Sad State of Resto Shaman: Mechanics Oriented

90 Night Elf Death Knight
11635
I'll start off the thread with a disclaimer that I am NOT a super high end super geared shaman with oodles of knowledge and know how of how shamans work. I do have a shaman I play and I'm just here commenting on the mechanics of how they work. Which to me seems somewhat wonky at times and other times seems to be stupid.

This thread is directed at Blizzard's Devs and the Resto Shaman community at large, or from what I understand of it, what is left of the Resto Shaman community.

Here is a link below to the Shaman Talent page for easy reference,
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#Wb!

Here is also a link to the world of logs report and raidbots comparison tool showing Resto Shamans current placements:(See how Shamans are under performing for the last 3 months straight? That's not an error, Shamans are just that bad)
Raidbots Link, showing all parses over the last three months:

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25H/all/14/90/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

World of Logs Report ToT: (Notice the Horridon Fight, see a problem? The only fights shamans excel in are fights that require little to no movement)

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Throne_of_Thunder/hps/

Talents

Tier 1 - This tier seems almost asinine in it's layout. Shamans are not tanks, shamans used to be OT material, but that was several expansions ago. Saying that shamans can't take a hit is pretty par for the course. Healers don't take hits, they heal through them. Possible fixes here, make Astral Shift castable on a target. This makes it just like a Priest's Pain Suppression, so don't say it's a bad idea. Also a possibility, make Stone Bulwark Totem cast small shields at low health targets. This makes it into a hybrid Power Word: Shield and a Lightwell, which is perfect because Lightwell in my opinion is basically just a powered up Healing Stream Totem.

Tier 2 - All CC abilities, no complaints, this tier seems pretty good.

Tier 3 - Seems to be a totem maximizer tier here, good enough. Except Totemic Projection seems laughably underpowered. On paper it seems good, for last expansions totems. Totems in this expansion however are not working on a long duration, they are working on a 30 second duration most of the time. This means Totemic Projection is just an oops button, hardly viable over the other two choices here which actually bring up the total up time on the totems. Possible fix here, increase the CD on Totemic Projection, but have it reset the totems duration to full.

Tier 4 - Haste tier, pretty good tier, not a lot of complaints. Could argue spell duplicating is a hit or miss mechanic that only improves throughput and doesn't provide much in the way of increasing mobility. It's a known thing though that shamans are lacking in the mobility department guys, not really up for discussion here, just stating a point.

Tier 5 - WTF??? Why is a seemingly baseline spell here in the talents? Druids have Tranquility, Paladins have Holy Radiance and Light of Dawn, Monks have Revival, Priests have Divine Hymn, why oh why is the Shaman version a talent??? And don't even say that Spirit Link Totem is the same, redistributing health is not the same as healing it. Conductivity seems decent enough, except no one stands in Healing Rain long enough to have this talent be useful to Resto. Perhaps if Healing Rain were bigger? or you could place more than one? Otherwise seems pretty bad. Other talent seems okay enough, but seriously, wtf. Healing Tide Totem should not even be a choice, it should be a Resto spec baseline spell.
Edited by Garous on 6/18/2013 11:30 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
11635
Tier 6 - Okay, Elemental reworks here, sounds interesting. Elemental Blast could use a heal component like a Life Shock or something, keep the buff, this'd be nice. Unleashed Fury seems pretty okay, except again Healing rain seems kinda small at the moment guys, also again with the tanking stuff? Rock Biter weapon decreases damage taken by 40%??? Shamans shouldn't be taking damage and I haven't heard of any real shamans using Rock Biter weapon in lieu of a Windfury imbue. Primal Elementalist seems okay, and if you look deep into your temporary elemental's action bar you'll see that they can boost healing! Yay! Except they don't do this normally and you have to macro it in order to get the full effect all the time. Bottom line, this final tier doesn't offer a good healing ability. Modified perhaps it would be better, but overall not very nice to Resto Shamans. I would also offer forth the idea of making Primal Elementalist summon a different powerful elemental depending on your spec. Perhaps a Wind Elemental if you're Elemental Spec who can shoot lightning bolts with you, and perhaps beef up the Fire Elemental for Enhance. For Resto having a Water Elemental who can help you heal all the time would be Amazingly cool. I know there's not any healing pets in the game yet, and yes mages have the water elemental for some reason. But Resto Shamans are all about the Water totem, so why not have a Healing Water Elemental?

Stats

Just wanted to take a small aside here and say that Resto Mastery sucks hard. It's only useful in emergency situations where people are already dying, and near full health does just about nothing. All the other healing specs Mastery is much more useful than Shaman Mastery. Druids get a HoT bump from mastery, Disc Priests get a more powerful absorb effect(Which by the way, absorbs kill direct healing classes, I'm looking at your Disc Priests) Perhaps a better mastery choice would be just flat healing bonus the more mastery you have. Currently it's already being done lopsidedly by increasing shaman healing when the target's health is low, why not just make it full time and let people know their heals are more powerful in normal circumstances? Or why not have the Mastery have a chance to spawn a small water totem that doesn't overwrite the current water totem out that does a small Healing Rain around it based on however large the heal that spawned it and how much mastery the Shaman has?

