How good is arcane?

1 Human Mage
0
06/13/2013 11:41 AMPosted by Breaktheice
So if Arcane does well they're abusing their mastery, but when Fire scores a string of crits and pulls ahead, they're not abusing their mastery?

The mage bombs are completely unaffected by fire's mastery.

You should at least get your facts right before /ranting

/facepalm
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100 Human Mage
10410
I have given up. The ghost writer has some good points and some I don’t agree with. Hopefully the OP can make their decision and have some fun at the same time.

I admit to being bias and will stop contributing to this thread. I never said I was an expert, just someone who has fun in their chosen spec. I am a causal 5 year arcane mage and in the ghost writer’s eyes, probably uneducated. I will never be able to come close to their far superior intellect and game proficiency.
Edited by Noikona on 6/13/2013 12:06 PM PDT
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1 Human Mage
0
^So if Arcane does well they're abusing their mastery, but when Fire scores a string of crits and pulls ahead, they're not abusing their mastery?

Okay.


I have given up.

They guy you quote makes a post that is factually wrong, and you turn this around to be my fault?

The mage bombs, all three of them, are completely unaffected by Fire's mastery. They are fully effected by Arcane's. This is not me just making sh!t up. This is cold hard raw fact.

Wow.. mages these days. Really...
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100 Human Mage
10410


I have given up.

They guy you quote makes a post that is factually wrong, and you turn this around to be my fault?

The mage bombs, all three of them, are completely unaffected by Fire's mastery. They are fully effected by Arcane's. This is not me just making sh!t up. This is cold hard raw fact.

Wow.. mages these days. Really...


I apologize, the quote was a mistake and has been removed. Have a nice day :)
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100 Gnome Mage
8585


I have given up.

They guy you quote makes a post that is factually wrong, and you turn this around to be my fault?

The mage bombs, all three of them, are completely unaffected by Fire's mastery. They are fully effected by Arcane's. This is not me just making sh!t up. This is cold hard raw fact.

Wow.. mages these days. Really...

I know that. My point was, the fact that Arcane can put out great numbers doesn't mean that it's "mastery abuse". It's just what Arcane does. It's one of the strongest, if not the strongest DPS spec in the game right now if allowed time to turret with its mastery.

You can't say Arcane is doing well on the dps charts because it's abusing something. Arcane has always been a powerful spec for heroic raiders because of its mastery. That will probably never change.

If anything t16 will see even more Arcane mages because how amazing the t16 set bonuses (both 2 pc and 4 pc) are for Arcane.
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100 Goblin Mage
10025
lol how does mastery pertain to scoring a string of crits........... btw some how I do my best on horridon and council in arcane and not fire lol....... but its a real pain to do
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1 Human Mage
0
06/13/2013 05:32 PMPosted by Breaktheice
I know that. My point was, the fact that Arcane can put out great numbers doesn't mean that it's "mastery abuse". It's just what Arcane does.

Thats precisely the opposite of "what arcane does".

Arcane is meant to be a nuker spec, not a 'tab-targetting-dot" spec.

The entire point I am making is that the warped numbers from arcane are coming from the absurdly strong BOMBS (which are classwide) which are due to the way the bombs interact with its mastery, which, in turn, promotes a gameplay where Arcane basically turns into a "NT DoT spam" spec which is the complete opposite of what it is meant to be.

If you believe that arcane is supposed to be a spec that is about DoT spamming, then I think I can safely tell you, you are wrong.

That is precisely what arcane does not do. And when they nerf the bombs, that particular abomination of gameplay will cease to exist, and hence, Arcane's inflated numbers will dwindle.

This is not even that complicated to understand, which is why I think you must be trolling at this point. Either trolling or extremely misinformed. Given your complete failure to understand basic mage mechanics (fire's mastery does what with the bombs now?), I choose to believe your failure is due to the latter.
Edited by Zomgdps on 6/13/2013 6:54 PM PDT
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100 Gnome Mage
8585
Arcane is meant to be a nuker spec, not a 'tab-targetting-dot" spec.

Arcane basically turns into a "NT DoT spam" spec which is the complete opposite of what it is meant to be.


Then why is Arcane in the top 10 for DPS on bosses like Twin Consorts & Jin Rokh? They don't allow for much dotting.

My problem with what you're saying is that a spec finds the best way to do the most damage possible and put out incredible numbers given the current talents is labeled as "abuse" of mastery. Meanwhile, another spec that can achieve great numbers in other ways not directly linked to their bombs is not abusing anything? That's not fair.

It's not like Arcane mages chose to have their mobility absolutely raped and the buff to the bombs was pretty much the only way the devs could have kept in the running for pulling in dps with exceptionally high ilvl.

If arcane mages are using that technique to get great numbers, on any boss fights (single or multiple target) it should not be labeled as "abuse". It's the only way the class is surviving.

