Sad State of Resto Shaman: Mechanics Oriented

90 Tauren Priest
0
I don't care if we take a nerf for the sake of balance for Shamans, but I disagree that it's the right thing to do. Tiberria...you seem now to be attached to the idea of being the best stacked healer since GC clarified their intent. I wouldn't rally in agreement with GC on this matter and allow yourself to be pacified by it.

I do agree that buffing HR more will cause serious balance issues, but that's not the only thing they can buff. They can stop being delusional about chain heal, they can retune or change mastery entirely (they did it for Windwalkers mid expac, why not resto shamans?). I would not settle for being the best stacked healer, that's a meaningless victory.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10730
06/30/2013 01:35 PMPosted by Qùess
(they did it for Windwalkers mid expac, why not resto shamans?).

The reason is, they actually care about monks...
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
Maybe he means like...sacrificing some of the incoming buffs to stack healing for extra spread healing, if that makes sense?

Wrong.

Most of our throughput and utility comes from stacked situations. Why not give some of that up, loosen the shackles of the stacking niche (which very few people actually seem to want), and get some new spread healing tools?
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
06/30/2013 03:14 PMPosted by Nahuul
Maybe he means like...sacrificing some of the incoming buffs to stack healing for extra spread healing, if that makes sense?

Wrong.

Most of our throughput and utility comes from stacked situations. Why not give some of that up, loosen the shackles of the stacking niche (which very few people actually seem to want), and get some new spread healing tools?


Considering that we are currently mediocre to bad even in stack situations, we should not have to give anything up for spread healing buffs. All that would do is make us terrible at everything, and being mediocre across the board is a far worse position than being strong at a specialized niche.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
Considering that we are currently mediocre to bad even in stack situations, we should not have to give anything up for spread healing buffs. All that would do is make us terrible at everything, and being mediocre across the board is a far worse position than being strong at a specialized niche.

Like I said earlier, we don't have much to lose. And being strong at a specialized niche won't fix our spec's mechanic issues (spread and mobility, primarily).
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90 Pandaren Monk
13265
I don't care if we take a nerf for the sake of balance for Shamans, but I disagree that it's the right thing to do. Tiberria...you seem now to be attached to the idea of being the best stacked healer since GC clarified their intent. I wouldn't rally in agreement with GC on this matter and allow yourself to be pacified by it.

I do agree that buffing HR more will cause serious balance issues, but that's not the only thing they can buff. They can stop being delusional about chain heal, they can retune or change mastery entirely (they did it for Windwalkers mid expac, why not resto shamans?). I would not settle for being the best stacked healer, that's a meaningless victory.


It's not a matter of what Blizzard can do, it's a matter of what they are actually willing to do, especially mid expansion. If Blizzard wanted to, they could have scrapped their terrible Glyph selection, revamped the horribly imbalanced Mastery, give totems a comprehensive overhaul, and maybe even give the class a Blue post to address questions more than 2-3 times an expansion. But have that done any of that? Absolutely not. Will they? Not a snowball's chance before the next Beta at the earliest, considering most of what I (and you!) just mentioned are problems from last expansion, before even considering specific issues native to MoP, mostly involving useless/imbalanced talent choices.

I don't think there's a Shaman around who doesn't want actual spread healing and movement options and then maybe some mild stacking buffs so they are just "mediocre at spread healing/movement and fantastic at stacked healing" rather than "terrible spread healing and movement, mediocre stacking" of today. Now Shaman are apparently going to get "terrible at spread healing, overpowered at stacked healing, especially when you see what Blizzard does to the other classes". Do not doubt the power of Shaman to drag people down with them a la Dragon Soul (I'm only being somewhat sarcastic). Resto Shaman at this point are so terribly desperate for a justifiable time to shine, a raid spot worth mentioning, even some acknowledgement by Blizzard that they are willing to play along with this twisted semblance of what Blizzard calls a good idea. I mean, what else do you expect them to do that they aren't already doing to get better changes? They have so many damn threads, suggestions, and concerns laced throughout these forums and elsewhere that it's depressing to watch (especially with the amount of "L2P", trolling, and general ignorance by drive by-posters within every single one of them).

This is also why people should be more supportive of class balance in general. Now that Blizzard is turning their eye to other classes and contemplating nerfing them for Shaman's sake, maybe they'll get some additional support now. Unlike Dragon Soul, those effects could last far longer than one tier.
Edited by Thaimaishu on 6/30/2013 4:01 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
06/30/2013 10:46 AMPosted by Nahuul
Shaman are so far behind at this point that we should be absolutely unwilling to have anything nerfed or sacrifice anything for spread healing. Why should we even be remotely willing to "sacrifice some stacked healing" when we are already the weakest stacked healer?

Why? Because we're so far behind that we have little to lose and so much to gain.

Little to lose? You Realize were one of the worst stack healers... You wanna nerf us more at stack healing if theres a upcoming fight with heavy stacked damage? We need Buffs on stacked healing AND Spread healing, Were 20k - 30k Hps behind other healers on some fights.
Edited by Thráll on 6/30/2013 3:48 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
06/30/2013 03:47 PMPosted by Thráll
You Realize were one of the worst stack healers...

Exactly, hence "little to lose."