Other stats the shamans have seem kinda weird too, there doesn't seem to be a clear choice about how to reforge for best viability. Haste is useful for the faster casts as usual, but Crit seems to play a weird role in determining if a small healing ancestor goes off. (By the way, T15 Resto bonus is crap, since the ancestor healing is based on how big the initial heal was, having a small heal spawn the ancestor just makes for a tiny heal that does almost nothing) Spirit is a big thing here for Shamans, as with all other healing classes.

Glyphs

For the sake of fairness I put all the glyphs up here and my personal thoughts on them. My thoughts are NOT the thoughts of the shaman community. Should our views coincide that's one thing, but this is just MY personal take on the glyphs.

Glyph of Chain Lightning - Very Useful
Glyph of Chaining - Useful, but Chain Heal is still healing oddly if I understand it correctly.
Glyph of Cleansing Waters - Very Useful
Glyph of Feral Spirit - Another Self Heal Spell...
Glyph of Fire Elemental Totem - Could be combined with Earth Elemental, just saying.
Glyph of Flame Shock - Self Heal Spell, stop trying to make shaman tanks happen. They're not...
Glyph of Ghost Wolf - Very Useful PvP
Glyph of Grounding Totem - Useful
Glyph of Healing Storm - Why is this a Enhance Glyph? They're not healers!
Glyph of Healing Stream Totem - Aren't resistances slowly being removed?
Glyph of Healing Wave - So... Binding Heal?
Glyph of Purge - Somewhat useful
Glyph of Riptide - Why oh why is the healing done being reduced?
Glyph of Spirit Walk - Very Useful, but this and one one below it could stand to be combined.
Glyph of Spiritwalker's Grace - Very Useful
Glyph of Telluric Currents - Very Useful
Glyph of Totemic Recall - Very Useful
Glyph of Totemic Vigor - Totems either don't have the health in the first place or don't need more.
Glyph of Water Shield - Useful Mana Regen
Glyph of Wind Shear - Useful

EDIT:: Removed Clearly non Healing Glyphs

Possible improvements to the glyphs
Healing Rain - Makes Healing Rain cast at a target instead of at a point on the ground.
Edited by Garous on 6/8/2013 1:58 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
11635
Totems

I remember priory shamans had a HUGE number of totems, and they were so useful that it was rumored that there was a secret 'Shaman Totem Spec' that could be played exclusively through the power of totems. Why are the totems on CDs now? Why can't shamans just up and use them all the time? I can understand some totems needing to be on shorter durations, but it just seems like shamans are moving away from their signature spells. There's only 12 totems for a

Resto Shaman now and a number of them aren't even supportive anymore. For the lazy I've added the Current Shaman

Totems.

Normal Resto Totems
Searing Totem - DpS (1m Duration; no CD)
Earthbind Totem - CC (20s Duration; 30s CD)
Healing Stream Totem - Heal (15s Duration; 30s CD)
Magma Totem - DpS (1m Duration; no CD)
Grounding Totem - Utility (15s Duration; 25s CD)
Tremor Totem - Utility (6s Duration; 1m CD)
Mana Tide Totem - Utility / Heal? (16s Duration; 3m CD)
Earth Elemental Totem - DpS (1m Duration; 5m CD)
Capacitor Totem - DpS / CC (5s Duration; 45s CD)
Fire Elemental Totem - DpS (1m Duration; 5m CD)
Spirit Link Totem - Utility / Heal? (6s Duration; 3m CD)
Stormlash Totem - Utility / DpS (10s Duration; 5m CD)

Talent Totems
Stone Bulwark Totem - Survival (30s Duration; 1m CD)
Earthgrab Totem - CC (20s Duration; 30m CD)
Windwalk Totem - Utility (6s Duration; 1m CD)
Healing Tide Totem - Heal (10s Duration; 3m CD)

These are all the unglyphed duration and CDs.

If you are any sort of a Resto Shaman you will take Healing Tide Totem just because it is an obvious, painful choice. When we take a look at these figures (Relevant and Current as of 6/8/13 in patch 5.3) It's pretty obvious that every Healing totem has a much longer CD than it's DpS counterpart. This also applies to Utility totems, CC totems appear to fall in line with DpS totems. Why are Healing totems on longer CDs with less uptime? As far as I see, shamans are not supposed to use totems for their healing that often? I know that's not the case, but the lack of healing abilities provided by totems suggests that. In addition totems themselves aren't really doing totemish things anymore. They're acting like a stationary buff beacon. If that's the case why not just say Shamans can CARRY the totems and provide those buffs as a temp aura? A temp Aura would be much easier to move, allowing shamans some much needed mobility. Surely some would say this would OP shamans, but all it's really doing is making them magic dispel targets. In short form, what I'm saying is that shamans don't appear to be about their totems anymore, the homogenization of classes seems to have crippled shaman play style, which hasn't advanced in the interim. I would like an aside here though to mourn the (late) passing of all those totems that are apparently gone.