My comment of "but when Fire scores a string of crits and pulls ahead, they're not abusing their mastery?" wasn't to do with Fire mages and the bombs, but the fact that you took it that way is interesting. It's what what I explained earlier. Fire pulls numbers when it gets a great crit rating and with Critical Mass can score a string of crits and then combust for amazing dps numbers. This is the way the class is meant to be played, and if played right - you can't call out a fire mage for abusing anything.

Similarly, Arcane was changed a lot with the 5.2 patch, and now Arcane is required to be a dotting class to keep up with the other dps-ers. If Arcane does this to get the numbers, it's not an abuse. The fact that you don't think this is how Arcane should be played is meaningless. The fact that I think this is how Arcane should be played is also meaningless. At the end, it's the results that matter.

But if Arcane mages are playing that way, and getting great numbers, they're not abusing anything. It's just how their spec has evolved from 5.1 to 5.2. If they're getting those numbers, good for them.

None of this changes my original statement or disproves it that Arcane does put out incredible numbers on some heroic runs.
Edited by Breaktheice on 6/13/2013 9:51 PM PDT
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1 Human Mage
0
06/13/2013 09:29 PMPosted by Breaktheice
My problem with what you're saying is that a spec finds the best way to do the most damage possible and put out incredible numbers given the current talents is labeled as "abuse" of mastery.

I'm going to say this one last time, and I will try to be as clear as I can possibly be, since even after 2 pages, you are still completely oblivious to the point being made.

Now, this could either by due to your complete puerility of form and excess of ignorance about mechanics (i.e. hard facts), or maybe you are just a complete idiot.
Either way, I am not going to spend more time trying to get you to educate you (especially since you are completely unwilling to educate yourself - and, as you have demonstrated numerous times in this thread - you are completely unwilling to even fuking READ in the first place).

Friendly note before we continue, you will never LEARN anything if you do not READ.

To start with, absolutely no one in this thread or any other has stated that "Arcane doing what is meant to be doing, and that is an abuse of mastery". You are like one of those moronic, irritating kids who (even when they know better) will continuously try to retort to points no one is making. In common english, this is known as a 'strawmans fallacy'. I suggest you look it up, and I highly suggest that if you ever wish to be taken seriously, you stop doing it.

What is, however, being said (and sit quietly now since this may blow your mind) is that there exist times in the game where Arcane, due to synergies overlooked by the development team, has performed in a way that is unintended in the game's design. Now note, this 'unintended gameplay' is not due to something I have said, or some other player has said, but it is directly from the mouth of the developers of the game. They are the ones who label it unintended.

One such occurrence of this phenomena was the playstyle called "scorch camping" (you do not know your history, so spend some time learning it). This playstyle also produced good numbers, but was 'abusing' a synergy that was not supposed to exist.
What happened? Well, blizzard nerfed that gameplay since it was unintended.

The exact same situation exists today with the mage bomb spells. Arcane's performance numbers are inflated since Arcane (uniquely enough) has a special synergy with the bomb spells that none of the other specs have.

The bombs damage is already inflated, an effect which is compounded with Arcane's mastery. That is the core of the issue.
The funny thing is, Blizz has already admitted to it and is going to nerf the bombs back down. And as soon as they do, the inflated Arcane numbers will die down, exactly as they did when scorch camping was nerfed.

That is the entirety and simplicity of the point that literally everyone else not only knows, but abuses, but is something you are literally fighting to remain ignorant of (I haven't seen someone fight to remain ignorant as fervently as you are right now, btw, not in a looong time).

If you cannot understand this, then fine. Go on your way and believe what you will, but do not Q_Q like a nub when everyone just ignores what you are saying...

There really are so many trolls and idiots on the official forums, no wonder no one wants to return to help this dying mage community out.
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I'm playing arcane right now on my other mage, it's quite a pain in the !@# because of the level 90 talent.

It would be a lot more fun if you weren't shackled down to the Rune of Power. Expect to be casting it a ton. If you're unlucky, that might be all you cast for an entire fight.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
3130
I was playing arcane until yesterday.
I switched to frost, and since then my dps went up an average 10k and I'm loving it.

Arcane is very bad in raids because of the long boss fights. When my mana ran out during a boss fight...I felt pretty stupid standing around doing minimal dps.

With frost I don't have that problem...it's consistant high dps the entire boss fight.
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100 Gnome Mage
8585
...

You are entitled to sit behind a level 1 toon and talk down to me all you want and think I'd be insulted by it, and that's fine.

Yet, none of what you say disproves what I first said: Arcane can and does pull out incredible numbers on heroic runs. And I've given you logs to prove that and all you've done is talk about how a spec was supposed to be played and how players abused it.

Whether or not this changes with upcoming patches remains to be seen.

