Askmrrobot devaluing T15 4-set

Recently I picked up some new gear and messed around changing my chest piece to the LFR tier for the shoulders just to see how that would pan out. Ultimately, after flipping some gear around and using Mr. Robot's suggestions, I was using only a 2-set. I'm thinking possibly it's because the added crit from the higher ilvl items cancelled out the 5% to pyroblast. My current armory has the gear It suggested minus the VP legs. I was wearing the same stuff cept LFR tier shoulders and legs.
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97 Undead Mage
16300
Which spec? Fire or Arcane? You have gemmed and reforged for haste, so thinking Arcane, so Askmrrobot must be wrong since the 4pc is strong for Arcane, afaik. I haven't raided normal modes this tier but have kept up on my reading and Arcane and Fire benefit the most from the 4pc.
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I'm fire just wasn't finished changing from arcane. I switch specs every week.
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98 Worgen Mage
17990
Yeah set bonuses have been wonky for the past month that I've used it. I've been reporting whatever bugs I see on their technical support forum and they're good about following up.

Ilvl scaling is huge though, yeah. A couple of high pieces can outperform a set bonus sometimes.
Edited by Digerati on 6/11/2013 4:38 PM PDT
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well it brings my spell crit up 1 1/2% or so, as apposed to 5% just to pyro seems kinda hard to tell which is better seems like pyro would be better......... I mean there are other stats idk gonna do a little bigger comparsion
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11510
Ask Mr Robot once recommended that I replace a trinket with the LFR version of the same trinket.

Ask Mr Robot is a moron.
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90 Troll Mage
18180
I would not recommend the fire 4 set honestly, if you plan to do another spec or dabble with one it might be worth your while but if you plan to only play fire then I would not go for it at all. You can most definitely get better pieces and get say 3% crit with all of your spells instead of just 5% with your pyroblast just from taking better pieces alone without counting thunderforged.
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90 Human Mage
7655
Yeah I don't understand Mr. Robot. When I ask it to optimize me it has me reforging out of haste and into mastery as frost. I don't think it's taking into account that mastery is useless to a raiding frost mage.
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90 Undead Mage
13765
Yeah I don't understand Mr. Robot. When I ask it to optimize me it has me reforging out of haste and into mastery as frost. I don't think it's taking into account that mastery is useless to a raiding frost mage.


It doesn't have you reforging out of haste. You're under the hit cap, meaning it has to sacrifice some haste (look at your weapon) through reforges to get you capped. You also don't have your boots enchanted which will give you an automatic 140 mastery you didn't have before. Notice how it has 3 of your reforges swapping haste in, and one swapping mastery out. Do what it says.
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90 Human Mage
7655
06/12/2013 08:27 PMPosted by Veggie
Yeah I don't understand Mr. Robot. When I ask it to optimize me it has me reforging out of haste and into mastery as frost. I don't think it's taking into account that mastery is useless to a raiding frost mage.


It doesn't have you reforging out of haste. You're under the hit cap, meaning it has to sacrifice some haste (look at your weapon) through reforges to get you capped. You also don't have your boots enchanted which will give you an automatic 140 mastery you didn't have before. Notice how it has 3 of your reforges swapping haste in, and one swapping mastery out. Do what it says.


Except I do have my boots enchanted with 175 Haste, so I don't know what's going on there. And even if I didn't, why would it tell me to put a mastery enchant on them and not a haste enchant? When I hit the optimize button it has me sacrifice 1.22% hit for .42% hit, .92% mastery, and .08% crit. It has me swaping out the 175 haste enchant for the 140 mastery enchant. I do not understand how these particular changes are improvements.
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90 Undead Mage
13765

Except I do have my boots enchanted with 175 Haste, so I don't know what's going on there. And even if I didn't, why would it tell me to put a mastery enchant on them and not a haste enchant? When I hit the optimize button it has me sacrifice 1.22% hit for .42% hit, .92% mastery, and .08% crit. It has me swaping out the 175 haste enchant for the 140 mastery enchant. I do not understand how these particular changes are improvements.