Including; Stoneclaw, Stoneskin, Strength of Earth, Fire Nova, Wrath, Flametongue, Cleansing, Resist, Tranquil Mind, Grace of Air, Tranquil Air, Sentry, Windfury, and Wrath of Air totems. What has happened to all these totems you ask? Well...

Stoneclaw, Stoneskin, Strength of the Earth, Cleansing, Resist, Tranquil Mind, Tranquil Air, and Sentry totems are all just gone, deleted.
Fire Nova is now a baseline Enhance spell(not totem).
Wrath is now a baseline Aura.
Flametongue has been replaced by Stormlash.
Grace of Air has been reworked into an Aura that gives Mastery instead of Agility.
Windfury and Wrath of Air have combined into a single talent Aura.

Exactly what I just suggested has already been done to a number of the totems shamans USED to have. Personally I would like to see the revival of Cleansing totem to match Priests Mass Dispel, because otherwise large dispel fights will just OOM any other healer, and Priests shouldn't have a monopoly on that. Sentry totem was a nice totem that could be revamped into a Transcendence style spell similar to the Monk spell. (If you are unfamiliar, Transcendence places a spirit copy of the monk at the current location and allows them to freely swap positions with their spirit) This is again a good mobility spell that Shamans just don't have but could be useful and would not OP them anymore than Monks are now. Stoneskin could also be brought back in a similar style to a druids Barkskin / Ironbark spell.
At this point you may say that I'm making Shamans too much like every other class, but I would say that giving shamans these abilities would just bring their toolbox up to date with that of other Healers. Also, let's face it, every other healer is becoming more like every other healer, except Shamans. Shamans remain unique, but this is hurting more than helping them. The common spells other healers have are important to them, that's why every healer has those spells in their toolbox.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
11635
Spells

Shaman spells are special in that their usage is very reliant on their other spells. I'll go into the specifics as I see them just below, First though I'll list all of the Shamans Healing Abilities!

Healing Surge (HS) - basic fast expensive heal
Riptide - Druid Regrowth style spell, big initial heal with a HoT component, tooltip states that if CH is cast on a target affected by Riptide CH is 25% stronger, meaning cast CH on a riptided target.
Healing Wave (HW) - basic heal, normal cost
Earth Shield (ES) - damage mitigation via active healing per hit; tooltip states that the target also boosts shaman healing by 20%, eg put this on a tank you are healing a lot and heal that tank for max heals.
Healing Stream Totem (HST) - Totem heal that will sit and target low health targets and heal them, personal observation, this totem takes too long to begin casting heals at it's target.
Earthliving Weapon (EW) - boosts SP for the Shaman and has a chance to put a HoT on the target of the shamans heals
Chain Heal (CH) - Heals a target then jumps to a nearby target to heal them, jumping to a total of 4 targets. This spell could use a rework, as a wandering DpS can mess up a carefully timed CH.
Healing Rain (HR) - heals at a point the shaman chooses on the ground for 10 seconds.
Greater Healing Wave (GHW) - big, slow heal
Spirit Link Totem (SLT) - redistributes health instead of healing it, not quite as useful unless everyone has lots of health and only one or two people need healed.
Healing Tide Totem (HTT) - SHOULD be baseline for Rest for Resto Shamans, as it is Druids tranq / Monk Revival / Priest Divine Hymn / Pallies Holy Radiance / etc...

These are not healing spells per say, but they affect how Shaman healing works and I feel deserve a mention.

Water Shield (WS) - regens mana
Purify Spirit - magic / curse dispel
Ancestral Swiftness - Druid's Nature's Swiftness, allows one spell under 10s cast time to be instant.
Ancestral Awakening (AA) - Any time you crit you summon a spirit that heals the most injured party member for 30% of the heal that summoned it.
Resurgence - Allows healing spells to trigger the mana regen portion in addition to being hit
Tidal Waves - CH and Riptide can cause Tidal Waves, which reduces the castime of HW and GHW by 30% and increase the critical effect chance of HS by 30%. Can stack up to 2 times.
Mana Tide Totem (MTT) - Regens mana by increasing spirit
Mastery: Deep Healing - increases the amount of healing the shaman does the lower the health of the target. (This is particularly annoying in healing oriented boss fights, such as Tsulong, as near the end of the encounter shaman mastery begins working against itself by decreasing the heals.)
Unleash Elements - Unleash Life - Does a small heal, and increases the next direct heal or Healing Rain on that target by the shaman by 30%.
Spiritwalker's Grace (SG) - allows free movement for 15s, 2m CD
Ascendance - duplicates healing for 15s, 3m CD

What does all this mean you ask? It means that Shamans need to open with Riptide, hope the group stacks up enough to

Healing Rain, and then also hope that enough people don't run around to screw up Chain Heal. Judging by the Spells, Shamans should be Crit heavy, however because of the long cast time and low mobility Shamans just can't keep up with the other classes. Especially in high movement fights where the shaman can't stop to cast and heal. Shamans do not have a useful instant healing spell that they can use on CD to even temp heal while running. The changes to Lightning bolt to allow casting while moving are a step in the right direction. Possibly allowing on of the primary heals (HS / HW / GHW) to be cast while moving, or gain 'charges' to cast while moving would be a good idea.

