5.4 Resto Druid

90 Night Elf Druid
9605
No glyph to mess around with yet, I'll see about that when there is. From the wording, it sounds like you can literally have permanent efflorescence up.... which isn't THAT strong, but still not too bad.

Wrath mana cost went way up, so atonement healing isn't quite as feasible without losing mana. It's also hardly that much healing... very weak compared to REAL atonement.

The way I'm seeing it is... Just basically count the healing the shrooms do to your efflo heal. Just consider them tied together instead of separate.

The actual wording of the ability is very messed up. The final product just can't be what the spell sounds like it's going to be.

We'll find out soon enough. I want druids to be valid so I can still play one, but the shrooms thing was a huge blow... really bummed.
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
If the final product is that detonating the shroom triggers the efflo they may as well delete Druids from the game. Or rather simply nobody will ever touch the glyph.

Other than that, what else could it be with that tortured wording? Given how insanely powerful the current iteration of some Healer tier bonuses is, and the black hole of awful that the Resto Bonuses are... and that the shroom changes are apparently a huge nerf... nothing about the other changes is overboard at all. We're still behind with super shrooms this tier (though not as far - and at this stage it's more that Paladin and Disc are far more valuable for other reasons that need to be addressed as well).
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90 Worgen Druid
7090
If the final product is that detonating the shroom triggers the efflo they may as well delete Druids from the game. Or rather simply nobody will ever touch the glyph.

Other than that, what else could it be with that tortured wording? Given how insanely powerful the current iteration of some Healer tier bonuses is, and the black hole of awful that the Resto Bonuses are... and that the shroom changes are apparently a huge nerf... nothing about the other changes is overboard at all. We're still behind with super shrooms this tier (though not as far - and at this stage it's more that Paladin and Disc are far more valuable for other reasons that need to be addressed as well).


Deleting druids over the function of a glyph that would still be useful in some situations!? Exaggerate much? The 4p bonus is rather perplexing (especially if living seed stays the way it is). I can only guess that they are trying to gauge the power behind genesis, moveable one drop mushrooms, and the new talent before they overdo it by giving druids good set bonuses. They want us to feel awesome at healing tanks it seems (which may not be a bad thing if you want to take over tank duty and let your co-healers aoe more)
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90 Troll Druid
10000
Testing PTR, shrooms now split per person

spell was nerfed.. HARD nerf. They're garbage compared to current form.

I get the heal up to 1.1million. It will hit 1 target for 1.2 mil, or 2 targets for 600k, 3 for 400k, 4 for 300k.


It already splits per person on live. The difference right now is that mushrooms absorb 150% of overhealing (which is op and bad design anyway) and then have their healing multiplied by our mastery and naturalist... double-dipping in stats like that (since the amount they absorb is impacted by mastery & naturalist) is also bad design.

I agree that it was a pretty sizeable nerf to mushrooms as a raidwide burst healing mechanic - they stack more slowly, give less potential coverage due to being at one location instead of up to three, and cap at a lower amount because the absorbed amount won't benefit from mastery (this last bit I'm a little unhappy with, because the wording of the change indicated that mastery+naturalist were going to be taken out the absorbed healing, rather than the bloom, which would give mushrooms the same cap but require more time to charge them to full). I'd still be hard-pressed to call the current PTR iteration of mushrooms useless, though.

Don't forget that PTR currently isn't awarding us stats for any of our gems.

Edit: Efflo glyph says triggered by Wild Mushroom, not Wild Mushroom: Bloom. I'm holding out hope for perma-efflo (even though it'd get nerfed).
Edited by Frozenorange on 6/15/2013 10:27 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
8680
If the final product is that detonating the shroom triggers the efflo they may as well delete Druids from the game. Or rather simply nobody will ever touch the glyph.

Other than that, what else could it be with that tortured wording? Given how insanely powerful the current iteration of some Healer tier bonuses is, and the black hole of awful that the Resto Bonuses are... and that the shroom changes are apparently a huge nerf... nothing about the other changes is overboard at all. We're still behind with super shrooms this tier (though not as far - and at this stage it's more that Paladin and Disc are far more valuable for other reasons that need to be addressed as well).


