RShaman 5.4 data mining! (Updated 07/08/13)

oh look the buff we were suppose to get this patch we are getting next patch..

No buff. The 50% Purification benefit to HTT is getting removed. Their intention is to make HTT better for Ele/Enh without making it stronger for Resto. A silly act, as I still believe that HTT should be Resto baseline already (really, who doesn't?).
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8490
No buff. The 50% Purification benefit to HTT is getting removed. Their intention is to make HTT better for Ele/Enh without making it stronger for Resto. A silly act, as I still believe that HTT should be Resto baseline already (really, who doesn't?).


If thats the case..then wtf!
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
1. changes are definitely not finished. I have a feeling you will see similar sweeping changes to Shaman that you saw for Druids

2. the 4 piece is amazing. SWG is now either a movement cooldown, a throughput cooldown, or both.


1. I understand your perspective. But many of us have been saying this since Firelands and are still waiting for these sweeping changes.
2. Linking a throughput cooldown to a vital mobility cooldown, when mobility is our weak area, is not wise. It was dumb in DS and it's dumb now.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555

06/12/2013 03:42 AMPosted by Tiberria
be prepared to be 25-30% behind for the rest of the expansion


Havn't even seen numbers for 5.4 yet and already crying. Shouldn't expect much from you I suppose.


Cause trusting that the devs will balance it by release has worked out well for us in the past?

Your hyperbole is showing again.


You cannot get threw to the shaman culture. Unless they have the best of the best of everything, then the tears will flow.


When have we ever had the best of everything? The last time I remember Shaman healers even being in the top 2 healer classes was ICC. Are you really going back two expansions?
Edited by Luvbacon on 6/19/2013 9:04 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Nothing in these changes is a buff of any magnitude. I really can't see Conductivity being viable with the redesign. Here are the problems with it.
(1) For it to be worth taking over HTT (or AG), you need to more than make up the throughput you lose from dropping HTT. It actually needs to be significantly superior total throughput, because burst and a raid cooldown is a lot more valuable than sustained throughput in almost all cases. Unless Conductivity is at least a 15% total throughput boost, I am not touching it.
(2) It isn't going to prevent you from having to cast HR; the cast time of the spells that extend it are longer than the 1 second that it adds. All that it adds is the potential for 100% uptime (instead of losing uptime while casting the new HR) and the potential to extend HR to always line up with ULE.
(3) It is highly likely that the extended duration of HR is going to play havoc with haste breakpoints, and prevent you from being able to reliably gear for an HR haste breakpoint if you are taking Conductivity, because the breakpoints will be dynamically changing every time you extend the duration.
(4) HR tops out at about 40% of my output on extremely stacked fights. Best case scenario for Conductivity is it increases HR uptime by around 20%. That makes the best case scenario for Conductivity as being about an 8% output gain - and likely far less on most non stacked fights, 10 man, etc. This is probably less than you gain from HTT outright, and is not compelling enough to warrant losing a raid CD.

I agree that tying T16 4pc to SWG is incredibly poor design. If we need a cooldown while moving, we can already just use SWG and Ascendance. Sometimes, I want to use SWG without burning a throughput CD - we should have that option. If they need to link it to another ability, I would prefer it just be linked to Ascendance (and buff it to compensate3 min CD vs 2 min) and turn Ascendance into an amazing CD.
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90 Troll Priest
9890
06/19/2013 09:04 PMPosted by Tiberria
I want to use SWG without burning a throughput CD - we should have that option.


In my opinion there should be a trade off if you get another CD, especially one that purely mimics your spells (havnt seen any math on it yet). While yes it would suck to use it then promptly after you need SWG but I can understand to an extent.

However, this 4pc coupled with a knowledge for a fight should prove to be quite formidable.

06/19/2013 08:19 PMPosted by Korghal
HTT should be Resto baseline already


I rarely agree with half of you but this I will say would be ideal. The design of HTT is powerful and blizzard really pigeon-holed you guys in there to picking it up.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16765
06/20/2013 01:37 PMPosted by Dmassey
especially one that purely mimics your spells (havnt seen any math on it yet).


So far it consistently heals for 50-55% less than you. I imagine this is because the 4P is considered a guardian. But it is smart.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16765
Messed around with Conductivity some with the current build.

