Sad State of Resto Shaman: Mechanics Oriented

22 Gnome Warrior
80
I am loving the Riptide changes. It will be interesting to run the numbers to see how it compares with chain heal.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
6925
I am loving the Riptide changes. It will be interesting to run the numbers to see how it compares with chain heal.


Loving the riptide changes? The one where riptide is 4% base mana cheaper or the glyph change that will increase its healing by 3-4k? Both are incredibly minor, so either you haven't thought this through fully, or you are a smart person with an agenda. Which is it?
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22 Gnome Warrior
80
06/12/2013 10:37 AMPosted by Billywd
Loving the riptide changes? The one where riptide is 4% base mana cheaper or the glyph change that will increase its healing by 3-4k?


Direct Heal and HoT part of Riptide are affected by Mastery. Also, both can crit. The DH change would average about +10K healing on someone at 50% health.

Ancestral Awakening will add a little more to the DH on crits.

But there is more. If you now have a reason to use Riptide Glyph, you will use RT more often for spread healing. The DH AND HoT can both trigger Earthliving adding substantially to the healing "indirectly" done by RT.

The mana savings comes to about 2400 mana per cast if I did the math correctly. If you are spamming the spell, that is not an insignificant savings.

Spread RTs means more targets for Chain Heal with bonus healing.

The change has real potential.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12320
Alright, reading through the PTR 5.4 patch notes is kinda disheartening for Shamans...

Druids Mushroom spell is being rolled into one mushroom, so the GCD isn't even bad anymore, just point and Boom. Ysera's Gift, seems a tad OP there Blizz, pushes the druid up to max health then starts healing anyone nearby whose low on health. Talent, but a good one. Genesis, as mentioned by Nahuul above, is stupidly OP. Shamans should have a spell like this for pushing more healing out if needed. If Shamans were under the curve before they're well below now, but let's hold out hope shall we? Until we get to Shamans...

Monks, nothing new, class has been performing rather well anyway, so not really a need to buff them.

Paladins, also nothing ground breaking here, they were pretty good before as well.

Priests, oh boy... Divine Insight, the ability that lets Priests cast as many absorbs as they want, is now bumping to 100%, meaning that absorb effects can be rolling with almost a 100% uptime. Twist of Faith, another talent, is also getting bumped up 15% for more uptime as well. Twist of Faith, for the unknowing, is a flat 20% healing / damage increase when the priest heals or damages targets below 20%, now 35%. This is not a one time use thing like Shaman Mastery, this is a buff that continues to roll helping the priest with stronger heals.

Shamans, thankfully they gave us some little bones. Nothing great at all though. Given that Shamans generally have Spirit to spare, the reduced mana cost is only useful to some Shamans. Will accept it's a good change, but not enough. Looks like in addition to mandatory Resto Talents for Shamans, we have a mandatory glyph for spread healing! While bumping the CH effect up to 100% range this should have been done long before to help with spread healing. Shaman spells are now more usable, that is at least good. But there's still the Mechanics problem, and a band aid fix won't cut it.

All in all, Druids are going upwards, leaving a larger gap between Shamans and the rest of the healers. Why Druids even need new healing spells and talents I'm not sure, but it'd be really nice if some were dropped over here on Shamans! Between the two new abilities Druids are getting, either one modded for shamans would be an immense help. Ysera's Gift currently says it's instant, and given it's got a time component, is probably a buff. Meaning druids can slap this one and begin healing everyone around them like a HST or a HTT that is mobile. What. The. Hell. Druids are already extremely mobile, they don't need more mobility, between their mushroom buff, genesis, and this new spell they won't even need to stop moving. This is just beyond ridiculous.

Thoughts?

EDIT:: Prattle, you bring up some good points, and while it will help, it just doesn't seem like enough of a help.
Edited by Garous on 6/12/2013 2:27 PM PDT
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85 Gnome Priest
6840
Meh, the RT glyph still seems too weak to me. The initial heal is really the best part of the spell, because my HoT portion usually goes more to overheal. The CH glyph looks pretty nice, though.

I'm still wondering what Blizz has cooking for our totem talent tier change (GC mentioned they are looking to do something with the level 45 talent tier that may address our spread healing issues in 5.4). I dunno, maybe they changed their mind.

e: Yeah, Druids got some crazy !@#$. I'm stoked for our R Druid, lol. Honestly, I don't see all these changes going live. Blizz has a habit of overbuffing things early in the PTR, and then scaling back later.
Edited by Eldudearino on 6/12/2013 2:04 PM PDT
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100 Draenei Shaman
6410
I, for one, welcome our new Druid overlords.

The 5.4 Shaman changes are either incomplete, or they are a bad joke. Or both. Utter garbage compared to the scope of the problem.
Edited by Rheeah on 6/12/2013 2:11 PM PDT
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22 Gnome Warrior
80
06/12/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Eldudearino
The initial heal is really the best part of the spell, because my HoT portion usually goes more to overheal.