06/30/2013 03:47 PMPosted by Thráll
You wanna nerf us more at stack healing if theres a upcoming fight with heavy stacked damage?

From what we've seen of SoO so far, heavy stacked damage is only in one (maybe two) encounters.

We need Buffs on stacked healing AND Spread healing, Were 20k - 30k Hps behind other healers on some fights.

Agreed.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
06/30/2013 03:50 PMPosted by Nahuul
You Realize were one of the worst stack healers...

Exactly, hence "little to lose."

You wanna nerf us more at stack healing if theres a upcoming fight with heavy stacked damage?

From what we've seen of SoO so far, heavy stacked damage is only in one (maybe two) encounters.

We need Buffs on stacked healing AND Spread healing, Were 20k - 30k Hps behind other healers on some fights.

Agreed.


Suggesting that we should have our stacked healing nerfed when it is only 5th or 6th best among healing specs to begin with is idiocy. We also need to be careful about SoO because
(1) We have only seen 4 of 14 fights
(2) We haven't seen all phases of those fights - many fights this expansion have had stacked phases in later parts of the fight
(3) We haven't seen 25 man raid testing yet, and stacked healing has always been more effective in 25 man

Unless you really think they will bring our spread healing up to the level of other healers, all nerfing our stacked healing to add more spread healing will do is ensure that we are inferior to every other healer at every conceivable task. Therefore, I am absolutely 100% against accepting stacked healing nerfs or having anything taken away from our current toolkit to adjust spread healing.
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90 Draenei Shaman
14320
A few simple things they could do would be to remove the cast time on Healing Rain and Chain Heal. Keep HR as it is, keep the 10s cooldown, but let the cast itself be instant. Let Chain Heal be instant cast, but have a 4-5s cooldown. Or even a CD similar to CoH or WG.

The common link in almost all of these shaman threads is the lack of an instant cast AoE, which every other class has. So GC is worried about shaman spamming CH? Put a damn CD on it. HPriests (wherever they might exist) spam CoH on CD, Druids usually hit WG on CD....see the pattern here?

Riptide, yeah, the glyph is horrible. But unglyphed isnt exactly all that great either, why not just get rid of the glyph and make a hybridized version of riptide? Maybe something like a 2-3s CD with a reduced initial heal, but with a more powerful hot? Unglyphed its basically rolling on tanks and that's it. Glyphed its almost all overhealing as it's so slow, the person is healed to full by the 2nd or 3rd tick.

I seriously agree with HTT needing to be baseline to Resto, at least make it baseline to all but reduced power for Ele and Enh. At this rate, raid leaders are just going to take an ele or enh shaman for the HTT CD and tell the Resto's to bugger off.

At least I can have the illusion of being an awesome healer thanks to the scrubs in LFR before I realize that raiding is a fast closing door for resto shaman.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
Therefore, I am absolutely 100% against accepting stacked healing nerfs or having anything taken away from our current toolkit to adjust spread healing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem primarily focused on 5.4. I'm more worried about 6.0 and beyond.

Now, if we're talking only about 5.4, then no, we shouldn't accept any stacked nerfs at all. If we're talking about 6.0 and beyond (by that time, our stacked healing should be buffed), I'd be willing to trade some of that throughput for spread mechanics.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
06/30/2013 04:08 PMPosted by Nahuul
Therefore, I am absolutely 100% against accepting stacked healing nerfs or having anything taken away from our current toolkit to adjust spread healing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem primarily focused on 5.4. I'm more worried about 6.0 and beyond.

Now, if we're talking only about 5.4, then no, we shouldn't accept any stacked nerfs at all. If we're talking about 6.0 and beyond (by that time, our stacked healing should be buffed), I'd be willing to trade some of that throughput for spread mechanics.


5.4 is the immediate concern; we need to be viable for the next tier of progression. I think we have to wait until we are in the Beta cycle before thinking too far ahead to the next expansion.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
5.4 is the immediate concern; we need to be viable for the next tier of progression. I think we have to wait until we are in the Beta cycle before thinking too far ahead to the next expansion.

Alright, glad we cleared that up. :)
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
I'd just like to point out: Even when we're all in agreement that shaman is broke and needs a fix, we still fight Tiberria tooth and nail.
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90 Pandaren Monk
3160
Just dump the stupid niche and change it to something else. Clearly stack healing doesn't work.

Don't know what you'd change it to, but I'm sure they can think of something,
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
https://www.change.org/petitions/blizzard-entertainment-give-restoration-shaman-spread-movement-healing-tools-to-be-competitive

Would appreciate your signature.
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90 Orc Shaman
17950
https://www.change.org/petitions/blizzard-entertainment-give-restoration-shaman-spread-movement-healing-tools-to-be-competitive

Would appreciate your signature.


Lol...
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
https://www.change.org/petitions/blizzard-entertainment-give-restoration-shaman-spread-movement-healing-tools-to-be-competitive

Would appreciate your signature.


Lol...


:D Why not?
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
https://www.change.org/petitions/blizzard-entertainment-give-restoration-shaman-spread-movement-healing-tools-to-be-competitive

Would appreciate your signature.


I love you.
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90 Orc Shaman
17950


Lol...


:D Why not?


I'll admit I am tempted.
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