Closing thoughts: Shamans suffer from class mechanics in a terrible way, and have little to no toolbox of nifty spells to use to save the raid. Their mastery could use a rework to be universally useful, and mobility is still an issue for them. I'm not sure how often the Shaman healing forums are visited, but I don't ever see blue posts there, while I do see some occasionally in other class forums.

I know everyone has been seeing Shaman QQ threads, that's because there is a problem. A flat +Healing approach would be a bad idea as it's not the heal itself, it's how shamans CAN heal that is the problem. Shamans just need more tools to succeed if they want to truly excel at raiding.

I do welcome discussion though and if you can prove that some of my reasonings are unfounded please inform me of my error. I don't mind being proven wrong, but I do see a problem with Shaman healing right now.
Edited by Garous on 6/7/2013 11:57 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9355
I don't think many people on these forums will say that shaman have no issues right now, but here are a few thoughts I had while reading your post:

Paladins have Holy Radiance and Light of Dawn


This is kind of nitpicky: I won't deny that LoD/EF is much better for spread healing than chain heal/HR, but I certainly wouldn't put it at the level of tranq/revival/DH. Devo aura would be the closest pally ability, I think.

Your whole section on glyphs confuses me as well. Not every shaman glyph has to be pertinent to healing others. Survivability and self-healing glyphs are very handy for people who engage in other aspects of the game besides raiding. PvP and soloing (or questing in small groups for) content require other tools.

Or why not have the Mastery have a chance to spawn a small water totem that doesn't overwrite the current water totem out that does a small Healing Rain around it based on however large the heal that spawned it and how much mastery the Shaman has?


This sounds like it would be doomed to go the way of lightwell and monk mastery orbs. If we have trouble getting people to run into our big healing rains, I can't see them finding the small ones >.>

Healing Rain, and then also hope that enough people don't run around to screw up Chain Heal. Judging by the Spells, Shamans should be Crit heavy, however because of the long cast time and low mobility Shamans just can't keep up with the other classes. Especially in high movement fights where the shaman can't stop to cast and heal. Shamans do not have a useful instant healing spell that they can use on CD to even temp heal while running. The changes to Lightning bolt to allow casting while moving are a step in the right direction. Possibly allowing on of the primary heals (HS / HW / GHW) to be cast while moving, or gain 'charges' to cast while moving would be a good idea.


Stats for shaman are actually more flexible than they are for a lot of classes. At what point does mastery stop being useful for your specific healing team? Should you stack crit for regen instead? Are you going to stack spirit for MTT (not the most fun choice, but it is an option). Are you going to go for high haste breakpoints and just constantly be rolling your hots and small heals? That's much more interesting to me than the mastery stacking that was hpally stat priorities last patch. All of our stats have the potential to be useful in certain setups.

Shaman does have a high skill cap in that you have to plan your heals carefully and not just toss them out and hope for the best. It requires some communication as well ("Please don't run away from the blue circle, people!"). You have to think about who to riptide for chain heal or the various other spells that interact with each other, or unleash elements before you cast that healing rain, or that big tank heal. I won't say shaman are in an amazing place right now HPS-wise, or even mechanics-wise, but these challenges and synergies make the class interesting for some people. For others, it's not their cup of tea, and that's fine.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
11635
I do apologize about the glyphs, I decided against picking just the glyphs I felt were pertinent to Resto and posted all of them. I tried to give useful ratings to glyph which were genuinely useful to the different specs, but some of the glyphs just don't see as useful as they could be.

Your whole section on glyphs confuses me as well. Not every shaman glyph has to be pertinent to healing others. Survivability and self-healing glyphs are very handy for people who engage in other aspects of the game besides raiding. PvP and soloing (or questing in small groups for) content require other tools.

I will admit that a mini healing rain summoning mastery might be less then stellar, but I'm not very sure how to change shaman mastery to always be useful. Currently they're only helpful when people are dying, and that shouldn't be happening too often and having mastery be the 'emergency' stat is pigeon holing it too much I think.

Stats for shaman are actually more flexible than they are for a lot of classes. At what point does mastery stop being useful for your specific healing team? Should you stack crit for regen instead? Are you going to stack spirit for MTT (not the most fun choice, but it is an option). Are you going to go for high haste breakpoints and just constantly be rolling your hots and small heals? That's much more interesting to me than the mastery stacking that was hpally stat priorities last patch. All of our stats have the potential to be useful in certain setups.

