Frost mage advice

Everything I read tells me to stack haste till 25% then glyph icey veins. After that stack crit till 23%(from gear), so my 2 questions are:
A. Is there a point at which we(frost mages) stop stacking haste?
B. Anyone know exactly what 23% crit is rating wise?
Thank you in advance.

Also if a more experienced mage would like to armory me and give tips I would welcome the double check to make sure I'm doing it all right.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alleria/Oedomsa/advanced
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90 Pandaren Mage
7170
Nah, you keep stacking that haste. And you seem to be doing it right, but you might want to get living bomb instead of frost bomb. Living bomb tends to be far better single target damage. Once you get two RPPM trinkets and the meta, I'd recommend that you switch from hard int gemming to haste gemming.
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06/06/2013 10:27 PMPosted by Boxedwaffle
RPPM trinkets

Huh?

I'd recommend that you switch from hard int gemming to haste gemming

So wait till i have the trinkets... or I should switch the gems now? also I hope i can get a second opinion before i go switching gems around and such... either way thank you for the response.
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90 Pandaren Mage
7170
RPPM trinkets are the new trinkets that drop in ToT. The proc rates are increased by haste. I'd wait until you have two of those and the legendary meta.
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90 Human Mage
8185
I stack int just like you do and it seems to work for me. But Boxed seems like he knows what hes talking about. His ilvl is just beastly.
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90 Gnome Mage
7300
Frost's most favorable secondary stat is haste, even past its soft cap it's the most valuable to Frost.

Boxed is talking about RPPM trinkets. RPPM = Random procs per minute. The trinkets that drop in ToT (Wushoolay, Hydra, and Cha-Ye are the ones you should be going after) proc more often based on your Haste.

So once you get those trinkets you should gem towards Haste, not Int. You could actually gem towards Haste even prior, Simcraft will probably put you ahead on dps with a haste build even with 1 RPPM trinket.
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90 Troll Mage
12270
Just as a correction to above, RPPM stands for Real Procs Per Minute not Random.
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100 Troll Mage
19510
Sometimes I wish people would stop saying RPPM and just say, "T15 Trinkets" to save confusion.
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90 Gnome Mage
7300
Just as a correction to above, RPPM stands for Real Procs Per Minute not Random.

Oh ya right!

*duh*

I was watching the Real Housewives show when I read that =p
Edited by Breaktheice on 6/7/2013 10:33 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Mage
10500
Haste to breakpoint, stack intel. Haste to next breakpoint, stack intel. 12,684 is your magic haste number (but that's not the stopping point). Myself and a number of mages are unglyphing IV and getting insane ticks on NT. It's not for everybody but results I have seen are positive.
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90 Gnome Mage
12095
I'm running into the same problem. It seems every guide has different stat priorites and there are enough "pro players" that stand behind each one so it's hard to tell which one is truly the best.

Through Simc I personally found for me that following haste>crit>mastery was the best for me... I can only assume that the priorities highly depend on gear and where you are at. For example the T15 4 set bonus gives a 6% extra chance to trigger FoF.

The reason mastery may pull ahead there is FoF treat your target as if its frozen so mastery would increase how much your FoF ice lance and Brain freeze FFB hit. Just an observation, would love to get that confirmed by someone much more skilled and knowledgeable than I.
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90 Worgen Mage
10500
I'm running into the same problem. It seems every guide has different stat priorites and there are enough "pro players" that stand behind each one so it's hard to tell which one is truly the best.

Through Simc I personally found for me that following haste>crit>mastery was the best for me... I can only assume that the priorities highly depend on gear and where you are at. For example the T15 4 set bonus gives a 6% extra chance to trigger FoF.

The reason mastery may pull ahead there is FoF treat your target as if its frozen so mastery would increase how much your FoF ice lance and Brain freeze FFB hit. Just an observation, would love to get that confirmed by someone much more skilled and knowledgeable than I.


To a degree it has to do with frozen target damage but once you have BiS trinkets, those intel procs from them will shatter cap you at 28%, thus making anything over 23% crit useless. Dump it into mastery.

I saw someone post that stacking crit to the cap and over it was "so that you could crit more with frostbolt". <---- that is the biggest load of crap I've read on here and further proves how little the Frost mage community actually understands about the spec.
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90 Gnome Mage
12095

I saw someone post that stacking crit to the cap and over it was "so that you could crit more with frostbolt".


Rofl, But I didn't realize intellect proc went towards shatter cap. I thought Intellect was all spell Power?
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90 Worgen Mage
10500

I saw someone post that stacking crit to the cap and over it was "so that you could crit more with frostbolt".


Rofl, But I didn't realize intellect proc went towards shatter cap. I thought Intellect was all spell Power?


Intel procs = SP & crit...looks like the post was removed by the author actually lol.

Fully proc'd Wushoolay w/ BoH I'm at 32% crit but I unfortunately can't get rid of anymore :(
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90 Undead Mage
13010

I saw someone post that stacking crit to the cap and over it was "so that you could crit more with frostbolt".


Rofl, But I didn't realize intellect proc went towards shatter cap. I thought Intellect was all spell Power?


1000 int
= 1050 SP and 248 crit rating
= 1213 SP and 261 crit rating (SP and 5% stats buff)
Edited by Abracadaver on 6/12/2013 8:55 PM PDT
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90 Troll Mage
12450
I would have thought that once you get the meta, Int would become a better stat than haste.

There's every chance I am entirely wrong, but here's my logic:

The meta will take you below the GCD , making haste after that point less valuable except to NT/LB ticks. Surely at this point, having spells that hit harder (because essentially you can only cast X number of spells if you go over GCD anyway) would be more beneficial?

I dunno, maybe it's a combination of lag with the GCD, but I feel like my mage does more damage having switched most of my gems to 160int (red) and 80int/160haste (yellow) instead of straight up 320 haste.

I run LB for single-target and FB for trash/horridon/council (I still maintain that I get more BF procs using FB on an average fight, plus I like not having rng procs). Is it a case where NT/LB scale very well with haste resulting in more procs thus more damage?

As you can probably tell, I'm not into simcrafting or maths of any kind so a simple explanation of why Haste > Int would be much appreciated.
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90 Gnome Mage
7300
^The 50% Haste soft cap will affect roughly half of Frost's DPS as the GCD can't go lower past that point.

- Ice Lance
- Frostfire Bolt (via BrainFreeze)
- Frozen Orb
- Your Bomb (damage will improve past 50% Haste, GCD will not go lower)

Your Bomb's damage, Frostbolt, and Evocation still benefit from Haste past 50% though. And yes while Frost does have horrible scaling issues, Haste is still the most valuable secondary stat it can stack, even past 50%.

You'll get into problems with Frostbolt if & when you hit 100% Haste because then it can cast in less than a second and the GCD won't go any lower.
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90 Troll Mage
12450
Cheers Breaktheice, up until now I've never had it explained in a very understandable way.
I'll give it a try this week with more haste gems and see how big a difference it makes. Hopefully more haste = more rppm = less rng on AT.
It would be nice though if Frozen Orb scaled with haste (maybe this is a good way to keep frost competitive in 5.4, hint hint).
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