Deleting druids over the function of a glyph that would still be useful in some situations!? Exaggerate much?


Explain to me how, in a 10man raid where shroom bloom brings everyone to full health, having bloom trigger efflo would ever be useful?

That's like casting tranquility after after your priest just used diving hymn on the same mechanic.

Overheal much? If the goal is to overheal, damn we're going to be overpowered. Which we already are in that regard.
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90 Worgen Druid
7090


Deleting druids over the function of a glyph that would still be useful in some situations!? Exaggerate much?


Explain to me how, in a 10man raid where shroom bloom brings everyone to full health, having bloom trigger efflo would ever be useful?

That's like casting tranquility after after your priest just used diving hymn on the same mechanic.

Overheal much? If the goal is to overheal, damn we're going to be overpowered. Which we already are in that regard.


In stack situations it would free up a global cooldown and it still unties swiftmend from efflo leaving it available to be used as you please. Best example this tier would be heroic megeara rampage when you blow your shrooms and there can still be plenty of healing to be done (you may also need to blow your shrooms quickly if things are getting messy as rampage starts).

Also, you could have efflorescence on the ground more often since mushrooms are on a 10 second cooldown while swiftmend is on a 15 second cooldown. This is probably the best argument here since freeing up a GCD and keeping swiftmend available for use when you need it are not that compelling of reasons that the glyph could be of use. There is a small trade off with this though since you would limit your capacity to have a well filled shroom for burst purposes if you are trying to get efflo on the ground constantly, but you'd probably just fill them to full, bloom them for stack, and rebloom them in 10 seconds to get efflo on the ground quickly.

Why are you obsessing over this? I somehow feel the person saying the entire druid class should be deleted because of the way that one glyph (that we haven't even gotten yet) could potentially turn out, for one spec, is a bit more outlandish than my claim that the glyph could have situational use if it was based off of the bloom.
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
It's like you can't even read the next sentence. But carry on.

And compared to what some of the healers are getting, permanent efflo is not really OP. Even less so if you ever bother dropping 2pc T15 (but why on earth would you?). It would really help in 25s.
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90 Troll Druid
18085
Testing PTR, shrooms now split per person

spell was nerfed.. HARD nerf. They're garbage compared to current form.

I get the heal up to 1.1million. It will hit 1 target for 1.2 mil, or 2 targets for 600k, 3 for 400k, 4 for 300k.


It already splits per person on live. The difference right now is that mushrooms absorb 150% of overhealing (which is op and bad design anyway) and then have their healing multiplied by our mastery and naturalist... double-dipping in stats like that (since the amount they absorb is impacted by mastery & naturalist) is also bad design.

I agree that it was a pretty sizeable nerf to mushrooms as a raidwide burst healing mechanic - they stack more slowly, give less potential coverage due to being at one location instead of up to three, and cap at a lower amount because the absorbed amount won't benefit from mastery (this last bit I'm a little unhappy with, because the wording of the change indicated that mastery+naturalist were going to be taken out the absorbed healing, rather than the bloom, which would give mushrooms the same cap but require more time to charge them to full). I'd still be hard-pressed to call the current PTR iteration of mushrooms useless, though.

Don't forget that PTR currently isn't awarding us stats for any of our gems.

Edit: Efflo glyph says triggered by Wild Mushroom, not Wild Mushroom: Bloom. I'm holding out hope for perma-efflo (even though it'd get nerfed).


WM no longer crits in 5.4 either.

I'm certain these numbers aren't finalized yet, it's only the first build of the PTR. I can't say I'd be upset about the changes if they went to live as is; the practicality of the new shrooms makes it incredibly easy for it to be a tank LoH, or an AoE on the raid.

