Healer AOE Discussion Thread(Stacked, Spread)

90 Blood Elf Paladin
11435
Been honestly wanting to do this for a while. Especially since 5.3 hit and wanted to give observations, thoughts and opinions on each healers aoe kit. Also wanted to ask what people thought of their own aoe abilities and to give feedback on what's good, what's not, what could be changed and so forth.

Below this is just strictly my opinion and observations I made myself while healing from my paladin to my resto druid(at varying gear levels) regarding AOE healing. From heroic TOT, to 5 man dungeons and everything in between. Please, please all I'm asking is for thoughts, feedback and good discussion. This is a very long post. There is no TLDR. Going to do a Shaman and Paladin post. Will add the other healers later on. Please share what your opinions for all healers are like aoe healing.

Most of these views stem from 10 man raiding in general normal and heroic. 25 man perspectives are mostly from normal and LFR.

STACKED

Notes
HR-Holy Radiance
LOD-Light of Dawn
Holy Shock referred to Daybreak as well
HA-Holy Avenger
DP-Divine Purpose

PALADIN-Main AOE Tools are Holy Radiance and Light of Dawn. Very popular rotation and in my opinion most stable has been. HR-HS-HR-LOD-HS. With right timing so you didn't miss any GCD's. It didn't burn so much mana and it did good healing stacked up. With 5.3 Changes Daybreak now stacks. Now one can do the old more mana intensive but more healing intensive rotation.

HR-HR-HS-LOD. Now that Daybreak stacks its more powerful healing without wasted stacks. It also is indirectly buffed by paladins other cooldowns. Yet with this change timing becomes also more important You can miss hitting a Holy Shock by a few seconds, or still casting HR as HS comes off cd. It doesn't gut your aoe healing potential but those mismanagements can add up over time because to do more you are going to have to wait longer. Now any Paladin could add

-Avenging Wrath or Divine Favor or Guardian to the standard AOE package which bumps up the healing. Yet the main two talents I want to share here is Holy Avenger AND Divine Purpose for aoe stacked situations.

-Holy Avenger. This plus the T152P drastically makes Daybreak/Holy Shock stronger. It also powers up Holy Radiance, TOR and other holy power building abilities. Lasts 18 seconds. It also has the benefit of empowering LOD indirectly because you can pump out more LOD's during its rotation.

NOW with Holy Avenger up the AOE Rotation can get more complicated. A perfect scenario case is if you can manage to do fully charged Daybreak's WITH LOD's in between WITH casting back to back Holy Radiance. All without missing a GCD. This is the rotation IF Holy Shock is in the 4 or more second cd AND you have no holy power. And this is the first line of discussion. How do you guys handle the rotation? Do you prefer sacrificing a potential second here or ther eon a mistake or do you go with stacking up to 5 holy power as in..

HR-HR-LOD-Daybreak-LOD-HR-LOD-HR-Daybreak. This is typically one if you do not mind going to 5 holy power. As you can see it can be cluttered. Does anyone do...

HR-LOD-HR-Daybreak-LOD-HR-LOD-HR-Daybreak? Even if one dumps holy power early on it still caps relatively quickly. Now this is strictly AOE. Plenty of times I personally chose to dump an EF on a tank or perhaps someone who is standing in bad and taking way more damage so could use a bigger heal.

PROS:This is the most powerful AOE rotation stacked that paladins can have is with Holy Avenger. Adding Divine Favor or Avenging Wrath to such one makes it hit very hard. I gotten HR crits for over 100k before and LOD's well up there. It's mana intensive but not nearly as much as without using HA. Also the faster your casts are the more powerful this becomes and the easier it becomes to hit the rotation without missing even a single GCD. It ironically also helps that Holy Shock is CD capped at 6 seconds.

Also one if the biggest things about it too...you don't need a lot of mana to have use for it too. You can use HA with sub 30k mana and while you cripple its potential by a very large amount it NEVER becomes useless. And if you pop it the wrong time you can EF blanket the raid in spread situations.

