Excusing raiders in the middle of a run

90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11175
Sometimes during a raid a raider will have some sort of an emergency and asked to be excused to go take care of it. Things like serious issues involving their kids, a family emergency, being very sick, etc. Sometimes during a raid a raider will simply get frustrated and want to stop. At that point it is up to the RL or GM to say "you are excused" or "you are not excused".

I'm wondering how often you guys have to say "you are not excused" to your raiders and what sort of consequences you dish out to those who simply walk out.

What I do is if it's an emergency and it's a yes, so be it. The person is replaced for the duration of the raid or if the issue is so big that everyone is too upset/will be too upset to have fun raiding, the raid is called. I think we've only called it entirely once. If it is not an emergency and someone simply gets frustrated, they are denied and asked to finish what they started. I don't believe that others should suffer due to the mood swings of one person, particularly if is due to someone being a jerk and not due to medical reasons (which is a whole other ballgame, handling emotionally disturbed persons with compassion but while preserving the interests of the guild and other raiders is difficult indeed and is not for this thread). If they depart regardless, they are done as they have just lost all trust. We've only had two people in the entire history of me running raids who did such a thing and had permanent action taken against them (both young people who no longer play).

I haven't seen much discussion in these forums on this issue so I figured I'd bring it up. Wondering if in other guilds people even bother asking.
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90 Night Elf Druid
16320
Sounds like something that should be spelled out before someone joins the raid team.

If someone says they have to leave, I take it at their word. When we were into more serious raiding, I'd mark my attendance roster indicating they left. I would not give them any grief over it. I posted the roster publicly.

If it becomes their usual behavior, then, I referred to the published roster and replaced them..
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6 Gnome Rogue
0
I have never told anyone they can't leave.

Either this is a responsible and trusted member of the raid team, who is genuinely having a real life issue they have to take care of...

Or I need to replace them permanently.

In either case, telling them they can't leave is counter productive.
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90 Tauren Warrior
9435
I would never tell someone they couldn't leave, but as kurston said, if it becomes a habit, replace them.
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90 Night Elf Druid
16555
I've never told someone "You are not excused." so I don't have a basis to relate on that note.

However, we have had it where raid members needed to leave because they got sick or had an emergency and then we, as a raid team, vote on whether we want to pick up someone to fill the spot or if we just want to call the raid for the night.

If it becomes a habitual ordeal, then definitely look at the player and see if he or she is worth having as a part of your raid team. If it is an attitude thing and you want that person to "finish what they started", what's to say that person just stops pulling his or her weight or has 'internet issues' or what not because he or she isn't happy?

It's a tough situation when people get frustrated during a raid. I just can't ever see telling someone that they can't leave a raid. If someone doesn't want to be there, let them go.
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14 Human Mage
0
I had a trial a few weeks ago. Amazing player, very nice person, we all like them. Mid raid, "brb" and they were gone for 30 minutes. I explained when they got back that we take organized breaks that are 5-10 minutes (we only raid 90 min - 2 hours) and never that long. They apologized, whatever. Most of us have kids and families, can understand...but the first night with new raid? I told them something like this couldn't be repeated without telling me in advance some kind of time frame (we would have taken a break then instead of waiting endlessly for them to come back or discussing if we'd have to fill spot!)

Next day, they just went afk after a wipe. Then went offline. Well, I insist on numbers or contact so they got a phone call from me. Turns out someone in their household oops pulled the modem out and doing so messed up WoW. The raid (we have lots of IT people in raid) then helped troubleshoot it, fixed their cache folders, and they came back on. We lost 45 minutes because of this.

Third night, we cleared up trash up to second boss, and boom, offline again. No answer on phone. Found out the next day, "wife aggro" and she turned off the computer. We wound up having to do an older raid because didn't have raid geared out tank online to finish (perils of having a Monday raid).

As a result, no raid spot. Three strikes. It would not be fair to the rest of the team that carves out time in our lives for this. Yes certain things are allowable. Have to let a plumber in maybe in a bit... have a sick kid that I'll have to check on... someone's at the door. All these things are understandable pauses from a game (hopefully while we're still eating and not mid boss, but even mid boss fight). I will ask though if that person wants to excuse themselves from raid in advance or if they think it will be a minimal distraction, no pressure. That seems to nip all problems in the bud.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
Agree with Babyjane Some raiders just have too many emergencies .. We had a great tank but because his net connection was so lousy it made raiding with him dicey.. because he would DC frequently... and it seems the DC issue was more when there was bad weather in his area, which in Tx can be a real issue...

