Sad State of Resto Shaman: Mechanics Oriented

90 Pandaren Shaman
9430
Look, why are we arguing about holy priests? This is up to blizzard, and not us to justify. Would appreciate if the back and forth would stop and just get back on track to the topic.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
11510
If they wanted shamans to win at stacked fight it would be by buffing HR, increasing CH cap for 25 man, maybe add another number in 10, increase the healing or cut the decrease by jump to 10 percent or less. Decreasing the cast time wouldn't be bad at all as well.

Make HTT baseline, change Conductivity again and stop making OP spells compete with weak/moderate ones. Talents that is.

And maybe make the increase to raid's health mechanic we have(name is slipping my mind right now) cap a lot faster while stacked.

Just my take.
Edited by Zalathel on 6/29/2013 8:58 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
If they wanted shamans to win at stacked fight it would be by buffing HR, increasing CH cap for 25 man, maybe add another number in 10, increase the healing or cut the decrease by jump to 10 percent or less.

And maybe make the increase to raid's health mechanic we have(name is slipping my mind right now) cap a lot faster while stacked.

Just my take.


If they want Shaman to win at stacked fights, they're gonna have to do something about Mastery. It worked in T11 because people spent so much time below full health due to healers having hardly any mana. It doesn't work anymore, because we have an overabundance of mana (though I feel like a traitor for saying that) in every class other than Holy Priests. We have one, and only one, class/spec limited by mana at the moment, while everyone else can go balls-to-the-wall with their highest HPS spells, with full benefit of their Mastery while Shaman putter along hoping people will dip long enough for their own Mastery to actually kick in.

Not to mention the absolute stupidity of their performance on high movement, high spread fights.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
11510
Spread out mechanics has been an issue for forever lol. It's boring, inefficient and well very lacking. Every other healer has at least something going on for them while spread out healing.

I don't think our mastery is that bad but what can be done about it I have no idea. I think there are easier solutions to tackle and ones that could be fixed much faster. But who knows what Blizzard thinks.

If they fixed spread out healing a lot of shamans would be happy. Nobody is asking to be a king of it I think. Just competent at it like other healers.
Edited by Zalathel on 6/29/2013 9:04 PM PDT
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If they want Shaman to win at stacked fights, they're gonna have to do something about Mastery. It worked in T11 because people spent so much time below full health due to healers having hardly any mana. It doesn't work anymore, because we have an overabundance of mana

Not only that, but T11 did not have the abundance of raid CDs, particularly throughput CDs, that there are now. Tranq did not get buffed to its current version until Firelands, and Holy didn't get Heavenly Voice for DH until DS. Monks didn't exist, so no Revival, while Shaman did not have any throughput CD at all.

Additionally, raid CDs were MUCH more seldom among non-healer specs, with only weak CDs like DPS Tranq/Hymn and Divine Guardian existing (I think Rallying Cry appeared until T12). Now, everyone and their mothers get some raid CD utility due to Blizzard wanting to spread utility like candy so no one feels left out. Now that raids get to do raid CD rotation lists as long as a shopping list, it is very rare to see people dip below 40% health for more than a few seconds. Add to this the (IMHO) unnecessary buff to Tranq/Hymn/Revival, and you get a raid world where our Mastery has lost its value.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
06/29/2013 09:53 PMPosted by Korghal
Not only that, but T11 did not have the abundance of raid CDs, particularly throughput CDs, that there are now. Tranq did not get buffed to its current version until Firelands, and Holy didn't get Heavenly Voice for DH until DS. Monks didn't exist, so no Revival, while Shaman did not have any throughput CD at all.


Yes, although to be fair, Holy Priests weren't exactly "desired," either, during Cata, as they had the most persistent mana problems of all the specs. But Blizzard seemed to do a lot of the "standardizing" of the specs in a rather haphazard fashion, with bits and pieces of it being done here and there. Which ultimately resulted in Druids dominating Firelands, then getting severely nerfed, etc.