CONS:The slower your spells the easier it is to start falling behind in hitting HR, LOD, Daybreak and so forth. I'm not sure how people feel or if it even matters in falling behind but with Holy Avenger you can quickly start missing hitting buttons on time for various reasons. It also costs mana. If you want to use fully you need a good chunk of mana. No doubt about it. It's also a 2 min cd. Timing it right is important and delays chip away at the 18 seconds u have too use.

STYLE:I honestly think this caters a little more to the paladins who like having another cd and who like knowing when they can use it. 2 min cd. When its up it's up. When its on cd it's on cd. Simple.

DIVINE PURPOSE-Next Page
Edited by Marathel on 6/4/2013 4:41 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11435
Continuation of Divine Purpose-Your AOE rotation wouldn't necessarily change but begs greater scrutiny to when you hit LOD or EF. How would you guys handle these procs? I seen many do many things and myself I tend to swing in using it as soon as it procs but one should never waste it right?

Say HR-HR-HS-LOD-DP Proc. Do some of you guys use it immediately? Do you wait to continue the rotation with HR-HR to use it again? Do you only use one HR-Daybreak then use the proc? What has fit your guys playstyle the best? I think it's an interesting question because you have 8 seconds to decide what to do. What heals for more in your guys opinion. AOE rotation puts a great scrutiny when DP procs after your LOD or EF uses. How do you guys handle it?

PROS:-If you're mana tight back to back procs can be incredible. I gotten 8 DP procs in a row several times. On a good day I see 2-4. You don't waste mana and the proc never goes to waste. You can EF blanket someone, you can hit a free LOD to shield a group of players and if you get back to back procs you get free aoe healing...Tada! This talent feels like a bonus.

CONS: Back to back procs. Is it best to abandon HR and Daybreak completely? What do you do try and not miss the GCD?'s. Back to back procs is free healing but you literally got a ton of buttons to press now. If you're not tight on mana what do you do with the procs? If so much damage is going out isn't it better to do your standard rotation? It's also RNG factor. You can get dozens of procs every fight. Or you can get 5. And it requires mana to even get it up in the first place.

Style:
I think this talent appeals to some who likes to having surprises or when fights don't require very hard aoe healing they can get a bonus for doing what they're doing. It's like feeding a little of your wild side.

SPREAD

Paladin spread healing has been for the longest time single target bombing and fully utilizing the hell out of beacon. This is very more diverse than stacked healing but personally I tend to use Divine Favor, Avenging Wrath, Guardian, Divine Light, Holy Light in such phases. In combos with each other depending on the encounter. This is of course not including LOD but personally I found a variable of styles to work.

1)Holy Avenger. In accordance with DL(or with legendary meta even FOL) you gain charges of holy power and you start EF blanketing like mad before a spread out phase or during it. Large initial heal, IH shield, HOT PLUS beacon transfer running the whole.

2)Divine Purpose. I personally love this talent for spread out healing because the procs is free EF blanketing or LOD's to use. It's as simple as that. With DL's, HL's and in accordance with paladin's numerous cd's its very strong but again it relies on RNG. And at times you may get absolutely nothing from it.

3)When Paladins do not have any of their cd's to use in accordance to spread out situations they can use Holy Light, Divine Light and the faster they more healing you do. Where do you guys find the balance in this? What does one think on it?

PROS: We have a ton of choices, a ton of ways to approach spread out healing. There are options wherever you look and plenty to do. They pretty much costs mana but how mana you can control well enough. And it's healing that only gets stronger with gear. The curve in my opinion is higher than most if not all healers in the power.

CONS-We do not have Tranq, DH, Revival, we do not have AOE mechanics like Renewing Mist, HOT blanketing as fast as other healers do and we spend mana for our healing. A lot of it in many cases. Which can be staved off by during several things but paladins do not have oh #@$#@ hits DH or something like that(not picking on priests). We have Aura Mastery but that too just falls in line with our toolkit. To heal using mana. Which is a great system overall and very strong.

PALADIN AOE SCORE OPINION:A
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11435
Restoration Shamans

I personally like shamans as my second favorite healers for a variety of reasons. Big one being Ascendance. I just love that cd. This is what I personally know of resto shaman AOE healing. Feel free to correct, add or input about it.