So if there were storms in the area he came but as DPS not tank that way if he did DC it would not wipe the raid

Then there was the raider who always seemed to have an emergency... Kid sick, Job issues, Mother issues you name it.. some of these emergencies he was able to give me enough warning so I could replace him.. Others he could not.. I had to bench him til he got his life under control

Some players might want to raid but their personal life issues will not let them.. that is what LFR is for. Raiding guilds for the most part try to accommodate these folks but often can not , not without seriously impacting their 9/24 other raiders
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90 Human Warrior
16760
Sometimes during a raid a raider will have some sort of an emergency and asked to be excused to go take care of it. Things like serious issues involving their kids, a family emergency, being very sick, etc. Sometimes during a raid a raider will simply get frustrated and want to stop. At that point it is up to the RL or GM to say "you are excused" or "you are not excused".

I'm wondering how often you guys have to say "you are not excused" to your raiders and what sort of consequences you dish out to those who simply walk out.

What I do is if it's an emergency and it's a yes, so be it. The person is replaced for the duration of the raid or if the issue is so big that everyone is too upset/will be too upset to have fun raiding, the raid is called. I think we've only called it entirely once. If it is not an emergency and someone simply gets frustrated, they are denied and asked to finish what they started. I don't believe that others should suffer due to the mood swings of one person, particularly if is due to someone being a jerk and not due to medical reasons (which is a whole other ballgame, handling emotionally disturbed persons with compassion but while preserving the interests of the guild and other raiders is difficult indeed and is not for this thread). If they depart regardless, they are done as they have just lost all trust. We've only had two people in the entire history of me running raids who did such a thing and had permanent action taken against them (both young people who no longer play).

I haven't seen much discussion in these forums on this issue so I figured I'd bring it up. Wondering if in other guilds people even bother asking.


Most of my raiders know me very well and many will give me a heads up BEFORE the raid and know if they do that I will do my best to work with them. If they have a sick child/spouse a kid to pick up etc. Things that are not necessarily planned, but events that heighten the chance of an afk or emergency to need to leave. I'll bend over backwards to accommodate them.

If a true emergency comes up, they tell me directly in a whisper and again, I know most of my raiders really well.

Its funny I see this today, though. last night we were struggling on progression. We had a few pugs and a few bench players on. With about 1 hour left in raid time I called for a 3 min break to clear the cobwebs and refocus. I came back to see one of our core team members had in /raid "somebody's at the door, brb" They then logged out of the game and mumble. 10 mins later we replaced him. He's going to log in today to a note via ingame mail that he is benched for this lock out. I'd rather talk to him directly but today is a day I most likely won't get to log on until just before raid time.

So when a player ditches us...thats how its handled. Anything from a 1 lockout benching to a /gkick depending on the circumstances.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11580
I'm wondering how often you guys have to say "you are not excused" to your raiders and what sort of consequences you dish out to those who simply walk out.


Folks needing to leave during an emergency are always excused. If it becomes a habit or if they want to leave out of frustration, then they should expect to be replaced.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
12800
Flakes fall to low priority quickly, and this expansion my guild has enjoyed a lot of enthusiasm for raiding, so we don't have to stand for it.

Emergencies do happen. On Thursday, my 25-man actually had two departures in quick succession. One wasn't surprising — our main tank's ISP uses tin can and string — but as I was grabbing a DPS to substitute for our auxiliary tank, a healer abruptly dropped out due to a toothache.

That one was a little irritating but he's paid his dues and his wife plays right beside him, so the need was legitimate. We needed to text the replacement healer, since he'd informed me before the raid he was tired and felt better if he just filled in.

From there I arrived at the point where I do put my foot down: somebody asks, Can I take a quick bio? It wasn't the time and we had plenty of work to do, and allowing one outside the typical half-mark break has always led to 10 minutes disappearing, so I disallowed it — the poor guy probably slipped away anyway, but at least he (and any other) was running to and back from the bathroom.
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90 Human Paladin
14995
If someone's just feeling frustrated, and tells the raid leader so, then he generally does a ready check vote to see what people want to do. He'll generally rally us for one more attempt, depending on time, and if it's still early, we end up hitting LFR or an older raid or other group activity together.

