Did we just lose our snare on judgements?

100 Blood Elf Paladin
17415
Oh, and this for fears:

Fears cast by players no longer increases the target's movement speed.


Just when Paladins finally got ours. :P
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17415
Personally, I think the slow was hugely useful. I'm going to really, really miss it.


It was, especially in PvE, but we'll at least have Justice. They may even tack on the snare to Judgment finally to make up for it - once upon a time, it worked. If not, it's still not a huge, significant loss compared to the tradeoff.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17415


It was, especially in PvE, but we'll at least have Justice. They may even tack on the snare to Judgment finally to make up for it - once upon a time, it worked. If not, it's still not a huge, significant loss compared to the tradeoff.


I don't like the idea of seal-swapping eating a GCD in 1 v 1 situations. It just adds a level of obnoxiousness to combat I didn't want. While the fear is useful, I'm not sure how helpful it will be against ranged classes with spammable snares, like hunters and mages. I have kiting nightmares already.


Many snares eat a GCD anyway, and at least the damage tradeoff with Justice on isn't so bad (personally, I prefer just keeping it on these days and putting the pressure on SoT when I really need to - 1.5 seconds isn't such a huge deal). And really, in a 1v1 situation, would you be taking the Fear or the 30 second instant ranged stun? Even in those situations, the Fear's a decent way of giving yourself a reset when things are going south - and with Unbreakable Spirit redesigned to flatly reduce our defensive cooldowns by 50%, that extra breathing time can only help.
Edited by Jackishi on 6/12/2013 11:37 AM PDT
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85 Human Priest
4015
Eh, I dislike it.

I wish it could have been a glyph instead. I have huge latency issues, and staying to target is hard. The most forgiving melee class for me was Paladin, exactly because of that talent. I don't like ranged classes, so looks like I'll have to take a look at monks :/

Also, no, Justice doesn't cut it for me because if I can't even GET to the target, i'll be hard pressed to even land a hit to apply a snare. Also, justice doesn't apply an all-useful dot to keep rogues in check, etc.

I really, really dislike this.
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100 Orc Death Knight
18860
I have a feeling retribution is going to gain BoG passively in some form.
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100 Dwarf Rogue
6670
I'm a huge fan of Burden of Guilt in it's current state and I think removing it is a terrible idea.

Nothing is more frustrating as a paladin than being kited into oblivion.

The only way this would be acceptable is if they made seal of justice proc off of judgement. If not, I will simply not play the class anymore.
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90 Human Paladin
6620
Why not turn it into a rooted fear? That way, the loss of burden can be made up by just fearing the target while you catch up.

Though personally, I haven't used Burden a lot. Maybe for Strand of the Ancients. FoJ is too good.
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100 Dwarf Rogue
6670
No matter how I look at it, a fear mechanic is going to be a lot more potent than a ranged snare.


Fixed.
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100 Human Paladin
13775
06/12/2013 07:31 AMPosted by Grôgnárd
Name another dps that has to spend their damage to keep up a buff with a max 30 second duration and no other refreshers.


The classes with such a buff and refreshers also have other mandatory, damage-oriented things to do with their resources - and resource costs other than charges.

But we don't. We generate charges and either deal damage. Sure, we can heal, but why waste Holy Power healing when you can drop a demi-LoH via Selfless Healer without wasting HoPo?

We do not need this change for PvE; in PvP, maybe - but it should be added in as a PvP set bonus to alleviate the problems with Inq where they may actually exist.


I agree with you, and I don't like to see this change, but lets be real here, if one uses an addon such as InlineAura, resource management on a rogue is no different than just managing cooldowns on any other class. Everything is tracked directly on your action bar, so it feels like you are just managing a bunch of cooldowns, rather than buffs/debuffs/resources/etc.
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100 Human Paladin
16250
Burden of Guilt was my favorite talent. It allowed me to kite Warriors and Death Knights and was my closer for Hunters, Mages and Warlocks. The fear is nice and all, but I'd have rather we traded one of the other Talents for it.

And Seal of Justice is crap. You have to melee someone to slow them? That's counter-intuitive as both a kiting ability and a gap closer.
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100 Human Paladin
19650
I think this might be a pretty big loss, unless everyone can get snares/slows from other sources. I can see us being kited into oblivion, and completely unable to catch more mobile healers.
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100 Draenei Paladin
11395
I get the impression that everyone saying that BoG was a crap talent solely plays RET. Especially that lvl 1 orc warrior...

Holy paladin should not be the only healing class without a slow/snare of some kind. We don't have SoJ (and I hope it stays that way - don't want to spend a global to change seals to then have to hit a target in melee to only then have to try and get some distance away from the attacker, again).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14055
I get the impression that everyone saying that BoG was a crap talent solely plays RET. Especially that lvl 1 orc warrior...

Holy paladin should not be the only healing class without a slow/snare of some kind. We don't have SoJ (and I hope it stays that way - don't want to spend a global to change seals to then have to hit a target in melee to only then have to try and get some distance away from the attacker, again).


If you're using burden of guilt as holy you're even more stupid. Words can't describe how inferior it is to repentance and fist of justice.
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100 Draenei Paladin
11395
In Arenas and against casters, your "stupid" might apply...

However, a 6 second stun / 30 second cooldown does nothing for me in the larger engagements and certainly not against multiple opponents simultaneously. Rogue / warrior / ret pairings seem to have nothing better to do than focus the paladin healer in the background and I need to be able to deal with them all.

I prefer the 50% movement debuff to attacking players vs. the CC subjected to DRs. The slow provided by Burden of Guilt, combined with Pursuit of Justice (15-30% personal speed increase) and Hand of Freedom x2 via Clemency is the best option for me. Judgment is a 6 second cooldown, so TAB-targeting allows me to affect multiple attacks vs. the single target, longer cooldown that Burden of Guilt will become in 5.4. This allows me to peel for myself and/or my FC rather than hope one of my dps gets the job done.

Can't tell you how many times I've had warriors / dks just simply give up after trying to run me down. I'll take that over a 30 second stun any day.

EDIT: Not to mention that regardless of your opinion on BoG's viability, I still want a GD snare available to me for general, all-purpose use - like every other class in the game.
Edited by Solamnus on 6/13/2013 10:21 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17415
Burden of Guilt was my favorite talent. It allowed me to kite Warriors and Death Knights and was my closer for Hunters, Mages and Warlocks. The fear is nice and all, but I'd have rather we traded one of the other Talents for it.

And Seal of Justice is crap. You have to melee someone to slow them? That's counter-intuitive as both a kiting ability and a gap closer.


...How do you explain Hamstring and Crippling Poison then...? To be fair, Crippling Poison can be applied via a ranged attack, but that ranged attack takes up resources...
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