Stacked

Drop Healing Rain just a fraction before the damage starts rolling out, drop Healing Stream Totem(this is the 30 sec cd one. I hope i didn't get it confused) and spam Chain Heal if not popping any cd's or they are on cd. Basic of basic rotations. Keeping Healing Rain up always, use totems you feel as necessary and spam Chain Heal.

The resto shamans I know add cooldowns in two ways. Feel free to add to this.

1)Ascendance with SLT alongside basic standard healing rotation. I seen some add the level 60 talents into the fray like Elemental Mastery. Is this good for heroic levels?

2)Healing Tide Totem powered up by Elemental Mastery and using the cd to spam CH fast.

In between such rotations I seen Prime Elementals used to boost healing.

RESTO AOE HEALING SCORE STACKED:A in 10 mans. C in 25 mans due to the recent DH, Revival, VE and Tranq changes. If one does LFR its wow the difference. The whole gameplay changes. I honestly found it very hard to compete with holy priests for example in raw aoe healing even burning cd's. Very strong 3 min cd changes but it has hurt resto a lot.

I do not have as much experience in 25 man as 10 but from what I see about it..it's not pretty in 25 man. But moving on.

Spread This is where I feel Resto Shamans fall short. Hard. Paladins have an array of cd's to fall back upon and numerous options to do. I personally do this. Use Riptide on cd, GHW-GHW OR GHW-HW depending on the situation or just HW if mana is low. Use HST on cd and CH here and there if I can see it. SLT has tiny cd, HTT is useful but it's a 3 min cd. SLT has a tiny range and can be very limited in how you wanted. It's still very useful but again its very limited at the same time.

PROS: Honestly the best thing I can say about it is that you have fast spells to cast and that's not saying a lot.

CONS:Numerous in my opinion. CH Glyph is really bad, CH is long cast time and it's range is limited. All of your helpful totems have cd's, have short ranges or long cd's. All your other abilities to heal are better used likely in other situations and it's just restricted. I'm honestly wanting to tear my hair out a little when spread shaman healing. It's boring, dull and bleh.

POTENTIAL FIXES FOR STACKED and SPREAD:-
Chain Healing Healing Reduction Cap eliminated or far less for especially third and fourth jump.

OR
CH now hits five targets. Healing reduction lessened.

Also faster to cast and range increased drastically.

More totems to use for spread out healing. I honestly do not have great ideas but I think totems have a lot of potential to help fix the problem.

Resto Shaman Spread Grade:C-

/slap.

I think the greatest thing shamans could use is a buttload list of mechanics changes. For example Chain Heal is not by itself weak. It's actually strong on the first and second jump. Very strong with gear. But all of its faults

-slow cast, short range, 4 target cap and others just jumps out so many times its far outweights the pros of the spell.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
Resto Shaman (10MAN PERSPECTIVE ONLY)

HR is of course incredibly important to our throughput, but it's important to keep in mind in terms of "casting resources used" that it's not just a 2sec cast (lowered by your Haste); you also have to be sure to activate Unleash Life prior to placing HR, or you lose UL's 30% boost to HR's throughput, which is unacceptable.

If you use the EM/PE "build", it means you need to do the following in the moments leading up to the imminent burst healing:

- Have 2 Riptide targets maintained (should be standard procedure anyway, but it's worth mentioning in terms of having to juggle all of these things to "prep"); Riptide has a 6 sec cooldown and is an instant cast/GCD.

- Drop your Fire Elemental totem, and activate his channeling to boost your healing done (instant cast/GCD for the Elemental; activating his Empower ability DOES NOT trigger the GCD, and thus can be macro'd in)

- Activate UL (instant cast/GCD)

- Place HR (2 sec cast)

- Activate your Elemental Mastery talent (instant cast, DOES NOT trigger the GCD, and can be macro'd to other abilities if you'd like; I think it's quite common to macro it to HTT while also having EM sitting separately on your bar for uses in between HTT cooldowns)

- Activate Ascendance and/or HTT (each is instant cast; Ascendance DOES NOT trigger the GCD and can be macro'd to other things. HTT does trigger the GCD).

----------------------- Alright.

So how long ahead of the burst healing requirements do you need to start setting this up?