My point for the stats is that for new players they're swamped with the different possibilities of how to be a good shaman healer in certain scenarios. Also having niche style healing shouldn't be too prevalent I think. Yes some healers will be better, but what you're suggesting, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Shamans Have to hunker down in a certain heal style (Haste / Spirit / Crit / Mastery) . This doesn't seem fun and I think is a problem. Being able to move around freely and heal different encounters because you can should be what healing is about. It shouldn't be about having a shaman stack spirit up just to use MTT and regen the other healer's mana.

Having a high skill cap is fine, but when the class is underpowered at high skill, there's a problem. I still happily stand by that if Blizz wants to minimize totem use and make them into CD's, make them move WITH the shaman. Back in the day fights could be handled in a way so healers could stand and cast, but the raid mechanics of today aren't so forgiving.
Edited by Garous on 6/8/2013 11:19 AM PDT
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90 Goblin Shaman
8320
06/08/2013 11:17 AMPosted by Garous
I will admit that a mini healing rain summoning mastery might be less then stellar, but I'm not very sure how to change shaman mastery to always be useful. Currently they're only helpful when people are dying, and that shouldn't be happening too often and having mastery be the 'emergency' stat is pigeon holing it too much I think.


In certain healing set up's, a shaman's mastery is actually- /gasp- useful. Our mastery is effective whether someone is sitting at 99% HP or whether they are sitting at 1% HP (and everywhere in between). And it doesn't require me yelling at people to use it (I love monk's but I hate their mastery).

A unless they are doing heroic modes, a lot of the player base doesn't care what WoL says as far as numbers go. Even back during tier 12- when shaman were in a bad spot- I was still getting invites to FL on this one. Biggest reason I got invites? I adjusted to what was required as far as healing goes.

Now, there would be a change I would do with our glyph of riptide, and that would be to at least increase the heal on it so it looks attractive for spread fights. But in general, glyphs are supposed to be situational. I change my glyphs out more than I change my transmogs on my monk.

As for the first tier of our talents, yes, they are damage reduction talents. However, less damage being taken on yourself= the less often you have to heal yourself= the better you can concentrate on what's going on around you. This applies to both pve and pvp. I used to use the old version of stone bulwark back during DS to reduce the damage I was taking during certain phases of fights.

Personally, I find the second tier of talents useless- but I can also see their benefits outside of pvp.

You have to keep in mind, Blizzard has two types of content to balance around: pvp and pve. That means maybe one glyph won't look good for pve, but it may well be good for pvp. Also, many of those glyphs you are linking are for other specs- not resto.

Though I do wish they would give us cleansing totem back. Monk's revival reminds me of that totem (but with a heal).

As far as HR goes- I use it for phases I know the group is going to be stacked. That's sort of how it's supposed to be used.
Edited by Jujubiju on 6/8/2013 1:07 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
13640
Wow my friend, there's certainly some truth and some misconceptions in your mix! I do like Shaman healing, but you do have to weigh your stats differently upon your healing partners. And being top healer isn't the most important thing - it's having the right healing at the right time. And well, I don't do 25 mans, so I can't comment on their state there.

just some things that stick out to me...

06/07/2013 11:50 PMPosted by Garous
Except Totemic Projection seems laughably underpowered. On paper it seems good, for last expansions totems.


I can't see myself using anything but. Part of that is the range of totems. A lot of the rooms in ToT are much larger than they look, and you can range them. Especially the round rooms (Primordius, Ji-Kun, Durumu) - standing on his backside can range a tank on the front side more than 40 yards. With Spread fights, your Stormlast totem may not hit everyone unless you're the one in the middle.

On Durumu, projecting totems underneath him can really make sure you get full effect of them. Especially on Heroic Durumu, where Grounding Totem can eat dark parasite - but with a 25 yard range, if you don't project or force yourself in the middle and everyone to huddle more, you might miss it. And on Tortos, Drop magma and Capacitor before a stomp and project them into the bats if you're not kiting them.

I mean, getting an extra HST totem is really the only thing I'm doing with the 3 minute cool down talent. Seems less helpful. Maybe Iron Qon where you can refresh Windwalk once or Twins where you can let more people fail mechanics and break them out of sleep with Tremor. But that's typically melee, so you'd need to project the totem into melee anyway.

Target my projected area, Mousewheel up + Click for my projection. It's just so fast and loverly.

---

06/07/2013 11:51 PMPosted by Garous
Primal Elementalist seems okay, and if you look deep into your temporary elemental's action bar you'll see that they can boost healing! Yay! Except they don't do this normally and you have to macro it in order to get the full effect all the time. Bottom line, this final tier doesn't offer a good healing ability.


Rocky does also give you a damage reduction. Flamer's DPS boost isn't that great, but you could use him as a little extra DPS during a bloodlust. And a full minute of increased healing? What other healer can boast that? Also in Dark Animus, where you need to manage your little add, Rocky will taunt it. Then you channel Rocky so he doesn't prematurely kill it, and run around the room healing. It makes us mobile. (Just don't let him taunt other little guys, or you'll need to heal him through it and that is also doable.)

