOGO heal every time I cover someone else.

6. Mastery = Crit > Haste, Spirit to comfort. Mathematically Crit & Mastery have almost identical returns. Crit gives more real healing, but results in more wasted overheals depending on playstyle. So based on playstyle, adjust your crit up or down based on your overheal %. If you are running on fumes, adjust your spirit up.

7. Yes will heal targets at full health, granting shields, and transfer Beacon.

8. The logic is goofy.

9. I prefer light's hammer. Prism is technically better, but LH is a nice blanket Dual Purpose AoE.

10. HL is your best friend. Be mobile. Stick with range, and watch the offtank. If you have to HR aim for you or the offtank. The melee should be grouped around him, and you'll be positioned "near" them. The other healers are on their own, or will cover the slack.

11. DL as HoPo generation is bad, especially if you are just trying to do it for EF blanketing. Your mana consumption will just skyrocket. You're better off using HR, which is the same effective cost, which gives a blanket absorb, generates a HoPo, and a Daybreak, following with a HS (now a splash), and then a EF or a LoD. Same mana cost, 3-5x the effective shields & healing (because you hit 5 people + various beacon transfers)

12. Once cast, they are fine. They don't change. The glyph is worth its weight in gold, but don't burn a cooldown in conjunction ever.
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90 Human Paladin
6115
06/02/2013 11:30 PMPosted by Iltareh
8a)Lowest members but it's a cone in front of you. Cone seems to be expanded slightly if you spin or turn in some direction as you cast, but most injured % wise should be correct.


Base on the tooltip of LoD it isn't a cone anymore.

"Consumes up to 3 HP to emanate a wave of healing energy, healing up to 6 of the most injured targets in your party or raid within 30 yards for 7,563 per charge of HP."

So either it lies, or very misleading considering I can cast this in a corner not facing any raid members and it still heals.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
06/05/2013 10:46 PMPosted by Syronite
8a)Lowest members but it's a cone in front of you. Cone seems to be expanded slightly if you spin or turn in some direction as you cast, but most injured % wise should be correct.


Base on the tooltip of LoD it isn't a cone anymore.

"Consumes up to 3 HP to emanate a wave of healing energy, healing up to 6 of the most injured targets in your party or raid within 30 yards for 7,563 per charge of HP."

So either it lies, or very misleading considering I can cast this in a corner not facing any raid members and it still heals.


I think its a PBAE now, vice a directional cone.
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