The Decline of Hardcore Alliance Raid Guilds

90 Pandaren Rogue
19010
UPDATE: Over the past day or so, I've gotten responses for MULTIPLE hardcore raiders about the problem of hardcore guilds starting to transfer on a large scale from Alliance to Horde. This includes players from guilds like Midwinter, Immersion, Ascendance, Dread, and others.

Link to their responses: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9244925251?page=3#52
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My original post:

This past week of the 50% character services sale has brought grim tidings for Hardcore Alliance raiding guilds. Namely, in the number of longtime, hardcore Alliance guilds deciding that Alliance is bad enough to faction change to Horde. There's a difference between when an individual faction changes and an entire 25 man hardcore guild faction changes. The former is usually caused by a person changing to join friends on a different server, joining a new guild, or one's current faction being non-existent on their current realm. The later situation is usually caused by an entire guild seeing something drastically wrong with current faction.

This problems of Hardcore Alliance guilds faction changing to Horde has become sort of a problem since the end of Cataclysm. It started out with Top 5 World guilds like Method and vodka abandoning their Alliance roots for access to better racials. Everyone brushed this off as the guilds racing for world firsts doing what they had to do. Blizzard pretty much said that and shrugged it off. However, since Blizzard announced the characters services sale, three or more Hardcore Alliance guilds have pulled the lever and gone Horde with whispers of a couple more to follow. The catcher is that none of these guilds are currently in direct competition with guilds like Method or Blood Legion.
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The Book of the Fallen:: Alliance Guilds that have recently gone Horde

Dread of Korgath-US:
Dread had been a longtime hardcore raiding guild that had been raiding at a respectable level with at least T3, back in classic. They may have suffered setbacks here and there, but they always found a way to bounce back. They're not a Top 20 World guild, but they're more often than not in the Top 25 US rankings. After their HC ToT clear for the week, their guild pulled the level and decided to go Horde. The kicker for them, is that they're not server transferring either. For those that aren't aware, Horde on Korgath are noticeably outnumbered by Alliance, so they didn't change to due lack of Alliance on the server.

Intent of Kel'thuzad-US:
Intent has been a steady top 30 US 25 man guild. While they've never competed for a world first, I've met a few of them and they're a good bunch of people who get stuff done relatively quickly by most standards. They decided to server transfer and faction change earlier this week.

Ascendance on Alonus-EU:
I am admittedly ignorant on the circumstances for Ascendance's faction change due to not knowing people there, but I do know they did it within the last day or so. What I do know is that they have consistently been a Top 20 World guild the past couple of tiers. They also server transferred to Draenor-EU.

Savitas on Frostwhisper-EU:

Savitas isn't 25 man, but they are the world 2nd 10 man. Until little more than a week ago, they were a Swedish speaking Alliance guild. Their change is so recent, that when I last checked, their website still showed them as Alliance instead of Horde.

Huge in Japan on Kil'jaeden-US:

HiJ has never been a world first guild. However, they've consistently been a top 30 US guild for 25 mans. I'm not positive behind the reasons for why they specifically chose to go Horde, but some people did leave, and right now, it's just extremely hard for an Alliance guild to "recover" so to speak. As a Horde guild, there are admittedly fewer obstacles to potential recruits.

Burning Sensations of Korgath-US:
US 11th 10 man guild. They originally raided 25 man from TBC until mid-Firelands when they shifted down to 10 man. Again, not anywhere close to a world first guild, but they took themselves serious enough to find that going Horde would be to their advantage even though Alliance outnumbers Horde 2:1 on Korgath.

Incarnate of Ner'zhul-US
Incarnate has been another consistent top 20 US 25 man guilds for a good number of tiers and finished US 16th for 25 mans this tier. I can definite confirm through my source in Incarnate that they are indeed faction changing.

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Why is it a bad thing if Alliance guilds are faction changing to Horde? Simply put, it puts pressure on the remaining Hardcore Alliance guilds to also go Horde. First and foremost, it can seriously hamper an Alliance guild's recruitment. As more guilds go Horde, the pool of LIKELY apps to Alliance guilds decreases. I've personally known some people that would not app to a top 10 Alliance guild merely because the guild was not Horde. Just because someone is looking at a guild in a specific range, does not mean that they'll also faction change if there's another guild within that range that does not require a faction change.