- 1 sec for the first Riptide

- 5 more seconds to wait for it to come off cooldown

- 1 sec for the second Riptide

- 1 sec for the FET + "Empower" macro, if you did not already have it down because the healing boost would be wasted until the start of the burst healing

- 1 sec for UL

- 2 sec for HR

and now you're ready for your 1sec EM/HTT macro, or your "doesn't trigger the GCD" EM/Ascendance macro, and can commence whatever healing you're going to do on top of all of the other effects ticking away (CH spam if remotely close to stacked, or single target bombs - high crit builds probably go HS over GHW though, I'd think?). It took 12 seconds (11 if HTT wasn't used) of tightly-choreographed action.

Oh, and if you're using Ascendance, you're also going to want to trigger Spiritwalker's Grace (instant, DOES NOT trigger the GCD) before you actually activate EM/Ascendance, if you're going to have to be moving during the burst.

You'll lose your 1st Riptide target 6 seconds into your burst (sooner, if you're not a computer program that can select & activate spells *perfectly* ;D ), which is important for CH purposes. If the raid isn't more-or-less stacked, you'll want to have been very careful about your *second* Riptide target selection pre-burst, because you're not going to want to waste a GCD to re-cast Riptide during EM (most especially if you've popped Ascendance). So that *second* Riptide target had better be a player you're relatively sure will be... somewhere where CH can be launched from to reach its full compliment of targets. Easier now than pre-5.3, yes, but nonetheless a consideration.

For that reason, it might be of use to select *yourself* as the second pre-burst Riptide target... because unless your RL's strat specifically requires you to be away from others for the burst, you have complete control over placing yourself and your Riptide where it's best for your CH cast.

MY CONCERNS:

- spread healing. Glyph of Chaining is close to required for 10man if you're going to hope to use a bunch of CH is... saddening (very glad, however, that CH can now hop to an uninjured target if it needs to, in order to get into range to jump to an injured target... instead of just stopping when it couldn't find an injured target in range, wasting the rest of its jumps).

- HTT, which is mandatory over the other lvl 75 talents. I don't mind the ability's role in shaman healing at all; I just object to its position as a talent, if it's going to be as strong a cooldown as it is.

- SLT's extreme limitation, given that it is supposedly our *big* healing cooldown. In order to reduce its limitation in one very specific aspect, we are *required* to spend a *talent* in order to be able to place it anywhere but at our own feet. The other two lvl 45 talents are strong choices on a regular basis, yet we have to abandon their use in order to make our big raid cooldown useful in many situations. Again - don't get me wrong. I think SLT is a really interesting cooldown. I'm just concerned at how many meaningful limitations there are on it actually being able to make the difference a class's big raid cooldown should.

I read all the resto shaman threads which get posted here and over on the shaman forum, and I see the concerns about our actually hps #s, though I don't personally see it happening to me with my guild's not-leet progress/3-healing.
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90 Dwarf Priest
14030
I raid 25s as a Holy priest. I think the spec does fine for AoE healing both stacked and spread, but I wish Holy Word: Sanctuary was more rewarding to use properly.

I don't raid 10s but I'm fairly sure Holy is still eclipsed by what Discipline brings. Not that I wasn't okay with playing Discipline, but feeling a lot less useful to the raid as Holy was frustrating and probably still is. I wish that wasn't the case.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11435
I raid 25s as a Holy priest. I think the spec does fine for AoE healing both stacked and spread, but I wish Holy Word: Sanctuary was more rewarding to use properly.

I don't raid 10s but I'm fairly sure Holy is still eclipsed by what Discipline brings. Not that I wasn't okay with playing Discipline, but feeling a lot less useful to the raid as Holy was frustrating and probably still is. I wish that wasn't the case.


I never understood Sanctuary. For a 16k mana cost every other healer could so much more.

I think in 25 man's disc has it niches but holy brings a very oomph factor to it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11435
Bubble spam is viable isn't it with higher levels of gear? And if so isn't it good for rampage before it starts?
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90 Human Paladin
15480
must be nice having a aoe heal... all i got is halo


did the disable off pen?

edit: as a side note AoE healing seems to have gotten a bit much as of late. In 25 man it is spam your AoE heal as much as possible. Not as much the case in 10 man on certain classes. Wouldn't mind seeing it toned down a bit.
Edited by Taelaus on 6/5/2013 11:58 AM PDT
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100 Tauren Druid
20885
Druid - Our entire feckin' toolkit is AoE. Stacked, spread? We got it covered.