Chances are if one player's feeling frustrated at hitting their head on a wall (or cuz someone's constantly butterfingering it up) then other players are too. Progress is less likely to occur then--although there have been the "this is the last attempt we'll make tonight" times where we suddenly clicked and got the boss.

Heck, I've had it happen before where i was constantly flubbing up, my head just not on right that evening, and I whispered the raid lead that I just needed to go, as there were other healers on who could replace me. I was holding the team back, and it was only adding to my frustration. I ended up taking a raid break for a time soon after, 'til my short term burnout eased off.

Otherwise, if people have to leave the computer, they have to go. Real life comes first. We can find a replacement or do something else.

If it becomes habitual, the raid lead will probably talk to them about it as being detrimental to the raid group and remind them of the standby system we use to ensure everyone gets to come along, including the ability to choose standby, and only coming if needed.
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I never tell my raiders "No, you cant be excused" our motto is RL before game...if you gotta go because your kid is sick, or you have a headache then by all means go...If someone says "I gotta bio" I say "Go" if its before a boss, we wait, if not I just tell people "we can do trash with out them, so lets go ahead and start clearing trash. Now, I have had a case where it seemed like every week I had one raider on saturdays would have to leave an hour early because "I got work in the morning" when he was given the chance at the start and told us he would make it and be there for the whole thing, then on sundays would say "My arthritus meds are bothering I need to go lay down" so I pretty much told him "Look, your having to leave early one day, not showing up the next. so I am just gonna put you down as an alt raider and find someone for your spot who is more reliable" and he was totally fine with it! But that is the only time I ever had to do it, only because it happened for a month and a half straight. Other then that, I have never told tjhem you cant go get a drink, you cant go bio, you have to stay when they have an emergency. Even a RL job would not do it, so why do it in a video game?
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14 Human Mage
0
It can be freaking annoying though.

My raids I run very organized, with a group I've been with for 2-4 years. So we're focused, take a 10 min break usually mid run. And as I said above, 1 ER break is fine, don't care, multiples for new person is red flag/no go. I've always considered punctuality in raids a deal breaker before I was RL. I would judge raids I'd PUG with 1) if they started on time 2) if they had breaks/time raided vs. time AFK. So I act accordingly now I'm RL myself.

I run an achieve "fun" run one day a week. It should TOPS take 90 minutes to clear BOT or FL with breaks. It has dissolved into AFK-fest that takes 4 FREAKING HOURS. No one has DBM. Half the raid is tabbed out. Multiple 90s doing under 10k. And I find myself the only one alive soloing the boss.

I'm a happy-go-lucky laid back person, but I need a break now for achievement runs. Even announcing break schedule at start and being as draconian as possible, I can't get a hold of it (from someone who does Heroic runs that doesn't consider themselves as Elitist at all!--gotta learn some where). Different audience I'm raiding with so I keep that in mind...

I don't want to spend all day on bosses I can most likely 2-3 man or even solo if given the focus for it. So I'm now cancelling these runs till I get the urge again to do it, which is too bad. Want to keep such things open invite but frustrating!
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14 Human Mage
0
I never tell my raiders "No, you cant be excused" our motto is RL before game..


Eh. I've heard this a hundred times before so highlighting this because it annoys me. The RL > WoW. I find it disingenuous. Your emergency doesn't always equal 9 other people's night ruined or on hold waiting for you, because that's what happens most of the time. "Oh she was on earlier! She said she was so excited for tonight! Let's wait a bit more! We can clear trash and see if she comes on!" *crickets 45 minutes into raid* someone hearths to LFM*

The time I put into WoW is equivalent to if I hosted a bowling team or soft ball or basketball league. And this is precisely how I see WoW. If you practiced for 4 weeks and signed up to pitch for the big intramural league night and couldn't make it suddenly, would you let the coach know?

I don't want any of my raiders or guildies to lose their jobs or spouse or injure their children because of WoW than any other hobby, but 9 people waiting on you, expecting you to honor your word also is a factor. I've only missed 2 raids in 6 years. Father's surgery and came back from vacation and my house sitter lost the keys and I had to drive to my parents house an hour away to pick up my spare set (and lo, missed raid).

I've played when sick, I've played when depressed, I've played with bad connections, and each time when I thought I wasn't giving it my best (well storms and I was worried my internet would go out), I told people. And of the hundreds and hundreds of raids I've done, I've only had to replace myself TWICE.

I loooove to raid, so it's not a hardship or bragging point. Days I raid are the highlights of my week
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