I also never used it unless on Ji-kun or Megaera, but the ease of mechanics make it incredibly desired to make sure it's up at all times.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9605
[quote]
Edit: Efflo glyph says triggered by Wild Mushroom, not Wild Mushroom: Bloom. I'm holding out hope for perma-efflo (even though it'd get nerfed).


Yeah that's where I think the wording is messed up, unless it isn't and would be perma-efflor.

You're right, the bonus healing from shrooms always split per person. I think the testing I did to check that was just a lucky critical strike so I assumed on 2 people that it didn't on live... lol

The rate of charge is so frustrating, but.... I think blizzard assumes you'll use genesis, which certainly charges things super super quick.... I really need a raid to test this out on because I think I can maybe make it viable.

The spell might actually be more of a useful spell as just its own gcd. Hitting around 60k (raid buffed guess) on all 10 people for one gcd is a strong spell IMO. It might just be a nice little kick to hit on melee for 25m players. I guess we'll see ;(
Edited by Gamex on 6/16/2013 5:26 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
8680


Why are you obsessing over this? I somehow feel the person saying the entire druid class should be deleted because of the way that one glyph (that we haven't even gotten yet) could potentially turn out, for one spec, is a bit more outlandish than my claim that the glyph could have situational use if it was based off of the bloom.


Nono, I think you misunderstand me here; I'm stating that the design of it triggering from bloom is you (or whoever) misinterpreting the patch notes and/or thinking that would be useful.

New Glyph: Glyph of Efflorescence increases the healing done by Swiftmend by 20%, causes the Efflorescence healing effect to be triggered by Wild Mushroom instead of Swiftmend, and lasts as long as the Wild Mushroom is active.

My point of whether or not it would be useful to have efflo trigger from Bloom I believe is completely valid; We cast swiftmend on cooldown because it's part of our bread and butter.
Proccing it from bloom would not make it "permanent" first off, but would also be essentially a reduction in cd for SM on live.
Which in and of itself would be yet another huge nerf to shrooms. Why? Because you're going to have to bloom that to proc efflo on cooldown (10seconds) and in 10seconds, you will NEVER charge up shrooms. Ever.

With the nerf to shrooms ( -Naturalist - Mastery - crit) they're utter garbage uncharged. You need them charged.
Edited by Tonydanza on 6/16/2013 8:03 AM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
10000
With the nerf to shrooms ( -Naturalist - Mastery - crit) they're utter garbage uncharged. You need them charged.


I'm going to have to vehemently disagree. Base mushroom has gained an immense amount of power simply from saving 2 GCDs and not being ground-targetted. Even uncharged, planting and immediately blooming is a 75k instant aoe (6target softcap before DR) heal, for the cost of for 6.1k mana and on a 10s CD.

That's roughly the same amount as swiftmend's instant heal. It's also roughly the same as efflo's total HoT per target. In other words, it's pretty comparable to a direct heal version of swiftmend+efflo. The major differences are that it's 6-target instead of 4 [5 with 2p t15], proportionally higher (but still incredibly low) mana cost, with no requirement for an active rejuv/regrowth. Oh, and 2/3 the cooldown.

For another comparison, it's roughly 3x the power of CoH for 2/3 the cost. If it were a smart heal and/or had more than a 10-yd radius, it'd be overpowered.
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
My base swiftmend is over 100k at this point. At least on a tank.
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
I'll also just say the new targeting system sounds TRULY TERRIBLE. It would be one thing of the Mushrooms stayed on the person you cast. It's another thing entirely to have to hope someone is where you want them, when you want them. I can't help but think of having to have someone babysit my shrooms on Megaera after every rampage. DO NOT WANT.
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90 Troll Druid
10000
06/16/2013 09:05 AMPosted by Eleäzaras
My base swiftmend is over 100k at this point. At least on a tank.


I'm comparing motw-only on live to motw-only on PTR. Note that PTR stats don't include gems right now so they'd translate to be higher than the number I gave.

I'll also just say the new targeting system sounds TRULY TERRIBLE. It would be one thing of the Mushrooms stayed on the person you cast. It's another thing entirely to have to hope someone is where you want them, when you want them. I can't help but think of having to have someone babysit my shrooms on Megaera after every rampage. DO NOT WANT.