Stacked

Shrooms are insane right now, so there is no reason to ignore them in stacked situations. Even when not fully charged, they are a decent group heal. Rampages were built for Shrooms.

Swiftmend for Efflo, right into Wild Growth, especially with Soul of the Forest.

Spread

As a note, our spread healing tools can be used equally effectively for stacked situations, pretty much our only "Stack only" spells are 'shrooms and Efflo.

Rejuve spam is still our bread and butter, and shines especially on fights with high movement and people spread all the heck over the place. Lei Shen when Gale Winds is up is perfect for Rejuve spam. With the legendary meta, spam the crap out of Rejuve when it procs, bonus points if 'shrooms are out.

Wild Growth is strong in 10 mans, less so in 25. The glyph does help in 25s, but does best when paired with the Soul of the Forest talent. Incarnation boosts Wild Growth by one target, but is an overall throughput loss compared to Soul throughout an entire fight. I use Soul for fights that do not have scripted monster bursts of damage, and Incarnation for super spikey fights.

Incarnation - Tree of Life used to be considered more of a mana CD than a throughput one, but can work wonders in high movement, high spike damage on individuals situations. I find the best use of it is to pop tree 5-10 seconds before the burst starts, use that time to Lifebloom key targets (healers, tanks, clothies), and then spam Wild Growth for the extra target, and Regrowth on those taking hits. The preplaced Lifeblooms will proc Omen of Clarity to help sustain the Regrowth spam, as well as Lucidity from the meta, and when they bloom, they will provide a small burst heal as well.

Tranq is still the granddaddy of our spread AoE heals. Supported by Tree of Life, it hits like a mother-shut-your-mouth. I haven't used it in 25s outside of LFR since the buff, but if LFR is any indication, the buff is huge.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Tranq is redic in 25 man, Druids are monsters now...
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Monk is all about the burst, especially in aoe

Always
Renewing mist on cooldown, expel harm on cooldown (when you aren't at 100% health) for the chi. Spam soothing mist if people are hurting and you need rapid chi generation, let it ride for a bit on the tank if damage output is low and you just want to get up to 4 chi. Make sure you have 5-6 renewing mists (extra points if you manage 7) up AND at least 3 chi just before major raid damage. Once damage starts, thunder focus tea, keep planting renewing mist/expel harm on cooldown, and spam soothing mist like crazy. Every 2 chi, uplift.

MW is about being prepared. Always know how many renewing mists you have out and when the next one will drop off (I use affinitii's weak aura tracker for that), and plan out when to use thunder focus tea to its best effect. Uplift spam with 10 renewing mists up is incredibly effective.

Stacked
For heavy, extended damage, som spam/uplift is still the winner, but stacking opens some other doors. Chi torpedo through the stack followed by a backpedel chi torpedo back to your original position is surprisingly effective for a free heal. Chi burst is great to take when you know there is a lot of stacking. Spinning Crane Kick is a good choice when you have really fallen behind on renewing mist, or when there is stacked movement involved (like durumu). Rushing Jade Wind makes it better, but it is still hard to sustain due to mana cost. SCK chi generation is also nowhere near as effective as SoM spam
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90 Dwarf Priest
12850
PoH, CoH, level 90, lightwell/lightspring, Divine Hymn Prayer of Mending (is this an AoE? My definition is one cast hitting more than one person. So yes. And bubble spam isn't)
Holies can't complain.
Well, I can ALWAYS complain. But my heals feel fine.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11865
SS is good when people are stacked up yes. but on may fights like tortos ji kun dark animus twins ect people are spread out so SS does not cover everyone.


If parties are regularly not within 30 yards of someone in the party, then groups should either be re-organized, or people need to be yelled at. Not being able to hit at least 4 people with the majority of your PoHs is poor planning on SOMEONE's part.