That haste enchant wasn't there when I checked your profile out earlier but oh well. Either way the 8% movement buff is more beneficial than the 175 haste. The mastery isn't what causes Mr. Robot to prefer it, it's the movement buff. Fights like Durumu or Tortos easily benefit more from the movement buff over a decimal increase in haste. A fight like Consorts would benefit more from the haste enchant, but it's realistically the only fight you can do without having to move, and even then 9/10 times you'll be moving.

I assume when you say 1.22% hit you meant haste. I don't know where the 1.22% is coming from, as when I hit optimize it says you're losing .88%. You're losing that .88% haste because you have to switch out for Pandaren Step and because you reforged your main hand for haste, but you need to draw hit from it so it drops that reforge. Haste is not more important than hit. Hit is always the first of the secondary stats you need to focus on. Haste comes after it. Mr. Robot then compensates the best it can by saying your remaining reforges need to increase your haste, and decrease your mastery.
Edited by Veggie on 6/12/2013 11:15 PM PDT
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90 Human Mage
7655

That haste enchant wasn't there when I checked your profile out earlier but oh well. Either way the 8% movement buff is more beneficial than the 175 haste. The mastery isn't what causes Mr. Robot to prefer it, it's the movement buff. Fights like Durumu or Tortos easily benefit more from the movement buff over a decimal increase in haste. A fight like Consorts would benefit more from the haste enchant, but it's realistically the only fight you can do without having to move, and even then 9/10 times you'll be moving.


I disagree here. Even on fights with lots of movement an 8% increase in movement speed isn't making or breaking the fight - If I have to quickly I'll use blink or blazing speed, and for fights like Durumu my movement is constrained by the light cones / maze openings, so I'm not really able to benefit from the 8% extra speed anyway. But that's not really my main issue with Mr. Robot:

I assume when you say 1.22% hit you meant haste. I don't know where the 1.22% is coming from, as when I hit optimize it says you're losing .88%. You're losing that .88% haste because you have to switch out for Pandaren Step and because you reforged your main hand for haste, but you need to draw hit from it so it drops that reforge. Haste is not more important than hit. Hit is always the first of the secondary stats you need to focus on. Haste comes after it. Mr. Robot then compensates the best it can by saying your remaining reforges need to increase your haste, and decrease your mastery.


I don't necessarily disagree with Mr. Robot's optimization theories (boot enchant aside), but what I mostly question is the data that it's using to make its decisions in the first place. According to Mr. Robot my unbuffed spell haste is 21.35% - that's only true if I'm using Frost Armor. Which is a fair assumption, but then why doesn't it also assume I'll always be using Arcane Brilliance? So it's already decided that "unbuffed" actually means certain self-buffs but not others. Next is crit. According to Mr. Robot I have 9.65% crit, yet my actual character screen in WoW says I have 12.65% crit. What's causing the discrepancy? I'm not in a group and have no buffs.

As far as hit is concerned, I certainly understand its importance. However for the sake of my bank account I like to leave a little buffer to the hit cap so I don't have to constantly spend money reforging everything after every upgrade because practically all of them will put me over the hit cap. I still question the optimization of sacrificing 1.22% haste for .42% like it was yesterday - that's just a tradeoff I don't think will bring me a net gain in DPS. (Incidentally, when I hit optimize today I'm getting the same .88% haste reduction you were, even though I always update from armory every time before I optimize. Perhaps my page didn't refresh properly or something.)

