Is It Just Me...

90 Blood Elf Paladin
8465
Or can other classes do everything we can do better, while simultaneously doing things we can't. I'm talking about PvP here.

I feel like playing Ret is a handicap.

Since I have started pvping on my dk I have achieved more in a few days than I ever have on my Paladin, IN BLOOD(I haven't even tried the other actually viable specs yet)...

This includes 1750 rating in 2 days, the capability to solo healers(granted it takes time but still), better control, more pressure overall, you don't need a hunter to carry your lack of cc or control, and you have the capability to survive openers.

Now I will accept being called a terrible paladin, because I am.

I just don't know what I am doing wrong, or how people can use it effectively:l
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
In low rated 2's, blood is broken strong, even most casters that low are too dumb to fight blood properly. Double blood is a serious scumlord comp, probably the biggest one.

Unholy and frost collapse under good openers just like ret does, but if you can kill healers as blood easier than you can as ret you are definitely doing something wrong as ret.
Edited by Cayse on 6/5/2013 4:04 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8465
In low rated 2's, blood is broken strong, even most casters that low are too dumb to fight blood properly. Double blood is a serious scumlord comp, probably the biggest one.


Sure you can faceroll melee easily enough, but what happens when you run into a mage, or a decent healer? It might be might be broken against certain things such as warriors, but beating a caster with a healer as double blood is very difficult.

but if you can kill healers as blood easier than you can as ret you are definitely doing something wrong as ret.


Yes, this is exactly how I feel.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
06/05/2013 04:32 PMPosted by Kathira
In low rated 2's, blood is broken strong, even most casters that low are too dumb to fight blood properly. Double blood is a serious scumlord comp, probably the biggest one.


Sure you can faceroll melee easily enough, but what happens when you run into a mage, or a decent healer? It might be might be broken against certain things such as warriors, but beating a caster with a healer as double blood is very difficult.


Ask Vicious, he's quite a bit higher and runs double blood. Most casters and nearly all hunters have awful pet control and will let you just feed off them.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8465
06/05/2013 04:41 PMPosted by Cayse


Sure you can faceroll melee easily enough, but what happens when you run into a mage, or a decent healer? It might be might be broken against certain things such as warriors, but beating a caster with a healer as double blood is very difficult.


Ask Vicious, he's quite a bit higher and runs double blood. Most casters and nearly all hunters have awful pet control and will let you just feed off them.


True, and I don't have issues with hunters as blood, actually I laugh when I see stampede.
I think the worst to fight as blood is mage/mistweaver. The mage can kite you endlessly and necrotics don't seem to effect mistweavers at all, even with both of us popping dancing rune weapon at once with 4 death runes. That is primarily what I was referring to.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
True, and I don't have issues with hunters as blood, actually I laugh when I see stampede.


Exactly what I mean. Ret used to be able to laugh at stampede, switch to insight and it would proc off every single hammer of the righteous hit. Stampede was like a free heal to 100% for ret. :(

06/05/2013 04:46 PMPosted by Kathira
I think the worst to fight as blood is mage/mistweaver.


Mistweaver is ugly for melee and blood is pretty much the least-mobile of everything, it's not so much the mage.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8465
Honestly, I really didn't post this thread just to complain about Ret not being good or anything like that. I seriously don't know what I am doing wrong.

I just hope this doesn't come off as one of those threads, because that isn't my point at all.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
Ret has to work harder to get just about anything. Except burst.. we do that pretty easily.
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100 Tauren Paladin
13095
Exactly what I mean. Ret used to be able to laugh at stampede, switch to insight and it would proc off every single hammer of the righteous hit. Stampede was like a free heal to 100% for ret. :(


So this doesn't work as effective anymore because of the nerf to PvP healing?

Also I've been trying to find a great word for Double Blood DK's, and scumlord seems about right. I also feel the same could be applied to double Locks.
Edited by Buhbuhdin on 6/5/2013 6:17 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8465
06/05/2013 06:16 PMPosted by Buhbuhdin
Also I've been trying to find a great word for Double Blood DK's, and scumlord seems about right.

:l

It's a fun spec...
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
06/05/2013 06:16 PMPosted by Buhbuhdin
Exactly what I mean. Ret used to be able to laugh at stampede, switch to insight and it would proc off every single hammer of the righteous hit. Stampede was like a free heal to 100% for ret. :(


So this doesn't work as effective anymore because of the nerf to PvP healing?


Because the mechanics of HotR were changed.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6975
I feel you... when I play dk, I feel like healers are actually pressured by me attacking them. When I am on ret, i don't feel like I am even a dps class outside of burst. I really miss the Cata sacred shield.
Edited by Vanright on 6/5/2013 6:39 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
17475
I feel you... when I play dk, I feel like healers are actually pressured by me attacking them. When I am on ret, i don't feel like I am even a dps class outside of burst. I really miss the Cata sacred shield.


Yup, that and the inability to live through an opener, or really any pressure from a caster and most melee really makes me not want to pvp. I mean, I either get carried by the dps buddy I play with, or I get rolled like I'm nothing.