Instant cast direct heals are great. I think this is why Blizz has to be careful about the RT Glyph which takes RT off the GCD. People should try it and provide useable feedback. Not just QQ it sucks or pander for buffs.

HoT and Overheal can frequently be a problem. People tend to think if it is not a spell they can efficiently use constantly, then it sucks. But if heavy raid wide damage hits, healing raid is ticking and our other AoEs are on CD, then targeting RT onto people with heavy damage drastically reduces the overheal issue.

Leave topping off to Disc Priests and Atonement. A stronger, spammable RT plays into the shaman emergency healer "niche" so to speak.
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100 Goblin Shaman
18890
Neither the RT glyph change, nor the mana cost reduction addresses the big issue with the spell - the HoT component is incredibly weak and slow. THAT is what needs to be changed. As it stands I only use the spell for 3 reasons.

1) direct component part
2) tidal waves
3) chain heal bonus

Please go back and tell me how "useful" this glyph would be on heroic WotE. In case you don't know, in 10 man heroic this was considered be the "ideal" fight for the glyph - not much stacking, tons of spread out / mobile people, and constant ticking damage.

We didn't have mana concerns there hot'ing the raid up if using the glyph so that change doesn't do anything now. And adding a paltry 15% of the direct component wouldn't have made a substantial difference. The HoT component is just that poor.

I tried the glyph then and even when putting it nearly on all 10 people for the whole fight, it was incredibly weak. I never use HPS meters etc, BUT H WotE is an fight where it is COMPLETELY appropriate. Look up the encounter if you have not and you will see what I mean.

Just fyi, rolling 10 riptides in then appropriate gear + weaving in GHWs on the tanks etc, I barely could break 30,000-35,000 HPS, if that. Adding an additional 15% to the direct component doesn't solve this issue.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Taking the instant cast from 10% to 25% of the normal value is not going to make any difference in whether Riptide is worth glyphing. We are talking about a ~3000 increase. If you glyph it and burn a lot of mana spaming Riptides, it has to be because the HoT portion of the spell is effective. There is no way it is viable to glyph it for the purpose of spamming the ~6k instant cast portion.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8490
I'm still wondering what Blizz has cooking for our totem talent tier change (GC mentioned they are looking to do something with the level 45 talent tier that may address our spread healing issues in 5.4). I dunno, maybe they changed their mind.


If you believe this inept team can make changes that they haven't been able to make in 2 years, you have another thing coming. Even if they do make changes, they will probably be !@#$ty. Everything has been a band aid and more band aids, and even more band aids. What makes you think we will start now? (cause of pvp)

All the cool toys are going to monks and they have shown that they do not care about us now looking at the changes of the last few patches. If I dont see some sort of new skill or changes that MAJORLY impact our weakness of spread healing I am done.

and to the people who say the new changes of riptide and chainheal combo is the fix for that, oh please, if I wanted to rip tide the whole raid and wanted to cast chain heal, I might as well go druid and do all that with 1 button.

I for one am trying to jump the proverbial resto shaman ship as soon as my guild allows me to. cause our only saving grace is cooldowns and increasing everybody's health.
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100 Goblin Shaman
18890
I'm actually hoping totemic restoration remains untouched. It still has a few uses on fights, just not as much in this tier.

I guess as long as they don't replace it with something similar to EB (i.e. a talent completely useless for resto spec), I guess I would be open to some change there. But that one personally doesn't bother me much.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
We are approaching spread situations with the wrong mindset.

Within the raid, the ranged group tends to be more spread out, while the melee group tends to be more stacked. The melee group tends to get caught in AoE heals, thanks to their proximity to the tanks, and as such, will tend to have higher health than the ranged group.

Pretend the raid's health is a pool of water. You can push water and create a wave. You can do the same with the raid's health via Spirit Link Totem and Totemic Projection. You need to use Spirit Link Totem and Totemic Projection to push health from the melee group to the ranged group, and then start using your stacked heals (Healing Rain, etc.) on the melee group.

Why? Two reasons.
(1) We still have strong stacked healing.
(2) Because the stacked group all of a sudden has less health, it makes our Mastery stronger.

This approach makes spread healing much more bearable, as well as takes advantages of our two biggest strengths.

As a side note, has Blizzard said anything about how they judge the performance of healers internally?
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12320
Nahuul, I don't know how to think of this, it refutes the idea of "Fill the green bars". Instead of filling bars you're actively moving health around a raid. I love the way you're thinking of this. If that's true then Mastery is still pretty strong, because you can Make it strong. It plays off your strengths very well. It also makes you the only healer class that actually manipulates health up and down. Arguably the coolest thing ever.

Also I don't know how they rate internally, I don't think anyone knows really. It can't be by HpS, because it's not representative of their utility side.

Excellent post, very impressed with your train of thought Nahuul.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
The thing is, you need to be between the stacked and spread groups, and you need to be the middleman (pun intended) to shift health from one group to the other.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
This approach makes spread healing much more bearable, as well as takes advantages of our two biggest strengths.