I do have a question though: As far as I can tell Mr. Robot only optimizes for enchants & reforging because it's never, ever, told me to re-gem. Is that a premium feature or something, or does Mr. Robot simply always agree with my gemming decisions?
Edited by Verraine on 6/13/2013 3:52 PM PDT
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90 Undead Mage
13765

I disagree here. Even on fights with lots of movement an 8% increase in movement speed isn't making or breaking the fight - If I have to quickly I'll use blink or blazing speed, and for fights like Durumu my movement is constrained by the light cones / maze openings, so I'm not really able to benefit from the 8% extra speed anyway. But that's not really my main issue with Mr. Robot:


It's telling you the absolute best way to tweak your character but yes, you don't have to listen to it. To each their own, but there's a reason it prefers Mastery/Movement over Haste.


I don't necessarily disagree with Mr. Robot's optimization theories (boot enchant aside), but what I mostly question is the data that it's using to make its decisions in the first place. According to Mr. Robot my unbuffed spell haste is 21.35% - that's only true if I'm using Frost Armor. Which is a fair assumption, but then why doesn't it also assume I'll always be using Arcane Brilliance? So it's already decided that "unbuffed" actually means certain self-buffs but not others. Next is crit. According to Mr. Robot I have 9.65% crit, yet my actual character screen in WoW says I have 12.65% crit. What's causing the discrepancy? I'm not in a group and have no buffs.


Maybe it doesn't consider Frost Armor a buff in the same regard as things like Arcane Brilliance or Fortitude because it's literally always on you. It persists through death and you only have to apply it if you do something like switch talents or entire specs. That's the only thing I can think of. I do agree the stats totals can be a bit wonky though. My crit doesn't match either buffed or unbuffed.

As far as hit is concerned, I certainly understand its importance. However for the sake of my bank account I like to leave a little buffer to the hit cap so I don't have to constantly spend money reforging everything after every upgrade because practically all of them will put me over the hit cap. I still question the optimization of sacrificing 1.22% haste for .42% like it was yesterday - that's just a tradeoff I don't think will bring me a net gain in DPS. (Incidentally, when I hit optimize today I'm getting the same .88% haste reduction you were, even though I always update from armory every time before I optimize. Perhaps my page didn't refresh properly or something.)


Being under hit is a more definite hit to overall DPS. More so than losing .88% haste will ever do. Being almost a half percent under will cause problems. On paper it doesn't seem like much but you can be missing spells that you benefit greatly from landing. A missed Nether Tempest may go unnoticed but that's a big DPS loss. You're based around procs and missing a FFB or Lance here and there adds up. That's not even taking into account one day you may go Fire. Imagine building up a great combustion only to have it miss. That's an instant loss of hundreds of thousands of DPS. If you're poor enough to not be able to afford one or two gems if you get a new piece you need to take a look at where you're wasting your money. Gold is sooo easy to come by that you should never have a problem affording a few gem and reforge replacements a couple times a week. There's also going out and farming it. Or taking up professions that make buying the items needless. With my own characters I have everything covered. Maybe look into that.

Also it was 1.22% yesterday because your boots weren't enchanted. Both Mr. Robot and your Armory had the boot enchant blank. So either you had your boots enchanted that day and hadn't yet logged out of WoW so the armory could update, you put that enchant on after my initial reply.

I do have a question though: As far as I can tell Mr. Robot only optimizes for enchants & reforging because it's never, ever, told me to re-gem. Is that a premium feature or something, or does Mr. Robot simply always agree with my gemming decisions?


It's agreeing right now. You're under hit cap and as such it's going to tell you to throw everything you have at capping it. Every one of your gems that can be +hit is, so it's cool with that. Again I can't stress enough how much you need to be hit capped. Mr.Robot will sometimes even tell you that being 14.98 is just as good as being hit, but I disagree. You want to be over 15%. It's putting you at 15.02% which is really as good as it can get. Get hit capped.

I also say all this while accepting the fact that I don't know why you play. You may be content just doing LFR once a week and not worrying about DPS and missing spells. If you're content with what you do then keep on doing it, no one can tell you how to play. But if you are serious about getting the most out of your spec as you can, do what Mr. Robot says. If you fix what it's telling you to do, you will see an overall DPS increase.
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