It's a great talent for Resto.

---

06/07/2013 11:51 PMPosted by Garous
Just wanted to take a small aside here and say that Resto Mastery sucks hard. It's only useful in emergency situations where people are already dying, and near full health does just about nothing.


I kinda agree with you there for PvE. For 10 mans, it's generally not the best stat. I guess for 25s though, it can have a larger impact.

---

(By the way, T15 Resto bonus is crap, since the ancestor healing is based on how big the initial heal was, having a small heal spawn the ancestor just makes for a tiny heal that does almost nothing) Spirit is a big thing here for Shamans, as with all other healing classes.


I don't know if I agree with this. In 10 mans, you're a single target healing monster so the thing goes off a lot. It's smart healing so it's more of a stablizer.

And well, spirit is great, but I found myself lowering spirit in 10 mans after I hit a certain amount. For 10 mans it's generally better to go with more haste and use Healing Wave more and throw Lightning Bolts for some mana stablization in movement phases. (My mana bar loves the Durumu Maze with LB on the move!)

I just think in 25 mans a lot of shamans are more concerned with MTT regen than they should. And those that do are not trying to be #1 healer, they're trying to be #1 team player and progress.

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Glyph of Healing Stream Totem - Aren't resistances slowly being removed?


You have to get over this one. So much damage in ToT is nature based, and this is something that nobody else can offer. With the 2 pc, the reduction goes on 2 different people. If you're savvy, you can spread this around really well in a fight like Twin Consorts where the day phase does constant fire damage. Haste it up and spread the joy.

Glyph of Shamanistic Rage - Very Useful


Not a Resto ability.
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90 Troll Shaman
13640
Glyph of Riptide - Why oh why is the healing done being reduced? The HoT alone almost isn't even worth it.


It's not the HoT you should be concerned about. It's keeping Vigor up on your tanks for the extra health. The DK I was healing in my former group kept commenting on how he loved seeing his health bar over 1,000,000 HP. No joke! It really was over that when he popped his health giving cool down.

Glyph of Hex - Very Useful


Only in PvP.

Glyph of Capacitor Totem - Why is this even a spell?


Works on Tortos Bats, Works on Amani'shi Flame Casters (and other minor Horridon adds), Works on some of the nasty trash (like those long range/short range guys)... I don't think you're trying it out enough. But I use projection for this one since there's usually movement or range involved.

Glyph of Chaining - Useful, but Chain Heal is still healing oddly if I understand it correctly.


It's almost a mandatory glyph for 10 mans.

---

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Shamans are in a place that's spectacular when you compare us to the other healers out there. But in 10 man we can certainly hold our own with our healing partner(s). Right now, Enh and Ele are in decent PvE places (especially where Ele is using Chain Lightning), so we can be the best swing healer for any group.

I just don't think it's as sad as you make it. We all know we need better spread mechanics and not be mana batteries. But I just don't think you're seeing the whole Resto picture in terms of mechanics.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9355
I do apologize about the glyphs, I decided against picking just the glyphs I felt were pertinent to Resto and posted all of them. I tried to give useful ratings to glyph which were genuinely useful to the different specs, but some of the glyphs just don't see as useful as they could be.


No need to apologize. Every class has those o.O glyphs, so as long as we have decent, usable ones, I don't see an issue there. Glyph of Riptide does still make me a little sad.

06/08/2013 11:17 AMPosted by Garous
Yes some healers will be better, but what you're suggesting, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Shamans Have to hunker down in a certain heal style (Haste / Spirit / Crit / Mastery) . This doesn't seem fun and I think is a problem. Being able to move around freely and heal different encounters because you can should be what healing is about. It shouldn't be about having a shaman stack spirit up just to use MTT and regen the other healer's mana.


Well, I think our gearing choices should impact our gameplay, but I didn't mean a resto shaman should believe "I stack spirit! I'm a mana battery!" or "I stack mastery! I only heal the raid when it's low!". Our gearing choices are about balancing our stats to match our personal playstyle within the class constraints. All classes have to do this; I just think rshammy choices are more interesting than some other specs.

Having a high skill cap is fine, but when the class is underpowered at high skill, there's a problem. I still happily stand by that if Blizz wants to minimize totem use and make them into CD's, make them move WITH the shaman. Back in the day fights could be handled in a way so healers could stand and cast, but the raid mechanics of today aren't so forgiving.


Like I said, I'm not denying there are issues. I don't know that carrying the CDs around with us would work either, at least with some of the totems we have now being positional. There have been some really well-presented and thoroughly considered ideas presented in some of the "fix shaman" threads here. If you haven't searched for them, I highly recommend the read :) If you have, well, then you know what I'm talking about XD

Cheers.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
11635
As mentioned I went with all glyphs in an attempt to say yes a lot of these are good or okay for the other specs, but here are some that seem weird. (Response to Shaylana)

Totemic Projection can be used that way, but it seems that you miss out on the extra uptime the other two talents offer.