Why are Alliance guilds going Benedict Arnold on their faction? It's a combination of issues to be honest. There's the fact that Alliance has kind of gotten the cold shoulder in terms of lore development compared to Horde. One could also make the argument that Orgrimmar is much better capital than Stormwind, with Org having gotten a pretty snazzy overhaul while Stormwind still has a giant blackened ruin where the Park District used to be. However, I've found hardcore raiders to be more practical people who are less concerned with lack of lore and city designs. The primary drivers for the exodus from Alliance -> Horde has chiefly been the Horde racials in PvE and the pool of likely apps.

I already touched briefly on the pool of likely apps. Someone looking for a new guild will prefer to not faction change when looking for a guild. If 20 of the top 25 guilds in your region are Horde, it's going to be a lot easier for a top 10 guild that's Horde to recruit players than a top 10 guild that's Alliance in that region.

The racials issue is a much more heated argument. However, if you ask a person in an Alliance guild that's even Top 50 World if they wish they had access to Troll or Orc racials for raiding, most would say yes. Trolls' Berseking and Orcs' Bloodfury are the only two racials that provide on demand burst dps. In hardcore raiding, players often have to provide a large amount of dps during specific parts of a fight. What do Alliance have in terms of dps racials? They have Pandaren, which Horde also has, Worgen which bring a static 1% crit, which is kind of a "meh" stat for most classes, and a bunch of expertise/hit racials that require a specific type of weapon but put you over expertise and hit caps. To add insult to injury, Trolls have +5% damage to beasts (which worked on bosses this tier) and +expertise will all ranged weapons. Orcs also get a 2% increased damage done via pets and +expertise with axes and fists.

When one faction has two races that have such biased racials and the other gets peanuts, is it any surprise when guilds want to faction change? Yeah, you can make the argument that Alliance might have better tanking and healing racials than Horde for pve. However, when you boil it down, it's a pretty bad argument when you're talking about hardcore raiding. Most hardcore guilds are constantly trying to find a way to eek out 1-2% more damage during certain parts of fight. Tanks having slightly better survivability or healers having slightly higher regen is very rarely the determining factor in a fight. Can it happen, yeah. But in the current raiding environment, it's not too uncommon for even tanks and healers to look for a way to deal the most damage they can to a boss while also performing their role.

Why am I making such a big deal out of a supposed 2% difference in dps? As an Alliance player who likes to raid hardcore, it's rather irksome to log on one day and find that 4-5 of your friends in other hardcore raiding guilds are no longer Alliance because their guilds faction changed due to said racials.
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EDIT 6/9 @ 3:30 EDT: Added link to responses from other hardcore raiders.
6/9 @ 10:30 PM EDT: "The Book of the Fallen" has grown
Edited by Vigilate on 6/10/2013 11:36 AM PDT
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100 Dwarf Warrior
16165
WALL OF TEXT AAARRGGHHHH! WORGEN BRAIN CAN'T HANDLE, RESORT TO PREDATORY INSTINCT.
Edited by Roxhemar on 6/8/2013 1:22 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Rogue
19010
WALL OF TEXT AAARRGGHHHH! WORGEN BRAIN CAN'T HANDLE, RESORT TO PREDATORY INSTINCT.

I'm guessing you would have preferred a simple one liner post consisting of,
"OMGZ ALLIANCE RACIALZ ARE BADS. ALLY GUILDS GOING HORDE. PLZ FIX BLIZZ!!!" no?
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90 Troll Warlock
20435
WALL OF TEXT AAARRGGHHHH! WORGEN BRAIN CAN'T HANDLE, RESORT TO PREDATORY INSTINCT.


tl;dr: Horde racials are OP and Alliance racials suck.

Which I agree with, it's been like this for a loooooong time. The Undead racial change (making it awesome in both PvP and PvE) and Beastslaying not being touched in ToT are ridiculous.

The Alliance style of "defensive" racials simply do not stand up to the Horde's more offensive racials.
Edited by Awkwardz on 6/8/2013 1:28 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Warlock
14515
And they wonder why humans don't want to give up EMFH.
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100 Dwarf Warrior
16165
I'm guessing you would have preferred a simple one liner post consisting of,"OMGZ ALLIANCE RACIALZ ARE BADS. ALLY GUILDS GOING HORDE. PLZ FIX BLIZZ!!!" no?


Yes, yes I would have. To reiterate however, while i'm not going to pretend I hardcore raid currently in MoP, but I did back in wrath. And I believe I recall the horde being jealous of our draenei racial which gave 1% hit to all raid members, which has since been nerfed. In current times, I can see how the troll racial is a bit OP however, with ALOT of the mobs in ToT being beasts, so that is a bit of horde-favouritism, but I don't think it was intended. As for the burst buff's...they are nice, yes. But Alliance also has the best tanks so...you take one or the other, I guess.
Edited by Roxhemar on 6/8/2013 1:30 PM PDT
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Read it all. Excellent post.

