[Feral] T16 Set Bonus Discussion

90 Tauren Druid
17785
How about the following set bonuses?

2pc: Your Thrash spreads your Rake and Rip to up to five affected targets.

4pc: Tiger's Fury increases the damage taken by the target by 25% for 10 seconds or the next two abilities.

The 2p is unbelievably OP in any multi target situation. This would also be required in RBG's by how powerful it would be. Even if it was just Rake it would be insane. If it single target the bonus would be useless.

Tigers Fury already increases our damagae by 15%. Not very exciting stacking more of it on there (also super OP).
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90 Tauren Druid
14540

I think the spirit of the 4pc is solid: having an extra finisher near every TF is a great, it synergizes well with SotF and DoC, and could be awesome if the cooldown-reducing trinket ends up being good for us. It's just getting 5cp immediately upon activating TF makes it very tricky to use, and as Pawkets described, "muscle memory shattering."

Our feedback should be focused solely on that element:
"5cp after activating TF doesn't work because X, Y, and Z"


The problem with those cooldown trinkets is that feral doesn't have powerful cooldowns to reduce. Right now it reduces TF and our 3 defensive cooldowns. Berserk could be added, but thats about it dps-wise. The trinkets are also designed to not affect talents, which is good, but also rules out incarnation/NV.
Edited by Kraineth on 6/30/2013 10:16 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
12480
4T16 + Trinket 39% increased CD Recovery rate on TF (30/1.39 = 21.58s cd).

Has an extremely good synergy, but then makes the trinket mandatory.

I don't agree that needing 5 pieces of loot to have a working "set bonus" is good design.

In terms of the 2p bonus, Blizzard's hands are basically tied:
If they don't increase Mangle/Shred damage, we will face the problem that we had in t13 just before MoP hit, which is that people will use Rake as the main combo generator since it's on-hit DPE will exceed Mangle/Shred DPE.
Edited by Robosaurus on 7/3/2013 1:53 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
14540
39% has to be placeholder, because the actual datamined procs don't match. And 39% reduced cd on stuff like avenging wrath, guardian of ancient kings, barrier, spirit shell, and bestial wrath is a bit OP. Iirc the actual effect is 16%. And it won't become mandatory, because agi procs alongside Rune of Re-origination is what is currently making feral good.

As far as shred/mangle vs rake, Iirc rake is already hitting harder initially than mangle/shred during RoR procs, just slightly. So i doubt rake will be our main cp generator at any attainable mastery levels outside of procs.

Comparing current 2pc to Windwalker 2 pc, both are exact copies.
Windwalker: Combo Breaker: Tiger Palm increases the damage of Tiger Palm by 50%. Combo Breaker: Blackout Kick increases the damage of Blackout Kick by 50%.

But Blackout kick/tiger's palm make up a much greater portion of their overall dps.

And just announced today:
Our New 4pc: After using Tiger's Fury, your next finishing move will restore 5 combo points on your current target after being used.

This change makes the bonus 100% more useable. It does remove the ability to be used for target swapping however. Overall it is a good change that I am happy to see.
Edited by Kraineth on 7/3/2013 2:36 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
15835
This change makes the bonus 100% more useable. It does remove the ability to be used for target swapping however. Overall it is a good change that I am happy to see.

Not necessarily; it depends on how exactly the target is picked. The tooltip implies it puts the combo points on your current target, not the target of your finisher. You'll almost definitely still be able to generate the CP on a new target with SR, and it's also possible you may be able to do the same with Rip or FB with a macro.

I would test it but currently on PTR the bonus is unchanged (the set bonus text says it what it's in the newest datamined build but it still works the old way).
Edited by Pawkets on 7/3/2013 3:18 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
15835
07/03/2013 02:33 PMPosted by Kraineth
As far as shred/mangle vs rake, Iirc rake is already hitting harder initially than mangle/shred during RoR procs, just slightly. So i doubt rake will be our main cp generator at any attainable mastery levels outside of procs.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if there's a gearing point (either obtainable now or in the soon future) where Rake does more damage than a Mangle, but that doesn't mean you would stop using Mangle.
Edited by Pawkets on 7/3/2013 3:25 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
17785
You wouldn't even need to put a combo point on your new target. As long as you have the new target selected you could use SR and consume the combo points on your previous target and 5 will be put on your current target. This should work even if your old target is dead (as long as they didn't despawn).
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90 Tauren Druid
17785
07/03/2013 03:23 PMPosted by Pawkets
As far as shred/mangle vs rake, Iirc rake is already hitting harder initially than mangle/shred during RoR procs, just slightly. So i doubt rake will be our main cp generator at any attainable mastery levels outside of procs.

Rake hits far harder than Shred or Mangle during RoR, it's not even close.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if there's a gearing point (either obtainable now or in the soon future) where Rake does more damage than a Mangle, but that also doesn't mean you would stop using Mangle.

Ya we still need to use Mangle/Shred to extend our Rip, and we would hardly want to over write a Rune proc Rake after the Rune buff drops. I don't see us changing a bunch how we use our combo point builders, just that the Rake bleed will continue to be our highest damaging ability 90% of the time (just more so).
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90 Worgen Druid
15685
Based on the wording it sounds like you could indeed use a macro to cast rip/bite on something other than your target and thereby generate CP on your target. But I don't think that's a good thing. We shouldn't need to use macros like that for optimal performance.

But that's something to worry about once we get to test the new bonus.

Edit-

As a side note, the t15 2-piece works this way: the combo point is generated on your current target, not the target of your finisher. But Anticipation (rogue) generates the combo points on the target of the finisher.
Edited by Stenhaldi on 7/3/2013 3:39 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
15835
But I don't think that's a good thing. We shouldn't need to use macros like that for optimal performance.

But that's something to worry about once we get to test the new bonus.

Those were my thoughts as well. While I wouldn't mind the ability for it to work like that but it's still bad design. We'll know soon enough when the bonus actually works.

PS:
There was a PTR realm restart (at least on Anasterian) and I tested it afterward and it still doesn't work. I have submitted a bug report.
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90 Night Elf Druid
19195
Just wanted to add a voice to the /dislike pile for the new 2 piece bonus.

Some alternative set bonuses ideas:
- some low % proc on bleeds to double tick
- a bonus to crit on mangle/shred to improve cp generation
- extend the duration of rake 3 or 6 seconds
- tiger's fury now increases dmg by 20-25% for 3 seconds instead of 15%
- ferocious bite costs less initial energy or consumes less additional energy to reach max dmg
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