About the Primal Elementalist Talent, it just doesn't seem as useful, given that you already need to be tracking all your other totems, tracking a pet's spell cast seems like additional micro-management. I'm also speaking overall, so just in the one fight against Dark Animus it could be very useful, but in another fight it could be less useful. Given also that shamans are currently underperforming against all the other healer types, that one minute buff almost seems needed.

The T15 I still hold to it that it's less than useful though, mainly because unless you have large natural heals the little ancestor that spawns via the bonus doesn't heal as much. I'm unsure if the sheer volume of them compensates for the reduced heals they give.

I am aware though that for the vast majority of Wow players they do not view averages or WoL / Raidbot, but they are useful tools and personally, Seeing shamans consistently under the bar is what irks me and why I wrote this post.

Also, Shaylana, if possible could you post what addons you use? The normal UI is not very helpful when you have to single target heal every person, and raid wide damage I would assume is the bane of your existence. If not, I'm interested in seeing how you handled this, and if possible to spread it around and help other shamans with spread healing.
Edited by Garous on 6/8/2013 1:35 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Shaman
10585
About the Primal Elementalist Talent, it just doesn't seem as useful


I agree that the tier is very lackluster. Personally I take primal elementalist almost by default. Elemental Blast does no healing and is hard to manage for the buff and Unleashed Fury just feels very underwhelming, especially for a 25m raider. I use UE for healing rain and while I suppose I could use the single target buff as well, I just find the earth ele much more useful. Personally I almost always use FE for damage and my earth elemental is my "unplanned/reserve" CD. When things get really hairy and I don't have ascendance/htt available I often find both the personal damage reduction from the earth ele + the healing buff to be immensely useful. I also find primal elementalist to be a life saver on heroic horridon. My elementals can bridge the entire gap when both bosses are out and punt my dino so far away that I don't have to think about it all. However, all of that being said... the tier sucks. Elemental Blast could easily be changed such that it is beneficial for healers. It could even be used to bridge the spread healing gap in a variety of ways.

06/08/2013 01:03 PMPosted by Shaylana
I can't see myself using anything but. Part of that is the range of totems. A lot of the rooms in ToT are much larger than they look, and you can range them.


I guess I just don't have that problem in 25m. I guess there are times that I have to go out of my way to position MTT but other than that I'm rarely worried about totem range. HST rarely has trouble finding people to heal (unless they are all at full health) and generally speaking the other totems I choose to use are elementals or stone bulwark (Self buff). I guess same can be said of HTT as what I said of HST.

Even back during tier 12- when shaman were in a bad spot- I was still getting invites to FL on this one. Biggest reason I got invites? I adjusted to what was required as far as healing goes.


Well, I'm not exactly in a position where I'm being sat... but if mana regen continues to scale and our throughput isn't brought up... I can definitely see it happening a tier from now. Right now its pretty easy to justify being in the basement on healing meters for the simple fact that I bring multiple raid CDs (that are still effective this tier because boss fights were made pre-DH/tranq/revival buffs) and on most heroic encounters and entire extra mana pool to our healing team. If you can do that and still be even with the prot pally its generally good enough to keep a raid spot. I can assure you though that if this tier was similar to firelands where the hardest fights were 3-4 healed that I'd be riding the pine and rightly so. Because pretty much everything requires at least 5 and we often choose to use 6 its much less of an issue. This does NOT mean though that the spec is fine just because I'm able to continue raiding... and honestly if we didn't keep a relatively thin roster (ie if I was in a TRUE TOP progression guild with a 35 man roster) there are definitely fights (dark animus and primordius) that I'd be sat because my toolkit sucks.

I just don't think it's as sad as you make it. We all know we need better spread mechanics and not be mana batteries. But I just don't think you're seeing the whole Resto picture in terms of mechanics.


TBH 10m shamans are probably in the best shape they've been in years (Which isn't really saying much given how terrible they were for so long) however... the point is that its not like this is a half tier problem that just started. The majority of cataclysm had similar (unheard) concerns. T14 did as well. Whats appalling to me isn't so much that the class is unplayable.... but more that WE'VE HAD THE SAME FRICKIN PROBLEMS FOR YEARS AND NOBODY HAS DONE A THING ABOUT IT. Ok glad I got that out >.>
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
11635
What Nazoikar said is what I'm trying to get at here. CAN you do it? Yes, but is shouldn't be that painful to heal that you're grasping at straws and min / maxxing every fight just be be on par with other healers. I'm unsure of how many Shamans would agree with me, but I liked the Cata model totems. Lots of useful totems that you could pop and they did a variety of things.

Disclaimer though, just adding in more totems would probably be bad, as it would jump up the learning curve, but basic toolkit spells wouldn't be too hard I imagine.
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90 Human Paladin
15480
but I liked the Cata model totems


I hated stat sticks personally. Thought they were silly. Shaman can do well when played right. And when healing counts the most, they are the ones that shine.
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90 Goblin Shaman
10585
06/08/2013 05:04 PMPosted by Taelaus
Shaman can do well when played right.


this can pretty much be said about every healing class and says nothing about the state of our toolkit/mechanics. Point is when you're playing with everyone who is "playing right" shamans have significant toolkit problems and gigantic limitations that nobody else has to deal with.

