Sad State of Resto Shaman: Mechanics Oriented

90 Pandaren Priest
14930
06/30/2013 07:46 AMPosted by Tiberria
It's why it was so important that we get confirmation that Shaman are intended to not just be competitive but flat out BEAT every other healing spec when the raid is stacked. If that doesn't happen in 5.4, and even a single healing spec is remotely doing close to or more than our stacked output, we should hammer them to at least hold up their word on that. If we aren't going to get spread healing mechanics adjusted before 6.0 (and it's pretty obvious at this point we probably won't), we can not tolerate being behind on next tier's version of Iron Qon, Megaera, etc.


I have this funny feeling that when Shaman are just outright sat for the fights where they have to move and people are spread, you won't be okay with that. Just a funny feeling.

Also, so far we have only seen 10 man testing and only seen 4 of the 14 bosses. We also haven't seen or have barely seen the entire fight on some of those bosses. Some of the remaining 10 bosses may be stack heavy fights, and some may have stack heavy phases (even possibly some of the bosses we have already seen but haven't really seen those phases). 25 man strategy on some of the fights may also allow us to at least stacked heal the melee group, so it may not be as completely awful as it looks now when we see 25 man testing. As long as we actually are going to be balanced to being the clear #1 stacked healer, I think it should still be workable, at least in 25 man raids.


Are you actually willing to have another instance where you're really only competitive for 2 bosses out of 12 on normal, and one boss on heroic? Because I really don't think you are.

They can buff your stacked healing to the high heavens, Tiberria. But if you can't compete on spread and movement fights, it won't matter. No one is going to keep a Shaman on their team when the bulk of fights are just better without them.
Edited by Tiriel on 6/30/2013 10:20 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
No one is going to keep a Shaman on their team when the bulk of fights are just better without them.

Exactly. Throughput can be buffed 10 times over, but it will never fix our mechanics issues.

Out of curiosity, how many Shaman are willing to sacrifice some stacked healing for some spread heals?
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
They can buff your stacked healing to the high heavens, Tiberria. But if you can't compete on spread and movement fights, it won't matter. No one is going to keep a Shaman on their team when the bulk of fights are just better without them.


This. So much this. A "stacked healing niche" just isn't acceptable in WoW today. In Vanilla, Burning Crusade, Wrath. Hell, even Cata, sure, maybe you could get away with it. But now? It isn't acceptable.

Paladins aren't tank healers. Druids have burst healing. Etc, etc.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
06/30/2013 10:28 AMPosted by Nahuul
No one is going to keep a Shaman on their team when the bulk of fights are just better without them.

Exactly. Throughput can be buffed 10 times over, but it will never fix our mechanics issues.

Out of curiosity, how many Shaman are willing to sacrifice some stacked healing for some spread heals?


Shaman are so far behind at this point that we should be absolutely unwilling to have anything nerfed or sacrifice anything for spread healing. Why should we even be remotely willing to "sacrifice some stacked healing" when we are already the weakest stacked healer?
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
Shaman are so far behind at this point that we should be absolutely unwilling to have anything nerfed or sacrifice anything for spread healing. Why should we even be remotely willing to "sacrifice some stacked healing" when we are already the weakest stacked healer?

Why? Because we're so far behind that we have little to lose and so much to gain.
Edited by Nahuul on 6/30/2013 10:49 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Priest
0
06/30/2013 10:42 AMPosted by Pebble
A "stacked healing niche" just isn't acceptable in WoW today. In Vanilla, Burning Crusade, Wrath. Hell, even Cata, sure, maybe you could get away with it. But now? It isn't acceptable.


It's too bad that we've all been hammering this message for months and they don't care.

I have a 90 of every healer (except 85 druid), and I have to say, no other healer experiences anywhere near the level of frustration that can be felt while playing a Shaman. That frustration is DIRECTLY tied to realizing that you're tethered to an extremely small area in which you can effectively heal.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
06/30/2013 10:19 AMPosted by Tiriel
It's why it was so important that we get confirmation that Shaman are intended to not just be competitive but flat out BEAT every other healing spec when the raid is stacked. If that doesn't happen in 5.4, and even a single healing spec is remotely doing close to or more than our stacked output, we should hammer them to at least hold up their word on that. If we aren't going to get spread healing mechanics adjusted before 6.0 (and it's pretty obvious at this point we probably won't), we can not tolerate being behind on next tier's version of Iron Qon, Megaera, etc.


I have this funny feeling that when Shaman are just outright sat for the fights where they have to move and people are spread, you won't be okay with that. Just a funny feeling.

Also, so far we have only seen 10 man testing and only seen 4 of the 14 bosses. We also haven't seen or have barely seen the entire fight on some of those bosses. Some of the remaining 10 bosses may be stack heavy fights, and some may have stack heavy phases (even possibly some of the bosses we have already seen but haven't really seen those phases). 25 man strategy on some of the fights may also allow us to at least stacked heal the melee group, so it may not be as completely awful as it looks now when we see 25 man testing. As long as we actually are going to be balanced to being the clear #1 stacked healer, I think it should still be workable, at least in 25 man raids.


Are you actually willing to have another instance where you're really only competitive for 2 bosses out of 12 on normal, and one boss on heroic? Because I really don't think you are.

They can buff your stacked healing to the high heavens, Tiberria. But if you can't compete on spread and movement fights, it won't matter. No one is going to keep a Shaman on their team when the bulk of fights are just better without them.