Additionally, raid CDs were MUCH more seldom among non-healer specs, with only weak CDs like DPS Tranq/Hymn and Divine Guardian existing (I think Rallying Cry appeared until T12). Now, everyone and their mothers get some raid CD utility due to Blizzard wanting to spread utility like candy so no one feels left out. Now that raids get to do raid CD rotation lists as long as a shopping list, it is very rare to see people dip below 40% health for more than a few seconds. Add to this the (IMHO) unnecessary buff to Tranq/Hymn/Revival, and you get a raid world where our Mastery has lost its value.


Agreed. You really did not take non-healers for their raid CDs in Cata. But even then, I remember the frustration in Firelands as people talked about how the way to get through the massive raid damage was just to have a list of raid CDs from healers. It's actually worse now, imo.
Edited by Tiriel on 6/29/2013 10:34 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Priest
0
By Ghostcrawler's twitter, he implied that they're going to nerf other healers stacked healing abilities.

Q: Would you agree Shaman should be superior than every other healer when stacked to justify poor spread healing?

A: Yes. That is the intent. Just need to rectify that with e.g. SCK.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
11510
I don't see the justification for it and it just seems silly.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
Q: Would you agree Shaman should be superior than every other healer when stacked to justify poor spread healing?

A: Yes. That is the intent. Just need to rectify that with e.g. SCK.

I would say fair enough if there were more stacked fights. Stacked fights are so few and far between that it shouldn't be anyone's niche.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Q: Would you agree Shaman should be superior than every other healer when stacked to justify poor spread healing?

A: Yes. That is the intent. Just need to rectify that with e.g. SCK.

I would say fair enough if there were more stacked fights. Stacked fights are so few and far between that it shouldn't be anyone's niche.


Q: Would you agree Shaman should be superior than every other healer when stacked to justify poor spread healing?

A: Yes. That is the intent. Just need to rectify that with e.g. SCK.

I would say fair enough if there were more stacked fights. Stacked fights are so few and far between that it shouldn't be anyone's niche.


It's a start. If they are going to give us a niche, the absolute least they can do is make sure that we are actually dominant in that niche. Right now, every other healer except maybe Pallies has superior stacked healing. Fixing that will still put us in a better situation than we have been all of T15. It is probably going to be a combination of another HR buff and nerfs to stacked abilities of other healers.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
06/30/2013 06:35 AMPosted by Tiberria
If they are going to give us a niche, the absolute least they can do is make sure that we are actually dominant in that niche.

I just don't see the point in being dominant in a niche if that niche rarely happens. But otherwise, I agree with your post.
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It'd be good if all encounters had their share of stacked and spreading, and movement never or rarely paired with stacking *glares at Ragnaros*.

However, our output on that niche would have to be ridiculously strong to make up for the stacked healing. Even if they nerf stack healing tools such as SCK, Divine Star, Shrooms, etc., those healers would still be able to pump out decent output while stacked just as while spread. To be able to compensate for our poor spread/movement, we'd need a seriously high ammount of stack healing. Otherwise, why bring a Shaman if you can bring a healer that performs decently when stacked and spread?
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
It'd be good if all encounters had their share of stacked and spreading, and movement never or rarely paired with stacking *glares at Ragnaros*.

However, our output on that niche would have to be ridiculously strong to make up for the stacked healing. Even if they nerf stack healing tools such as SCK, Divine Star, Shrooms, etc., those healers would still be able to pump out decent output while stacked just as while spread. To be able to compensate for our poor spread/movement, we'd need a seriously high ammount of stack healing. Otherwise, why bring a Shaman if you can bring a healer that performs decently when stacked and spread?


It's why it was so important that we get confirmation that Shaman are intended to not just be competitive but flat out BEAT every other healing spec when the raid is stacked. If that doesn't happen in 5.4, and even a single healing spec is remotely doing close to or more than our stacked output, we should hammer them to at least hold up their word on that. If we aren't going to get spread healing mechanics adjusted before 6.0 (and it's pretty obvious at this point we probably won't), we can not tolerate being behind on next tier's version of Iron Qon, Megaera, etc.