Let me be extremely clear, I'm not here looking for buffs and to be fotm. I want to be able to do my job and have spells that reflect what other classes have had for years.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
11635
Let me be extremely clear, I'm not here looking for buffs and to be fotm. I want to be able to do my job and have spells that reflect what other classes have had for years.

The second sentence of my very first post in this thread is exactly about this. Shamans don't need a huge HpS bump. I could argue they don't need a bump at all. What I'm saying is that the abilities they have to heal with now do not play well with other healers, and do not work well in a number of raid fights. They are also missing abilities that other healers have, or have inferior abilities that do not work as well as another classes. Shamans would benefit more from getting a new spell than a HpS bump right now. I understand that in 5.4 Shamans are set to receive a new talent? I haven't found specifics on it yet, but it better be a very good talent that changes Resto play style slightly to be more fun. I also would put forwards again my targeted HR glyph. Druids have Swiftmend, which is a HR with a big heal on the front of it for the target. Why can't Shamans cast at people? it'd save a lot of time over manually clicking and dragging all the way out to a spot on the ground.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
06/08/2013 07:57 PMPosted by Garous
I understand that in 5.4 Shamans are set to receive a new talent?

The last thing I heard about it was Ghostcrawler's interview with Icy Veins:
We think it’s a fair concern that Resto doesn’t heal enough when grouped to justify healing relatively less than other healers when not grouped. Furthermore, Resto suffers a little with movement as well, and those two limitations coupled with the paladin / Disc dominance in 10s mentioned above make Resto shaman less attractive in 10-player raids. Totemic Restoration has proven to be a problematic talent, and we’re considering replacing it in 5.4, so that is one area we could introduce something to improve shaman range.


it'd save a lot of time over manually clicking and dragging all the way out to a spot on the ground.

You place your cursor at where you want Healing Rain placed before HR comes off CD. It allows for an almost 100% upkeep of HR.

Even when I place Healing Rain at a new location, it doesn't hardly cost any time to position it and cast. Just need to be quick with the mouse and think ahead.

06/08/2013 07:57 PMPosted by Garous
I haven't found specifics on it yet, but it better be a very good talent that changes Resto play style slightly to be more fun.

Fun is subjective. I love the playstyle as is. I just want more oomph behind my spells, and a few more tools for mobility, spread, etc. situations.
Edited by Nahuul on 6/9/2013 5:16 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
11390
It's only useful in emergency situations where people are already dying, and near full health does just about nothing.


The above part about Resto's Mastery makes me completely ignore anything else you have to say. Shaman mastery is one of the best out there. I mean really, who cares how big your heal is if a person's at 75% health? Why should that matter? Are you trying to top the overheal meters?

No, the only time the size of the heal truly matters is when the target is low on health. And in that Shaman mastery shines.

Just...../boggle
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
06/09/2013 07:37 AMPosted by Adun
It's only useful in emergency situations where people are already dying, and near full health does just about nothing.


The above part about Resto's Mastery makes me completely ignore anything else you have to say. Shaman mastery is one of the best out there. I mean really, who cares how big your heal is if a person's at 75% health? Why should that matter? Are you trying to top the overheal meters?

No, the only time the size of the heal truly matters is when the target is low on health. And in that Shaman mastery shines.

Just...../boggle


Because people being that low on health doesn't happen enough or for a long enough duration for (at least in the 25H raiding environment - not that sure on 10 mans) it to warrant a separate stat. On top of that, if you have 50% mastery, it actually isn't like your healing hits 50% higher than everyone else's healing when someone is at 1% health. The base amount that Shaman spells hit for at 100% HP is actually less than that of other healers because it's balanced around mastery. A theorycrafting estimate that was done on Shaman mastery in MoP is that Shaman are balanced around people being at about 58% HP when you factor in base healing, and the contribution of percentage based masteries like the Paladin, Druid and Holy Priest masteries.

In theory, Deep Healing sounds great. It would be great if they had actually stuck to healing working as a real triage model like they planned at the start of Cata (and which never really panned out past the start of the first tier). The reality of the current healing/damage model is that you want the raid at 100% HP as often as possible, and it needs to be because of the damage output of raid damage in heroic encounters. Deep Healing is trivialized by encounter design, raid damage design, and the class design of other specs to the point that it is a weak stat.

If you want to read more on why, here's an interview with top Resto Shaman, who almost universally agree that our mastery needs to be adjusted/fixed.

http://www.manaflask.com/articles/2222?ref=24
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90 Night Elf Druid
9605
I don't know how you guys honestly put up with playing the class in a 10m environment anymore.

25m I can understand having 1 or 2 in there, but 10m there's very very few places where a shaman is desired over another class.
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