The mushroom stays on the floor where the person was when you casted it, and it doesn't lose the stack when you recast it. If glyph of perma-efflo is true, then it will be worthwhile to put the mushroom somewhere efflo will be useful and then just move it to the stack point afterward. Note that you can /tar Wild Mushroom /cast Wild Mushroom: Bloom /Cast Wild Mushroom to preserve mushroom location even if you want to use the bloom.
Edited by Frozenorange on 6/16/2013 9:14 AM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
18085
I'll also just say the new targeting system sounds TRULY TERRIBLE. It would be one thing of the Mushrooms stayed on the person you cast. It's another thing entirely to have to hope someone is where you want them, when you want them. I can't help but think of having to have someone babysit my shrooms on Megaera after every rampage. DO NOT WANT.


I think I'll relocate my shroom everytime before using them for safe measure
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90 Troll Druid
10000
I think I'll relocate my shroom everytime before using them for safe measure


Word of forewarning: don't /tar mouseover /cast Wild Mushroom /cast Wild Mushroom Bloom.
Instead, use a castsequence macro and mash it twice. Currently on PTR it takes a moment for the mushroom's absorbed heal value to update, and if you use a one-button macro for it, it won't bloom for the additional value (and you'll also lose your stored healing for the next mushroom).

Also /cast [@mouseover] Wild Mushroom doesn't currently work.
Edited by Frozenorange on 6/16/2013 9:26 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
8680
06/16/2013 08:40 AMPosted by Frozenorange
With the nerf to shrooms ( -Naturalist - Mastery - crit) they're utter garbage uncharged. You need them charged.


I'm going to have to vehemently disagree. Base mushroom has gained an immense amount of power simply from saving 2 GCDs and not being ground-targetted. Even uncharged, planting and immediately blooming is a 75k instant aoe (6target softcap before DR) heal, for the cost of for 6.1k mana and on a 10s CD.

That's roughly the same amount as swiftmend's instant heal. It's also roughly the same as efflo's total HoT per target. In other words, it's pretty comparable to a direct heal version of swiftmend+efflo. The major differences are that it's 6-target instead of 4 [5 with 2p t15], proportionally higher (but still incredibly low) mana cost, with no requirement for an active rejuv/regrowth. Oh, and 2/3 the cooldown.

For another comparison, it's roughly 3x the power of CoH for 2/3 the cost. If it were a smart heal and/or had more than a 10-yd radius, it'd be overpowered.


Ok, fair enough.

But then again...that would seem to contradict the design purpose of shrooms. Big burst raid heal that was never ever supposed to be rotational.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9605
I think it will come down to (picture magaera) mass raid dmg inc, rejuve spams go up, plop a shroom, use genesis, start more rejuves and pop shrooms at any point where someone gets low. You wouldn't max the shroom but you'd get that 400% genesis hasted boost from the rejuves.

Also, your first shroom will always be charged over a million pre-pull, then you can place for mass heals at any point before doing the rotation I described above.

Seems like it makes sense... just trying to picture practical use.
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90 Worgen Druid
7090
Honestly, if it's going to accumulate even if you move it then it seems like we should just have it as a resource that builds up even if a mushroom isn't set back down on the ground immediately following a bloom. That doesn't necessarily make sense though and resetting and moving mushroom isn't hard so I don't see it happening.

Were our tank heals lacking noticeably? They seem to want to make us premier tank watchers with always available 20% enhanced swiftmend and 80% living seed for a 4p. "Regrowth the tank more druid, gawd!" Regrowth is going to be like 250k heal including the seed depending on how often the 4p procs. I need to get more heroic pieces so I can delay collecting my t16 ; /
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
06/16/2013 12:35 PMPosted by Stratas
They seem to want to make us premier tank watchers with always available 20% enhanced swiftmend and 80% living seed for a 4p.

Omg I already do this :(
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