cmon knee jerk

8 Goblin Warrior
0
06/15/2013 12:00 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
I love how you interject PvP in a PvE thread. Isn't Elemental doing about the same or even more than BM is in threes?


It is and every tuesday that goes by without significant nerfs to elemental is a day i /facepalm at blizzard.

Granted ele is in the same spot as hunters in PVE, very meh, so they cant really nerf ele damage or bm pvp damage without making them worse in pve.

But they also cant buff ele in pve and expect it to not make it even sillier in pvp. Its all connected and to discuss damage in one aspect of the game you have to discuss damage in all aspects.
I see the point, figured it about five minutes after I made that post. I know I am ignorant on the subject of programing but is there an easier way to change the scaling of PvP Power to adjust the PvE issues?
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The only thing we need is a mobility nerf, we have 100% mobility and cannot be interrupted. Every other range class is immobile most the time.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
18440
The only thing we need is a mobility nerf, we have 100% mobility and cannot be interrupted. Every other range class is immobile most the time.


Yes, let's go back to being pillar humped to death while trying to replenish resources for shots that have both a cost AND a CD. Perhaps we can get our minimum range back too, so that we can once again get screwed into not grouping up with the rest of the raid during boss fights.
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06/14/2013 01:48 PMPosted by Ilke
so i heard it only takes 2 days to buff mages when they are under preforming. so here's your rubber mallet.


And yet it took them months to notice that most warlocks were taking KJC because the other two options at lvl 90 talent sucked. And so now they decide to change how the class is played again and yet again. If not for my friends in game here, I would be playing Everquest 2 a great deal more.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
18440
And yet it took them months to notice that most warlocks were taking KJC because the other two options at lvl 90 talent sucked. And so now they decide to change how the class is played again and yet again. If not for my friends in game here, I would be playing Everquest 2 a great deal more.


You complaint, the way you present it, suggests that your upset it took so long to propose warlock changes. I'm certain you're complaining that your class is being nerfed, which is understandable.

It's because trends don't appear all on a same schedule. Some can be apparent immediately, some take time to identify.

Also, Warlocks probably had been under scrutiny for a while. They were proving strong in PvP and PvE and I'm sure Blizzard was considering changes before they picked what they were going to change.

To suggest that all this is happening because KJC was stronger than the other two talents in the tier is to completely misunderstand how this game is balanced.
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
To suggest that all this is happening because KJC was stronger than the other two talents in the tier is to completely misunderstand how this game is balanced.


This is exactly why the warlock l90 talents are being changed. Blizz has repeatedly said they don't want "must-have" talents in the new system. If warlocks are taking KJC 90+% of the time there is a problem (in Blizzard's view). The difference here is they are trying to equalize the talents without overly nerfing dps performance which is a lot trickier than just boosting/nerfing damage which is what mages got in the infamous 4 day hot-fix.

There are specs/classes that can rightfully gripe about mages getting buffed after 4 days while they waited entire patch cycles for any sort of buff but Blizz is right (IMO) to make changes like those to the warlock l90 talents and the paladin healing talents over the course of a PTR cycle instead of in a hot-fix.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
18440
I said "all of this is happening" which was a vague, and poorly worded way of saying that everything that is being changed about warlocks, is not because a single talent in one tier was so much more popular than the other two.

Here's practically all I need to know about warlocks:

The lock in my guild can pull something like 30 mobs in the barrens, tank them all and mow them all down in next to no time.

Not only do I not have the steady flow of resources (I need to constantly cobra shot in order to maintain my AoE) in order to easily gather that many mobs, there's no chance in hell that me or my pet would survive that many mobs attacking us, and even if we did it would take me considerably longer to kill them all.

I don't want anybody's fun nerfed but warlocks are just too well crafted for the state of the game currently. Do most warlocks feel like they were shortchanged a talent tier because KJC was such a go-to choice?
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90 Troll Warlock
11030

Here's practically all I need to know about warlocks:

The lock in my guild can pull something like 30 mobs in the barrens, tank them all and mow them all down in next to no time.

Not only do I not have the steady flow of resources (I need to constantly cobra shot in order to maintain my AoE) in order to easily gather that many mobs, there's no chance in hell that me or my pet would survive that many mobs attacking us, and even if we did it would take me considerably longer to kill them all.

I don't want anybody's fun nerfed but warlocks are just too well crafted for the state of the game currently. Do most warlocks feel like they were shortchanged a talent tier because KJC was such a go-to choice?


Warlocks are still going to be able to this. And if you're farming that many mobs odds are you're using Mannoroth's Fury and not KJC. Our farming prowess is only gonna be slightly more annoying the the MF nerf, but we'll still be mowing down 30+ mobs like it's nothing.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
18440
Warlocks are still going to be able to this. And if you're farming that many mobs odds are you're using Mannoroth's Fury and not KJC. Our farming prowess is only gonna be slightly more annoying the the MF nerf, but we'll still be mowing down 30+ mobs like it's nothing.


I realize they will, and I'm not upset that they can. But I do think it highlights an efficiency of design that is too good in comparison to other classes. The class design vector and the encounter design vector seems to have converged at the sweet spot for locks.

I think my point was to illustrate how little it has to do with skill, and how few classes have the entire toolset to perform even that relatively innocuous task.

Way back in the day I remember a skilled frost mage on my server used to farm Tyr's Hand elites for hours on end. He was in UBRS blues, etc, and would get munched hard if he was caught. But if he wasn't caught, he could carefully round up tons of them and kite them to death. The difference is that it took clever use of abilities and careful decision-making, not blind button mashing and facetanking while using survival buttons to outlast a bunch of overfed trash mobs.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
so i heard it only takes 2 days to buff mages when they are under preforming. so here's your rubber mallet. hunter dps is garbage on every single fight.


Your class's DPS is better than mine.
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90 Human Death Knight
12620
06/14/2013 02:13 PMPosted by Zomgdps
as most feedback towards it has been negative from a "fun" PoV.

Bingo!

Though I wonder. If Hunters were top dps, would people scramble to get hunter mobility nerfed?

I fully believe that one of the reasons people are QQing hard about Lock mobility is because they also have top-top DPS.

But hunters prove that mobility does not automatically equal big DPS. If only people could see that and realize that nerfing Lock mobility is not really the solution to reducing their DPS.

Sure.. it will nerf their DPS, but it will nerf their 'fun' much more, and there are other ways to nerf DPS while keeping 'fun' constant (i.e not removing their mobility).

But alas, the decision seems to be made now (esp with the recent blue post), and somehow the devs think that its Lock mobility that is the root of all evil. *shrugs*

Aside though, Hunters need a lot of work imho specifically around this 'fun' concept and a real, markable difference in how the three specs play (since right now, they are almost identical). Sure.. BM has strong pets - but that is really a numerical difference.

There is little "actual" difference in how BM plays. I still hit my spec specific shot on CD, use my focus regen ability, and blow my CDs when needed.

In fact, picking different talents has a larger effect on the mechanics of my rotation compared to picking different specs.

This should not be the case.


Hunter are #2 and #3 on the 2 final fights this tier, which both involve very important movement, lei shen and raden.

Although they do fall all the way down to 5, behind 2 mage specs and 3 classes that get half their damage from dots on ra-den 25 where the individual movement isn't as frequent.
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90 Human Death Knight
12620
by which I mean call me when your only 2 dps specs are 2 of the bottom 5 on both the endboss and the optional heroic boss of a tier
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