Racials should have been balanced a long time ago. Or at least have a overhaul.

There's an observable shift in faction balance. A better racial IS a factor in decision making even for mid-pack raiders such as myself. (I'm undead for RP yea yea)
Edited by Graphite on 6/8/2013 1:32 PM PDT
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Which I agree with, it's been like this for a loooooong time. The Undead racial change (making it awesome in both PvP and PvE) and Beastslaying not being touched in ToT are ridiculous.
You can get better racials when we get EMFH for pvp.

And touch of the grave "awesome"? You know that the amount it heals it's nothing compared to the 30% of gift of the naaru right?
Edited by Midare on 6/8/2013 1:32 PM PDT
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90 Orc Hunter
13715
Personally, I'd say bite the bullet and go horde.

06/08/2013 01:31 PMPosted by Midare
Which I agree with, it's been like this for a loooooong time. The Undead racial change (making it awesome in both PvP and PvE) and Beastslaying not being touched in ToT are ridiculous.
You can get better racials when we get EMFH for pvp.


He's a troll -.-
Edited by Gulder on 6/8/2013 1:32 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Warlock
14515
You can get better racials when we get EMFH for pvp.


Or make all racials 100% cosmetic. Even better.
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100 Human Priest
3640
I have 2 unholy dks. One Human and one Orc. For PvE purposes, yeah....don't really need to finish.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
8045
So Blizzard should turn the tables on racials every expansion so raiding guilds spend extra money to faction change.

They're already a tiny portion of the player base, they can be milked for more money.

Cha-ching.

Brilliant suggestion Vigilate.
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90 Troll Warlock
20435
Yes, yes I would have. To reiterate however, while i'm not going to pretend I hardcore raid currently in MoP, but I did back in wrath. And I believe I recall the horde being jealous of our draenei racial which gave 1% hit to all raid members, which has since been nerfed. I ncurrent times, I can see how the troll racial is a bit OP however, with ALOT of the mobs in ToT being beasts, so that is a bit of horde-favouritism, but I don't think it was intended. As for the burst buff's...they are nice, yes. But Alliance also has the best tanks so...you take one or the other, I guess.


Previous wrongs don't make up or cancel out past wrongs.

But the inherent problem with Alliance racials is that they're simply too insignificant to matter. The strongest tank racial is 10% DR on a 3 min CD (the best function for this is clearing bleeds) or 2% dodge.

Ignoring the free 5% damage from Beastslaying, Trolls were already the strongest race for many classes simply because they give you a significant amount of burst on demand.
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91 Blood Elf Mage
5870
Blizzard wont fix racials or merge servers because they make money off of the faction and server transfers. The only way to affect this is to cancel your sub. Loss of income is the only thing a company understands or cares about.
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41 Gnome Priest
310
Racials should have been cosmetic. If blizzard hasn't changed racials in this long, I doubt they will change them now despite the fact that horde racials have been so overpowered for so long.
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90 Orc Hunter
13715
So Blizzard should turn the tables on racials every expansion so raiding guilds spend extra money to faction change.

They're already a tiny portion of the player base, they can be milked for more money.

Cha-ching.

Brilliant suggestion Vigilate.


This is really what they already do. What they just did, rather, with the whole beastslaying thing.
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MVP
100 Night Elf Priest
11795
Will be interesting when things get re-adjusted, and all those guilds pay for a transfer back to alliance.
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90 Troll Warlock
20435
And touch of the grave "awesome"? You know that the amount it heals it's nothing compared to the 30% of gift of the naaru right?


Gift of the Naaru doesn't deal damage.

But lets look at it this way. Say you've got 500k HP (and no healing modifiers).

Over 3 minutes, GotN heals for 20% of your HP, or 40k healing.

TotG does 15k a proc at 90 (scales off things that increases shadow damage, or damage in general), heals for the amount of damage it deals and procs every 18 seconds or so.

So again, on a 500k HP player you'd roughly get 10 procs over 3 minutes, giving you 150k damage AND healing 150k HP.

GotN is awful.
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91 Blood Elf Mage
5870
Will be interesting when things get re-adjusted, and all those guilds pay for a transfer back to alliance.


When Blizzard switches racials to the other factions favor and collects the transfer dollars.
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90 Gnome Death Knight
4245
Will be interesting when things get re-adjusted, and all those guilds pay for a transfer back to alliance.


Don't hold your breath
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