Sad State of Resto Shaman: Mechanics Oriented

90 Human Paladin
15480
Well, TP has a 10sec cooldown, so if you activate it to place SLT, you can't activate it again during SLT's 6sec window. I'm unsure that's what you were indicating should be done, but your specification "double-click macro" made me think you were trying to get two uses out of TP in the duration of SLT?


No macro can do one of two thing depending what you are looking to do.

The one above would let you project the totem into the melee pile. One time use.

If you flip it, you can drop SLT where you are standing then project it 3 sec later to split the use in two areas.

/cast SLT
/cast TP

edit: i used the first one for H Grand Emp progression last tier. Was pretty handy. Running into melee pile to drop it could have had bad results.
Edited by Taelaus on 6/13/2013 9:10 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
12770
gotcha :)
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Shaman
8445
Actually, in response to Linnelle, I whispered the people advertising just out of curiousity. The general response was that no, they didn't have an int using shammie, but just weren't interested in having one in the raid. Mal'Ganis is a very progression oriented server, and large portion of the player base is aware of the relative strengths and weaknesses of most classes at a given time(probably also has something to do with the severe altoholism of a lot of people on the server). Either way, almost any of my other healers have an easier time finding groups for ToT than this toon.


And this is the point in which you prove them wrong. I've only ever had to do that once in LK- back when gearscore was the thing.

What you tell them is this:

"Okay here's a challenge for you, if we wipe and I am not the last healer standing, then you can boot me."

Last time I did something similar, no one ever questioned me or my abilities again.

Sometimes people need to be reminded that it's not always the class or what WOL's says. Basically, beggars can't be choosers.
Edited by Jujubiju on 6/13/2013 11:15 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
14360
my totemic projection is bound to mousewheel up. it feels like I fling the totems to their spots. And it is way fast to use.

I am surprised nobody mentioned the 10% dam reduction on SLT. if nothing else, that's useful even if you cannot maximize the people.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
14360

SLT is just an inferior raid cooldown for almost all practical purposes. At this point, I think they should get rid of the damage redistribution mechanic. It's either game-breakingly OP (Spine), or is nearly completely inconsequential. I would rather get rid of it and then buff the damage reduction/duration/range requirements (probably buff 2 of the 3) to make it a competitive CD.


I disagree. part of the beauty of SLT is turning your healing into effective healing. It's hard to overheal a group when the health gets redistributed. Otherwise, there's always potential to overheal. It's best used with another raid cool down, either yours like Ascendance or another person's in the raid.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
18930

SLT is just an inferior raid cooldown for almost all practical purposes. At this point, I think they should get rid of the damage redistribution mechanic. It's either game-breakingly OP (Spine), or is nearly completely inconsequential. I would rather get rid of it and then buff the damage reduction/duration/range requirements (probably buff 2 of the 3) to make it a competitive CD.


I disagree. part of the beauty of SLT is turning your healing into effective healing. It's hard to overheal a group when the health gets redistributed. Otherwise, there's always potential to overheal. It's best used with another raid cool down, either yours like Ascendance or another person's in the raid.


Except that about 90% of the type of damaging raid wide abilities that you would use SLT for hit everyone in the raid for a set amount of damage, meaning people are not topped off in the first place. People over value SLT, because the damage redistribution effect is very noticeable on raid frames, but the reality is, that effect is far more style than actual substantive value the vast majority of the time. The 10% damage reduction effect is the actual part of SLT that has real value.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
You know, Tiberria, I haven't heard one single positive thing from you about your class. You seem to seriously dislike it, to the extent that you argue this much it's just beating a dead horse. Why don't you play something you actually like instead?
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
18930
You know, Tiberria, I haven't heard one single positive thing from you about your class. You seem to seriously dislike it, to the extent that you argue this much it's just beating a dead horse. Why don't you play something you actually like instead?


And, I haven't seen a single constructive statement from you in a Shaman thread that isn't some form of trolling, ego stroking or trying to belittle peoples arguments without offering anything substantive of your own. Why do you even bother posting in these threads if you clearly have nothing constructive to say?
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
06/13/2013 03:12 PMPosted by Tiberria
You know, Tiberria, I haven't heard one single positive thing from you about your class. You seem to seriously dislike it, to the extent that you argue this much it's just beating a dead horse. Why don't you play something you actually like instead?


And, I haven't seen a single constructive statement from you in a Shaman thread that isn't some form of trolling, ego stroking or trying to belittle peoples arguments without offering anything substantive of your own. Why do you even bother posting in these threads if you clearly have nothing constructive to say?

Yesyes, I'm a troll etcetc. My question to you above wasn't though, it was a legitimate one to which I'm actually curious.

But I'll answer yours- I don't usually take someone seriously when they cry wolf multiple times.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
18930
06/13/2013 03:26 PMPosted by Fleurs


And, I haven't seen a single constructive statement from you in a Shaman thread that isn't some form of trolling, ego stroking or trying to belittle peoples arguments without offering anything substantive of your own. Why do you even bother posting in these threads if you clearly have nothing constructive to say?

Yesyes, I'm a troll etcetc. My question to you above wasn't though, it was a legitimate one to which I'm actually curious.

But I'll answer yours- I don't usually take someone seriously when they cry wolf multiple times.


The answer is - it's something I have considered - especially for 5.4. The reality is, the entry barrier on main switching this expansion (unless you have kept a fully progressed alt that you want to play maintained the whole expansion) is too high to make it reasonable. The legendary progress, gear curve, raid comp considerations, etc make it so switching now would be worse than just sticking it out and hoping for the best.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Monk
13535
I'm really beginning to love shaman threads.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Death Knight
11635
Fleurs, perhaps take into consideration that the topic being posted about is still a problem. In which case it would be odd not to see the same people complaining about the same problem multiple times. Unless I got some luxury complain as much as I want ticket, everyone else can complain multiple times too.