I am aware of Scorch weaving being taken away from Arcane when 5.2 was first introduced. The fact that you think everyone is ignorant (when ironically you completely missed my point about Fire's crit and failed to even acknowledge that once I pointed it out) if they don't agree with you is comical.

So yea, keep talking about upcoming changes and how players are abusing a spec. World of Logs doesn't lie, but you could try to sound like a elite genius all day long behind a level 1 toon and be taken seriously.

Have a good life.
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100 Human Mage
12405
I switched back to Arcane this week for raid and I'm happy with the results so far. I have been able to manage my mana fine so far. I would suggest staying frost until you have higher gear so you can get the most out of arcane.
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100 Human Mage
14150
I was playing arcane until yesterday.
I switched to frost, and since then my dps went up an average 10k and I'm loving it.

Arcane is very bad in raids because of the long boss fights. When my mana ran out during a boss fight...I felt pretty stupid standing around doing minimal dps.

With frost I don't have that problem...it's consistant high dps the entire boss fight.


You shouldn't be running out of mana. Clear your AB stacks.
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100 Human Mage
10410
His damage will be sufficient picking no spec and spamming FFBs into the boss

Is not correct.

Yes it is.


I was wrong the ghost writer was correct....

Out of boredom last night I de-speced my secondary and focused on a single raid practice target (the one that sits by itself in Stormwind).

I used the following…

Haste Build, No Food, No Flask, Arcane Brilliance and Frost Armor.
Rotation: Frost Bomb, Frost Fire Bolt x4, Fire Blast (repeated about 7 times)

The above rotation in 506 gear I was able to sustain about 32K DPS, which would be passing for 5 mans (although low but I have seen much worse). DPS in an actual dungeon would be far greater from the AoE effect of the bomb.
Edited by Noikona on 6/14/2013 7:04 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
10990
I was playing arcane until yesterday.
I switched to frost, and since then my dps went up an average 10k and I'm loving it.

Arcane is very bad in raids because of the long boss fights. When my mana ran out during a boss fight...I felt pretty stupid standing around doing minimal dps.

With frost I don't have that problem...it's consistant high dps the entire boss fight.


If you ever run out (or really drop below 85%) mana as arcane you're doing it wrong.

I can stay at 90% all day long, doesn't matter how long the fight is. That's the whole point of arcane's mastery, managing your mana pool so you stay near max. I try to stay at 4 stacks as long as possible, but that's only if I get lucky with missile procs. At the start of a fight I hit AP and let my mana drop to 70% or so, then use a gem. Then go back to standard rotation. I generally save missile procs until 4 stacks, unless I get two of them right off the bat then I'll burn one. Dot everything, keep NT up at all times. AOE is stupid high right now which is fun, I consider it payback for the horrible AOE we had for so long.

I've been arcane since Wrath and just enjoy the play style. I also enjoy being near the top of the dps charts because I actually learned to maximize my dps output instead of just spamming AB. My gear is ok, but nothing terrific. I frequently am #1 in LFR, and have no troubles in regular 10 mans either. I realize that an identically geared frost mage that knows what he's doing can probably out dps me. I don't care. With raid buffs I can easily top 100k in most fights. That's respectable IMO.
Edited by Aldaras on 6/14/2013 9:25 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Mage
9710
actually you don't sit at 90% mana with arcane anymore. FYI
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90 Blood Elf Mage
10990
actually you don't sit at 90% mana with arcane anymore. FYI


Do tell.

Mastery still works the same way so why would you not keep mana up?
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90 Gnome Warlock
8465
I am not sure any of the mage specs are more than 5-6% apart when played and geared appropriately. Certain specs are better for certain fights, but I am pretty close with all specs when I reforge, and regem my gear for it. Maybe it's because I am equally bad at all three specs. :)

That said, arcane requires much more thought to do well than the other specs because of the movement in the current raid environment and arcane's reliance on RoP to be competitive. Whoever thought I would ever say THAT.
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For PVE raiding, arcane isn't top till extreme endgame gear with lots of heroic pieces and heroic 4T15. Wtihout that kind of gear fire and frost are well ahead of arcane.


I'm at 512 ATM, so I see no reason to switch to Fire or Frost. 1. I hate forgetting to bring out my pet. 2. I hate "chance at higher DPS" with fire.

If I ever see gear in the 530s, I might switch specs, but right now, I've not found a successful raid for normals to even see a single piece of 522 gear that isn't from SPA. :/

*Edit* Noxxic is saying 522 is currently best as Arcane. Whether you believe that or not, I *still* don't see a reason to switch specs. In fact, I won't. It's infinitesimal difference, and doesn't really matter consider all of the LFR I'm doing anyway, so, meh. One more note, I do use Living Bomb a lot. No, it's not Arcane Specific, but it does help tremendously in AoE DPS.
Edited by Sonicgott on 6/14/2013 7:22 PM PDT
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