Also, so far we have only seen 10 man testing and only seen 4 of the 14 bosses. We also haven't seen or have barely seen the entire fight on some of those bosses. Some of the remaining 10 bosses may be stack heavy fights, and some may have stack heavy phases (even possibly some of the bosses we have already seen but haven't really seen those phases). 25 man strategy on some of the fights may also allow us to at least stacked heal the melee group, so it may not be as completely awful as it looks now when we see 25 man testing. As long as we actually are going to be balanced to being the clear #1 stacked healer, I think it should still be workable, at least in 25 man raids.
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90 Troll Shaman
18260
They may fix it but I have a feeling it will be too little, too late as probably a good portion of raiding resto shaman are just going to give up on the class in favor of those that do work mechanically.

I just don't see them giving us another DS as so many hated the fights due to the "just stand there" nature :/
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85 Night Elf Druid
3010
Anyone thinking that other healers are going to be nerfed to help Shaman reach the par of other healers is fooling themselves.

I think the only way to get Blizzard to listen to your concerns is to simply reroll or unsub. A big drop in class population seems to be the only thing that gets their attention.

It worked for Warlocks.
Edited by Talarind on 6/30/2013 9:01 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Anyone thinking that other healers are going to be nerfed to help Shaman reach the par of other healers is fooling themselves.

I think the only way to get Blizzard to listen to your concerns is to simply reroll or unsub. A big drop in class population seems to be the only thing that gets their attention.

It worked for Warlocks.


Except that GC stated last night that it is the design that Shaman beat all other healers when the raid is stacked and that they are working to resolve the fact that this isn't happening, specifically mentioning nerfing SCK. The only way they are going to make Shaman be the top stacked healers is huge buffs to Healing Rain and/or nerfing things like Divine Star, Spirit Shell, Wild Mushrooms, etc.
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I'd like it if they buff something more than just Healing Rain over and over. Chain Heal and ELW are other potential tunning knobs for our spread healing which could be considered first before making HR worth casting on 1 target.

Reducing or removing the jump heal reduction would be a good start, and would give more merit to the Chaining Glyph. ELW could also be buffed to worthwhile levels of healing, or at least increase CH's and HR's chance to proc ELW. Another idea I'd like is for RT to have more synergy with our stacked "niche" beyond being a flag of who you should cast CH on. Having spread in some way to nearby targets would be useful, and a more attractive idea than current Conductivity (although it could also be a potential UF effect instead of the current one).
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85 Night Elf Druid
3010
Anyone thinking that other healers are going to be nerfed to help Shaman reach the par of other healers is fooling themselves.

I think the only way to get Blizzard to listen to your concerns is to simply reroll or unsub. A big drop in class population seems to be the only thing that gets their attention.

It worked for Warlocks.


Except that GC stated last night that it is the design that Shaman beat all other healers when the raid is stacked and that they are working to resolve the fact that this isn't happening, specifically mentioning nerfing SCK. The only way they are going to make Shaman be the top stacked healers is huge buffs to Healing Rain and/or nerfing things like Divine Star, Spirit Shell, Wild Mushrooms, etc.


Honestly, I'll believe it when I see it. Nerfing SCK isn't going to do much, because Monks only use SCK as filler, or to get some extra chi (or if they're fistweaving, to proc muscle memory). Most Monk healing consists of Renewing Mists, Uplift, and Eminence. Monks aren't beating Shaman because of SCK, they're beating Shaman because of their insane amount of smart heals, and they're ridiculously strong Revival CD.

The problem with Shaman is that nearly every spell in their kit has a moderate cast time. Every other healer has very few to no healing spells with cast times. Its very hard to spread heal when you're standing there casting a spell. That's what needs to be addressed, not giving pity nerfs to other classes to make Shaman feel better.
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90 Troll Shaman
9710
So. Over 421 posts so far on this thread(looks like it will cap out soon), another 300 plus on the PTR thread, more on the EU forums, and any number of older threads about the same subject. And yet we don't even have the common courtesy of a single response from a dev, even if it was just to tell us they aren't going to do anything. The IRS has better customer relations than Blizzard as far I'm concerned.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
06/30/2013 09:32 AMPosted by Noeffect
And yet we don't even have the common courtesy of a single response from a dev, even if it was just to tell us they aren't going to do anything.

To be fair, Ghostcrawler tweeted a bit. He doesn't seem to understand what the Shaman community wants, though.
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