You can say that, but when you look at 5.2 Resto Shaman, we were still being used across the board for progression fights (with the exception of Dark Animus), even though only 4 of the 13 fights (Council, Megaera, Iron Qon, Ra-Den) could be considered stacked/Shaman favorable fights. The reason is a combination of raid utility (MTT, Stormlash, cooldowns, Ancestral Vigor), and the fact that most fights had portions of them with some stacking (for example, Horridon P2).

Do I think Shaman were in a good place or remotely fun to play in 5.2? Absolutely not, but we were generally viable. After the 20% HR/ELW/CH hotfix buff, our output was relatively low, but was still in an acceptable place from an aggregate throughput perspective. What really broke Shaman was the idiotic decision to buff Tranq/DH/Revival coupled with the complete idiocy of not buffing HTT at the same time. Not only did that put us 10%+ further behind, the excessively buffed cooldowns (coupled with the excessively buffed Wild Mushrooms) resulted in a significant amount of healing that was going to HR, etc, being sniped. If they can buff our stacked healing so that we are the top stacked healers, it should at least reset us to where we were in 5.2 (post hotfix).

It's not a great place, and long term, obviously, the stacked healing niche needs to go and our mechanics need to be reworked. I just think that for 5.4, it's unreasonable to expect that we are going to get that level of mechanical changes. If it was happening, it would have been in the patch changes by now. Unfortunately, it seems that they decided that using all of their healer development time on Druids for the second straight patch was a higher priority than addressing 4 year old Shaman issues. But it is what it is, and putting us back to being at least viable, as we were in 5.2 is probably the best that can be hoped for at this point.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10730
06/30/2013 10:28 AMPosted by Nahuul
No one is going to keep a Shaman on their team when the bulk of fights are just better without them.

Exactly. Throughput can be buffed 10 times over, but it will never fix our mechanics issues.

Out of curiosity, how many Shaman are willing to sacrifice some stacked healing for some spread heals?


I would.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
06/30/2013 10:51 AMPosted by Qùess
A "stacked healing niche" just isn't acceptable in WoW today. In Vanilla, Burning Crusade, Wrath. Hell, even Cata, sure, maybe you could get away with it. But now? It isn't acceptable.


It's too bad that we've all been hammering this message for months and they don't care.

I have a 90 of every healer (except 85 druid), and I have to say, no other healer experiences anywhere near the level of frustration that can be felt while playing a Shaman. That frustration is DIRECTLY tied to realizing that you're tethered to an extremely small area in which you can effectively heal.


Exactly, it's ridiculous.

I have every healer at 90, and healing on every single one of them (including my terrible 470 iLvl priest) is easier and less of a headache than my shaman.
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90 Tauren Priest
0
I have every healer at 90, and healing on every single one of them (including my terrible 470 iLvl priest) is easier and less of a headache than my shaman.


It's sad, because I really genuinely enjoy playing a Shaman. They are cool, their spells, armor, etc...they just don't play well in reality. :/
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
06/30/2013 10:57 AMPosted by Qùess
I have every healer at 90, and healing on every single one of them (including my terrible 470 iLvl priest) is easier and less of a headache than my shaman.


It's sad, because I really genuinely enjoy playing a Shaman. They are cool, their spells, armor, etc...they just don't play well in reality. :/


My feelings exactly.
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90 Pandaren Monk
3160
Nerf SCK? Why?

They need to fix Shaman healing and leave other healers alone.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
SCK is only good for chi anyways.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
06/30/2013 10:28 AMPosted by Nahuul
No one is going to keep a Shaman on their team when the bulk of fights are just better without them.

Exactly. Throughput can be buffed 10 times over, but it will never fix our mechanics issues.

Out of curiosity, how many Shaman are willing to sacrifice some stacked healing for some spread heals?


Me

But we're not currently ahead on stacked anyway. So why would we even need to sacrifice?
Edited by Luvbacon on 6/30/2013 12:28 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Me

But we're not currently ahead on stacked anyway. So why would we even need to sacrifice?


Maybe he means like...sacrificing some of the incoming buffs to stack healing for extra spread healing, if that makes sense?
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90 Pandaren Monk
3160
SCK is only good for chi anyways.


I know, but I don't want our skills nerfed because Resto Shaman suck.
Edited by Shaima on 6/30/2013 12:50 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
I don't think Blizzard should be nerfing any class because shaman suck.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
I don't think Blizzard should be nerfing any class because shaman suck.


What is the alternative? Obviously, Shaman stacked healing is below where it needs to be. The only way to fix that is to buff Shaman or nerf stacked healing abilities of other classes. There is only so much more that HR can be buffed before becoming ridiculous. It already beats everything else we have on 2 targets; if they buff it enough to put us on top for stacked fights (their stated goal) - it will become worth it on single target.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
Buff shaman, clearly. Stacked healing abilities aren't why other classes are OP. Monks and druids outshine shaman by miles due to things like RM and Rejuv alone.

Make shaman more viable outside of stacked situations and your problem is solved.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Buff shaman, clearly. Stacked healing abilities aren't why other classes are OP. Monks and druids outshine shaman by miles due to things like RM and Rejuv alone.

Make shaman more viable outside of stacked situations and your problem is solved.


The problem is they are obstinately sticking to their concept that Shaman must keep the stacked healing niche (including multiple tweets last night), but that we should be the #1 healer in that niche. I don't think spread healing fixes are coming this expansion.
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