Edit: And bubble spam is expensive, but with the legendary meta gem and rapture, it's quite a viable strategy. It works in 25m too, but you just don't get quite the same coverage as you do in 10m.
Edited by Freezieplate on 6/6/2013 3:34 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Priest
13415
PoH, CoH, level 90, lightwell/lightspring, Divine Hymn Prayer of Mending (is this an AoE? My definition is one cast hitting more than one person. So yes. And bubble spam isn't)
Holies can't complain.
Well, I can ALWAYS complain. But my heals feel fine.


Never enough Spirit. NEVER ENOUGH!

/end complaining
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90 Human Priest
11640
06/06/2013 03:32 AMPosted by Freezieplate
SS is good when people are stacked up yes. but on may fights like tortos ji kun dark animus twins ect people are spread out so SS does not cover everyone.


If parties are regularly not within 30 yards of someone in the party, then groups should either be re-organized, or people need to be yelled at. Not being able to hit at least 4 people with the majority of your PoHs is poor planning on SOMEONE's part.

Edit: And bubble spam is expensive, but with the legendary meta gem and rapture, it's quite a viable strategy. It works in 25m too, but you just don't get quite the same coverage as you do in 10m.


This is my priest. I'm raiding on my shaman (Ellarix; I posted earlier) in MoP, but I assure you at heart I'm a Disc priest, and while I haven't had much opportunity to run her in normal-mode ToT yet, I stay as on top of Disc as I can because my co-healer is a Disc who needs help.

The normal-mode kills I *did* get (Jin x 2, and a Horridon kill), with a group that mostly had more gear than necessary to do ToT but some people with *serious* skill deficiencies, I had zero problems with 10man bubble-spam.

I have no legendary meta

I did not have Horridon's trinket at the time; I had the i463 Barrel of Empty Fruit and the LFR version of Tsulong's trinket (i483). I still had i458 bracers, and an i463 neck. I was able to buy the SPA trinket with the VP I got from the Horridon kill on which I won the Horridon trinket ;)

*AND* we 2-healed. My partner was a pally with i490-ish normal-mode gear and some ToT LFR pieces. She's come a long way from how she performed when I ran with the group in H DS (they had some turnover in MoP and lost a few key people... she wasn't one of the group's better players at the time, but she's improved in MoP so yay), but I out-healed her.

Loratabb is a really good Disc priest. She's been present on-and-off on the Priest forum all through Cata, so far as I remember, and I've been pleased to see her around for MoP. I don't mean for anything I say here to be a criticism of her because she's obviously doing something right ;D I'm just providing my own experience.

I will not make any pronouncements for 10man H, and I will not make any pronouncements for 25man... but yeah. PW:S is alive and well for spread-shielding and for pre-shielding between SS cooldowns, insofar as under-geared Disc running normal-mode ToT 10man. And if you play a priest (Holy or Discipline! PoH is important for both!) and don't have your RL on board for shifting players in and out of groups as needed per fight... or if people aren't conscious of where they're supposed to be standing for healing requirements and nothing is being done about it... then something's wrong.

If you play with a group who just accept that raid groups aren't going to be altered as needed, or with a RL who will just leave people to stand/move wherever they want even when they're doing things which means they're not able to be healed efficiently... then you'll find whichever class you pick will have problems/limitations of one sort or another. Loratabb's advice, if you raid in this situation, *will* hold true for Disc... but it'll hold true in some other important way for any healer you play in that situation.
Edited by Iritha on 6/6/2013 7:35 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
9035
I feel like I have a tool for every situation as Disc, except an omgtranq/hymn type thing, which would be absolutely ludicrous in our hands. We have barrier for those situations anyway, it's just much less visceral. We have amazing stacked potential with Divine Star/PoH/PoM and good spread with the switch of a talent. We have what is obviously the best pre-emptive healing in the game and offer a lot of interesting things to a group.

I hate the notion that people think PoH sucks now. Not being overpowered is different than being bad, it still has a role and fills it. If you're not using PoH because of group limitations, that's a RL issue or the fight just doesn't cater to PoH (in which case it probably doesn't cater to Holy Radiance or Chain Heal either). We just use more PoM/PW:S/Level 90 talents/Atonement in those situations, just as other classes would focus more on Holy Light/beacon efficiency or riptide/tidal wave/HST usage in those cases.
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