What really makes me sad is that Blizzard (or was it just Ghostcrawler?) that said "Ret is right where we want it.", yet there are other classes that are just stupidly strong in comparison, especially damage-wise...
I just don't even..
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10615
Rets are a utility class with great burst potential. Dks are designed to be somewhat like warriors where damage is superior in pvp situations and are able to stick to their targets better than a ret can. So if you enjoy just doing damage then dk/warrior is probably going to be more fun for you.

In 2s for example:
If you run ret/healer then you should win most games against equally geared/skilled double dps teams. But be prepared for longer games against dps/healer teams.

The other thing is that we are talking about 2s it seems. 2s is just not balanced and it won't ever be. Ret in 2s is much more fun/playable if you run double dps. Plus the games are shorter.

Ret is a fun spec for me because I love the utility. I like being able to off heal and freedom etc. I understand what rets aren't which I think many players don't. They want the utility and the cc and the sustained damage but that just isn't going to happen.

Looking you up, you are behind on gear which is going to cause you to run into problems against equally skilled players who are full s13. Also it looks like you're missing several enchants which some might not think is that big of a deal but when under geared everything matters.

If you normally run with a healer, make sure they are chipping in with damage especially against other dps/healer teams when you have the off target cc'd. Against double dps teams you should be able to wear them down so focus on making sure you los their burst, use your sacs to get your healer out of cc etc. If you play double dps then just make sure you are not overlapping cc, and don't be afraid to turtle when you can to heal up. A lot of players run in pop cds don't get a kill and are at 50% or lower and think they can just keep bashing away. If you ever watch a streamer such as Vanguards (especially 5.2) you'd notice he los'd a ton and flash of light healed himself even with out 3 stacks of selfless healer. Without knowing exactly where you are struggling I hope my humble opinion helps.

Im no glad, but ive been over 2.2 before and over 2100 on this toon this season.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8465
Rets are a utility class with great burst potential. Dks are designed to be somewhat like warriors where damage is superior in pvp situations and are able to stick to their targets better than a ret can. So if you enjoy just doing damage then dk/warrior is probably going to be more fun for you.

In 2s for example:
If you run ret/healer then you should win most games against equally geared/skilled double dps teams. But be prepared for longer games against dps/healer teams.

The other thing is that we are talking about 2s it seems. 2s is just not balanced and it won't ever be. Ret in 2s is much more fun/playable if you run double dps. Plus the games are shorter.

Ret is a fun spec for me because I love the utility. I like being able to off heal and freedom etc. I understand what rets aren't which I think many players don't. They want the utility and the cc and the sustained damage but that just isn't going to happen.

Looking you up, you are behind on gear which is going to cause you to run into problems against equally skilled players who are full s13. Also it looks like you're missing several enchants which some might not think is that big of a deal but when under geared everything matters.

If you normally run with a healer, make sure they are chipping in with damage especially against other dps/healer teams when you have the off target cc'd. Against double dps teams you should be able to wear them down so focus on making sure you los their burst, use your sacs to get your healer out of cc etc. If you play double dps then just make sure you are not overlapping cc, and don't be afraid to turtle when you can to heal up. A lot of players run in pop cds don't get a kill and are at 50% or lower and think they can just keep bashing away. If you ever watch a streamer such as Vanguards (especially 5.2) you'd notice he los'd a ton and flash of light healed himself even with out 3 stacks of selfless healer. Without knowing exactly where you are struggling I hope my humble opinion helps.

Im no glad, but ive been over 2.2 before and over 2100 on this toon this season.


Yeah I know part of it is a gear issue, and I factored that in when I made this post. I think most of my issues with Ret come from being dropped just stupidly fast whenever anything switches on me, anything at all it doesn't matter what it is. I try to los and heal myself, I try to kite but I usually get trained right into the ground.

I also have a terrible time staying on target, particularly on healers. Say I've got a healer into a position where I can kill him, I'll pop cds and obviously get cced. But the real problem is whenever that fear/stun/blind ends I can never get back on him and I usually can't switch onto the dps even if I try to.

The other thing is I don't understand how to keep pressure on the enemy team because usually I'm the one being trained. In which case I have to use resources that could be used for damage to heal myself, even though most dps could burn through my self healing anyway. Where as if I'm on my dk, I can still do decent damage with conversion up.

I'm not sure if this is a L2P issue, or if I'm simply playing the wrong class.
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90 Tauren Paladin
5595
Make sure you have a trinket up for your burst. Think of that as part of your burst, otherwise you're wasting your other cds and become a wet noodle again after their fear, stun, etc.
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100 Human Paladin
18005
ret/hunter

ret/hunter/healer <--- one of the strongest comps

It's really not hard you just have to be decent at utilizing all your skills.
Edited by Ritalynn on 6/6/2013 11:55 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
3555
Blood DKs (or Warrior with 1h/shield in defensive stance) hunters and warlocks are the hardest classes for me to counter currently (Shammys are hard too, they hit VERY hard) but otherwise, this is a lot better than how it used to be when EVERYONE could counter me.
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