When you cast Healing Rain, you now get a buff (called Healing Rain), simply indicating the time remaining on your currently standing Healing Rain. At any rate, this now gives an easy method for viewing each Shaman's Healing Rain uptime via this buff through WoL.

Because this buff is unique, if you attempt to cast a second Healing Rain, it simply overwrites the buff, anew, removing the old Healing Rain.

After about 13.5 seconds, the blue, circular graphic of Healing Rain disappears, regardless of the remaining duration, though it continues to heal.

It seems to only give you an extra tick if the extra duration has a margin of ~0.2s after the final tick. This was done in short, poorly controlled experiments. I'd like to extend it, but will probably delay it for now.

It does not currently work with Chain Heal.

Also, something not recorded by MMO:

Unleashed Fury (Talent)
Earthliving Weapon effect now applies to the Shaman, not the target.
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Thanks for the information, Aurinaux. Added the ELW change to the OP, but I'm confused about the wording: Does it mean that the UF_UL buff now only buffs the next heal on the Shaman, or does it simply mean the UF_UL effect is now a buff on the Shaman just like Unleash Life is?
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Messed around with Conductivity some with the current build.

When you cast Healing Rain, you now get a buff (called Healing Rain), simply indicating the time remaining on your currently standing Healing Rain. At any rate, this now gives an easy method for viewing each Shaman's Healing Rain uptime via this buff through WoL.

Because this buff is unique, if you attempt to cast a second Healing Rain, it simply overwrites the buff, anew, removing the old Healing Rain.

After about 13.5 seconds, the blue, circular graphic of Healing Rain disappears, regardless of the remaining duration, though it continues to heal.

It seems to only give you an extra tick if the extra duration has a margin of ~0.2s after the final tick. This was done in short, poorly controlled experiments. I'd like to extend it, but will probably delay it for now.

It does not currently work with Chain Heal.

Also, something not recorded by MMO:

Unleashed Fury (Talent)
Earthliving Weapon effect now applies to the Shaman, not the target.


The fact that the redesigned Conductivity does not allow a second Healing Rain to potentially be put down pretty much puts the nail in the coffin as far as it being a viable Resto talent. The only thing that you gain from Conductivity is having 100% Healing Rain uptime, instead of closer to 80% uptime when you factor in recasting it. That makes it a theoretical 20% increase to HR, or about a 4%-6% overall throughput increase on most fights. In most cases, HTT will give you more total healing, and a burst raid CD will always be more valuable than the same amount of passive output.

The Unleashed Fury change is very nice for raiding. One of the main reasons UF was so weak for Resto outside of niche uses is the problem that by the time you get a ULE off and finish the cast on the same target (close to 4 seconds), the heal gets sniped, making the talented portion of UF usually useless. It will be more of a viable replacement for Primal Elementalist now that you can choose a different target on fights where elementals are problematic/bug out.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Thanks for the information, Aurinaux. Added the ELW change to the OP, but I'm confused about the wording: Does it mean that the UF_UL buff now only buffs the next heal on the Shaman, or does it simply mean the UF_UL effect is now a buff on the Shaman just like Unleash Life is?


When you use UF-ULE on the PTR, you now get 2 buffs on yourself that give 30% and 50% increases to your next direct heal (the 30% still works on Healing Rain, but not the 50%). The buffs apply to your next direct heal on any target.
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
Well, with the paladin changes it appears Blizz was serious about taking aim at absorbs which should help Shaman at least a little bit through your mastery. I have to wonder what sort of nerf-hammer to the face disc has coming since they are even worse offenders than paladins in the absorb/instants snipe fest...
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Well, with the paladin changes it appears Blizz was serious about taking aim at absorbs which should help Shaman at least a little bit through your mastery. I have to wonder what sort of nerf-hammer to the face disc has coming since they are even worse offenders than paladins in the absorb/instants snipe fest...


GC tweeted earlier tonight that they plan to compensate Paladins for the EF nerf, so there isn't likely to be any major changes. The addition of Genesis for Druids is going to snipe more Healing Rain healing from us than any absorb nerf will give back. Nothing has changed - we still need at least a 25% across the board buff.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
TBH I don't see why glyph of chaining needs to have a cooldown at all.