To go back and track, here is a proposed list of changes so far I think would be a good idea to add to the Shaman class.

    Cleansing Totem replaced, same usability, perhaps mod it slightly to work more like an instant similar to Mass Dispel; perhaps even make it just a magic clearing totem?

    Buff Spirit Link Totem for a wider range, Not a huge range, perhaps just to 15 yard radius or 20 yard radius

    Controversial:: Change Mastery to be slightly weaker, but provide a static Buff to healing at all times

    Add in a Life Shock spell that is instant to help with mobility; or some other similar instant ability that is castable on the move.

    Alternately, instead of a Life Shock, modify one of the Shaman spells, so that when it is cast it stacks upwards, decreasing the cast time on another Shaman Spell, perhaps make it 4 casts of Healing Surge nets you a instant Greater Healing Wave


All of these changes I would suggest be made for Resto spec ONLY, that way other specs are not affected. Also saying that it would buff Shamans too much for PvP is silly. Resto Shamans are under right now for PvP and adding in these changes won't help over much.

If anyone can think of other things to add, please post with replies!
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
06/13/2013 05:05 PMPosted by Garous
Fleurs, perhaps take into consideration that the topic being posted about is still a problem. In which case it would be odd not to see the same people complaining about the same problem multiple times. Unless I got some luxury complain as much as I want ticket, everyone else can complain multiple times too.

I think you would better understand me if you knew more about Tiberria's history and his paladin days.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
9775
Fleurs, perhaps take into consideration that the topic being posted about is still a problem. In which case it would be odd not to see the same people complaining about the same problem multiple times. Unless I got some luxury complain as much as I want ticket, everyone else can complain multiple times too.

I think you would better understand me if you knew more about Tiberria's history and his paladin days.


True, but that doesn't diminish the fact that shaman have a real problem with their toolkit though, which aren't really addressed by the current changes in the PTR.
Edited by Fewì on 6/13/2013 6:42 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
06/13/2013 06:39 PMPosted by Fewì

I think you would better understand me if you knew more about Tiberria's history and his paladin days.


True, but that doesn't diminish the fact that shaman have a real problem with their toolkit though, which aren't really addressed by the current changes in the PTR.

No one's diminishing shaman's problems.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
13265

No one's diminishing shaman's problems.


It certainly seems like it sometimes. Not to point at any particular poster, but there is a heck of a lot of hypocrisy, belittling, and objectively fallacious statements being thrown around by who/whatever being propped up as counterarguments to this data.

06/13/2013 06:39 PMPosted by Fewì

I think you would better understand me if you knew more about Tiberria's history and his paladin days.


True, but that doesn't diminish the fact that shaman have a real problem with their toolkit though, which aren't really addressed by the current changes in the PTR.


It's kind of iffy right now. On the one hand, we *know* for a fact that more changes to address some Shaman concerns are coming. On the other hand, we have no idea how extensive they are or if they will matter.
Reply Quote
Hey everyone, if you didn't know already, there's a little red cross-out button to ignore trolls under the screen name arrow.

I think that would be helpful in this thread.
Edited by Nomobo on 6/14/2013 1:34 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
HC
16485
It certainly seems like it sometimes. Not to point at any particular poster, but there is a heck of a lot of hypocrisy, belittling, and objectively fallacious statements being thrown around by who/whatever being propped up as counterarguments to this data.


It's because the data is horrible. Arguing against the Data being used is not the same as arguing against the issues.
Edited by Sensations on 6/14/2013 1:36 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
18930
06/14/2013 01:35 PMPosted by Sensations
It certainly seems like it sometimes. Not to point at any particular poster, but there is a heck of a lot of hypocrisy, belittling, and objectively fallacious statements being thrown around by who/whatever being propped up as counterarguments to this data.


It's because the data is horrible. Arguing against the Data being used is not the same as arguing against the issues.


And I have yet to hear anyone give a compelling argument as to why the aggregation of thousands of logs is a horrible way to assess the throughput that different classes are producing. How can you argue that the data is wrong - from a throughput perspective alone? That is being foolish.

Obviously, throughput doesn't fully paint the picture of the value that a healing spec brings to a raid, and utility, and synergies and burst, and damage reduction cooldowns, etc all play a part. However, if people want to argue that data should be systematically dismissed, they then need to build a model that shows the value added by those intangibles. For example, map out how much benefit is added by things like MTT and AV, and obviously also map out what is being added by utility and things that don't show up on meters that other specs bring.

I don't think anyone is rationally arguing that throughput is everything, but I challenge people to prove in an objective and mathematical manner that the difference in throughput is justified. If you can't do that, you are essentially arguing that we should dig our heads in the sand, ignore all numbers and assume that Blizzard obviously knows how to correctly balance specs.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
18930


It's kind of iffy right now. On the one hand, we *know* for a fact that more changes to address some Shaman concerns are coming. On the other hand, we have no idea how extensive they are or if they will matter.


We don't really know for a fact that anything else is coming. People quoted the GC interview as promising a talent based replacement to Totemic Restoration that addresses range issues, when it really was never a promise, only something they were considering. Here is the actual quote.

Totemic Restoration has proven to be a problematic talent, and we’re considering replacing it in 5.4, so that is one area we could introduce something to improve shaman range.


For all we know, they could have scrapped that idea and decided that in their infinite wisdom, the pathetic 2 yard HR radius increase and Chaining/Riptide glyph tweaks are all that we need.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]