That's all well and good, but SLT has a 10 yard radius and a 6sec duration. You can only "push health around like a wave" if you have those melee and ranged players stacked and stationary for those 6 seconds.

Totemic Projection does not allow you to get around the situation of players being stacked to manipulate their health bars. SLT will still only balance the health of the players inside its 10 yard radius. There is no "take health from the healthier melee group and give it to the spread out ranged players who don't get the same benefit from the healers' AoE heals" ... not unless everyone is all stacked to begin with, at which point the ranged players are receiving the same AoE heals the melee are.

idk, maybe you're talking about a SLT re-design? It's not an "approach" we can use today, however.
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90 Tauren Shaman
8940
06/12/2013 05:34 PMPosted by Ellarix
Totemic Projection does not allow you to get around the situation of players being stacked to manipulate their health bars.

Yes, it does, by creating a stacked situation in the melee group.

06/12/2013 05:34 PMPosted by Ellarix
SLT will still only balance the health of the players inside its 10 yard radius.

That's why you're projecting it. You move it just enough, possibly using yourself as a focal point, to push health to the other group. Some members of the intended group will not and cannot be hit by that push unless SLT has its range increased

You can only "push health around like a wave" if you have those melee and ranged players stacked and stationary for those 6 seconds.

Only the melee group needs to stationary - as long as the other group isn't running around like chickens, they can move slightly and still get hit. The melee group acts as one focal point (with you, arguably, as a second), the ranged group can rotate around that melee group as much as they need to, as long as, again, they don't run around all crazy-like.

I feel like we're not fully understanding each other. Would you like me to draw a diagram to better illustrate what I'm saying? Maybe my wording isn't as precise as it should be. What do you think would help us communicate better?
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22 Gnome Warrior
80
We are talking about a ~3000 increase


If you heal a target at 100% health, you have zero crit rating and forget to put earthliving on your weapon.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
With SLT as it stands, that's...

I find it difficult to imagine situations which can be manipulated like that show up on any kind of useful basis. The precision of timing necessary to pull it off - including proper raid co-ordination, activation of Projection mid-SLT duration (6 sec total), and new placement of SLT...

10 yard radius is *very* confining for players who have to be at all spread (as you were talking about in your ranged situation), never mind if they also have to be moving... and then somehow timing being in the right location for the 2 or 3 seconds you manage to have SLT active in "their" SLT area... and then for most mechanics where the ranged *could* actually congregate and stack, say, on a raid marker... they can stack on melee to begin with, eliminating the considerable margin for error in the hands of not only the resto shaman but the other players involved as well, inherent in the idea of trying to somehow move health around by SLT relocation.

Now again; if you're talking about hypothetical "maybe the devs can re-work SLT in some way that would make this idea work" then by all means, brainstorm away.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
06/12/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Garous
Priests, oh boy... Divine Insight, the ability that lets Priests cast as many absorbs as they want, is now bumping to 100%, meaning that absorb effects can be rolling with almost a 100% uptime. Twist of Faith, another talent, is also getting bumped up 15% for more uptime as well. Twist of Faith, for the unknowing, is a flat 20% healing / damage increase when the priest heals or damages targets below 20%, now 35%. This is not a one time use thing like Shaman Mastery, this is a buff that continues to roll helping the priest with stronger heals.


I feel like you actually don't understand what any of those talents do. At all.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
With SLT as it stands, that's...

I find it difficult to imagine situations which can be manipulated like that show up on any kind of useful basis. The precision of timing necessary to pull it off - including proper raid co-ordination, activation of Projection mid-SLT duration (6 sec total), and new placement of SLT...

10 yard radius is *very* confining for players who have to be at all spread (as you were talking about in your ranged situation), never mind if they also have to be moving... and then somehow timing being in the right location for the 2 or 3 seconds you manage to have SLT active in "their" SLT area... and then for most mechanics where the ranged *could* actually congregate and stack, say, on a raid marker... they can stack on melee to begin with, eliminating the considerable margin for error in the hands of not only the resto shaman but the other players involved as well, inherent in the idea of trying to somehow move health around by SLT relocation.

Now again; if you're talking about hypothetical "maybe the devs can re-work SLT in some way that would make this idea work" then by all means, brainstorm away.


SLT is and has always been a weak raid cooldown unless there is a fight where the health redistribution mechanic is game breaking (i.e. Spine). It almost requires Totemic Projection to be able to use it correctly on a lot of fights. The amount of damage it reduces is 1/4 of the damage that PW:Barrier reduces, and both have the same range/stacking requirement. The amount of damage it reduces is 1/2 of the amount of damage Devo Aura reduces (assuming magic damage, which almost all AoE raid damage is), and Devo Aura doesn't have a restrictive positioning requirement.

SLT is just an inferior raid cooldown for almost all practical purposes. At this point, I think they should get rid of the damage redistribution mechanic. It's either game-breakingly OP (Spine), or is nearly completely inconsequential. I would rather get rid of it and then buff the damage reduction/duration/range requirements (probably buff 2 of the 3) to make it a competitive CD.
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