I can see a problem where shamans would just always use it. But is that really a bad thing?
Edited by Suplift on 6/20/2013 6:02 PM PDT
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According to GC's logic, it is. It's funny; back in beta when Chaining and Riptide glyphs were first implemented, we asked why they had such penalties attached. He said that they would re-evaluate such penalties, as it should be enough of a 'penalty' to spend the glyph slots on them rather than on other glyphs. However, nothing was ever done to diminish the penalties other than having RT reduce the initial heal by 90% instead of 100% for Resurgence purposes.

I'm really confused as to what is the purpose of the glyph system in general through this expansion. You got glyphs that have complete benefits with no downsides (e.g: new Lightning Shield, Healing Storm, Healing Stream Totem) and then others that feel like they're just tantalizing you to get you to make poor choices (Chaining and Riptide, another example being the live version of Inquisition, glyphs that are pretty much bad choices).
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
TBH I don't see why glyph of chaining needs to have a cooldown at all.

I can see a problem where shamans would just always use it. But is that really a bad thing?


They won't do it because
(1) It would make the glyph mandatory for PvE raiding because there would be no reason to ever not take it. They claim mandatory glyphs are against design intent
(2) It wouldn't have a downside, and their design intention is apparently also that glyphs either have to add a very trivial benefit or have a downside associated with the buff they provide.

It would probably make more sense to just make the jump distance increase baseline if they wanted to remove the CD from glyph of Chaining. After all, what other spec in the game has to use a glyph to get full range on their spells?
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90 Draenei Shaman
16765
The only thing that you gain from Conductivity is having 100% Healing Rain uptime, instead of closer to 80% uptime when you factor in recasting it. That makes it a theoretical 20% increase to HR, or about a 4%-6% overall throughput increase on most fights.


Increasing the duration of HR reduces the downtime spent recasting it. This translates to more output elsewhere as well.

With a HR>CH rotation, you gain another CH cast each rotation using Conductivity. This ends up being 3.45% more Chain Heals. Should increase the rotation's output by 8.62%.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9430

The only thing that you gain from Conductivity is having 100% Healing Rain uptime, instead of closer to 80% uptime when you factor in recasting it. That makes it a theoretical 20% increase to HR, or about a 4%-6% overall throughput increase on most fights.

Increasing the duration of HR reduces the downtime spent recasting it. This translates to more output elsewhere as well.

With a HR>CH rotation, you gain another CH cast each rotation using Conductivity.

You lose the burst healing from HTT though, which is crucial in heroic modes.
Edited by Fewì on 6/20/2013 6:45 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
06/20/2013 06:41 PMPosted by Aurinaux
The only thing that you gain from Conductivity is having 100% Healing Rain uptime, instead of closer to 80% uptime when you factor in recasting it. That makes it a theoretical 20% increase to HR, or about a 4%-6% overall throughput increase on most fights.


Increasing the duration of HR reduces the downtime spent recasting it. This translates to more output elsewhere as well.

With a HR>CH rotation, you gain another CH cast each rotation using Conductivity. This ends up being 3.45% more Chain Heals. Should increase the rotation's output by 8.62%.


Right, but that is assuming that the rotation is entirely mana neutral and that you are able to afford those extra Chain Heals. HTT is on average 10% throughput, and the throughput that it gives you is more valuable than more HR/CH throughput, because it is burst and a raid cooldown. I can not see Conductivity being worth even considering dropping HTT for unless it's at least a 15% throughput increase.
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100 Dwarf Priest
8440
06/20/2013 06:41 PMPosted by Aurinaux
The only thing that you gain from Conductivity is having 100% Healing Rain uptime, instead of closer to 80% uptime when you factor in recasting it. That makes it a theoretical 20% increase to HR, or about a 4%-6% overall throughput increase on most fights.


Increasing the duration of HR reduces the downtime spent recasting it. This translates to more output elsewhere as well.

With a HR>CH rotation, you gain another CH cast each rotation using Conductivity. This ends up being 3.45% more Chain Heals. Should increase the rotation's output by 8.62%.


It also saves you some mana too. Haven't played my Shaman in a while, but from what I remember, Healing Rain is pretty expensive.
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