Fel Flame, the warlock Scorch? No thanks

90 Troll Druid
15265
Does this make Cobra shot the hunter scorch? After all, it produces focus just as scorch produces pyroblasts. God forbid there are 2 spells in this game that fill the same niche. HOMOGENIZATION ahhhh!!!! this game is dead!!!!!1
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1 Human Mage
0
06/18/2013 01:36 PMPosted by Sybhyl
But if not, you're going to have spend the one ember you gained during movement

Ah I see it now... this is the core issue you really have, and tbh, it really has nothing to do with fel flame.

You are still hung up on the fact that they took away our KJC, and the fact that we cannot freely generate embers and do full dps while moving.

Yea, I'm with you, it sucks, but we need to move on and adapt now.

Your issue is that we wont be able to play destro like we do today, and you are correct.

But this fel flame is not the reason for that, they are nerfing lock mobility across the board, there is little we can do here.

They wouldn't nerf our mobile dps only to 'compensate' us through fel flame, that would be pointless.

All we can do is ensure that whatever we do get out of this shift is doesn't just turn us into mages. I want to keep the classes as separate as I can.
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90 Troll Warlock
11450

Oookay.. so it is pretty clear you're one of those "i want to lobby for buffs for my class" locks who is going all hysterical.

Hah, like Blizzard listens to players on this forum. Nope, I'm just stating (correctly) that Demo is less affected by all of these changes. This will naturally lead to everyone playing Demo, and I assume at that point Blizzard will probably nerf Demo/UVLS to get people to play other specs.

edit: In case you aren't familiar with the current state of lock specs, Demo is the best single target as well as the best multidotter (for targets that live a reasonably long time), the best burst AOE, and slightly behind Destro on sustained AOE.

Fast forward to 5.4, Demo is still all of these things but now it's also the most mobile. It doesn't take a genius to see what will happen.

If you're problem is that you cannot do zomgdps while moving at the same time, then yea.. you are about a week late buddy. They are nerfing our mobile DPS. They are not 'compensating' us for it.

This character is somewhere around 8 years old. I think I will manage.

The fact that instant pyros can be casted while moving is quite irrelevant, since DPS is over the course of the whole fight, and I have yet to come up against a fight that is 100% movement (and they will never make a fight like that btw).

It goes to show that Scorch is a better movement mechanic than Fel Flame, which was all I was pointing out to begin with.
Edited by Argument on 6/18/2013 1:43 PM PDT
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1 Human Mage
0
Does this make Cobra shot the hunter scorch? After all, it produces focus just as scorch produces pyroblasts. God forbid there are 2 spells in this game that fill the same niche. HOMOGENIZATION ahhhh!!!! this game is dead!!!!!1

Nope, since if you remove cobra shot from your bars, you will be at a severe loss, why?

Because you do not use cobra shot ONLY while moving. Scorch is ONLY used while moving, plus, it is actually the worst dps option to produce pyro procs.

Fireball/FFB and every other mage spell produces procs too. Cobra is your only way to increase your focus regen.

Please try to think your /rant through before /ranting. Otherwise you just look foolish.
Edited by Zomgdps on 6/18/2013 1:47 PM PDT
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1 Human Mage
0

It goes to show that Scorch is a better movement mechanic than Fel Flame, which was all I was pointing out to begin with.

And if you read the first posts on this thread, I expressly said that which one is 'better' or 'worse' is not even relevant to this discussion.

If you want to QQ about how good mages have it and how bad locks have it, then please, be my guest but do so in another thread.

This thread, as stated, bolded, underlined, and highlighted in numerous places, is that Fel Flame should not be as close to scorch in design function as this new version is.
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90 Troll Warlock
11450
Does this make Cobra shot the hunter scorch? After all, it produces focus just as scorch produces pyroblasts. God forbid there are 2 spells in this game that fill the same niche. HOMOGENIZATION ahhhh!!!! this game is dead!!!!!1

You can't compare Hunters and casters because every hunter spell in the game - other than Cobra/Steady, Aimed Shot, and some talents - is instant cast. Hunter mobility is baked into the entire class. Cobra Shot is not a mobility ability for Hunters.
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90 Troll Warlock
11450
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/347088563348840448
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1 Human Mage
0
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/347088563348840448

For the rest:

We're going to try keeping Fel Flame as an instant, slightly buffed, with no dot refeshing. Intent wasn't to nerf FF on top of nerfing KJC.


So... an instant cast, spammable, nuke that hits 'slightly hard'.

I dunno. We need to see numbers now to make sense of this.

Though I would ask him, why so intent on keeping the no dot refresh thing? Is it just because of the 'snapshotting' issue? I'm sure there is another way around that.
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90 Troll Druid
15265
06/18/2013 01:41 PMPosted by Zomgdps
Does this make Cobra shot the hunter scorch? After all, it produces focus just as scorch produces pyroblasts. God forbid there are 2 spells in this game that fill the same niche. HOMOGENIZATION ahhhh!!!! this game is dead!!!!!1

Nope, since if you remove cobra shot from your bars, you will be at a severe loss, why?

Because you do not use cobra shot ONLY while moving. Scorch is ONLY used while moving, plus, it is actually the worst dps option to produce pyro procs.

Fireball/FFB and every other mage spell produces procs too. Cobra is your only way to increase your focus regen.

Please try to think your /rant through before /ranting. Otherwise you just look foolish.


I was making a stupid comparison for a reason.
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90 Troll Warlock
11450
Though I would ask him, why so intent on keeping the no dot refresh thing? Is it just because of the 'snapshotting' issue? I'm sure there is another way around that.

Yup. The other fix is to extend the duration of the dots without refreshing them; think of how Shred extends Rip's duration (or used to, idk).
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1 Human Mage
0

I was making a stupid comparison for a reason.

You were implying comparing Scorch to the OP version of Fel Flame is like comparing Scorch to Cobra shot.
I showed where you were wrong.

You can either be a good sport about it and move on, or a stubborn one and not.
Your choice, but no one really cares.

Both OP FF and Scorch are 1.5 second spells that are only used while moving and nowhere else.

That being said, all of this is now mute since they have changed FF again.
Edited by Zomgdps on 6/18/2013 2:18 PM PDT
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1 Human Mage
0

Yup. The other fix is to extend the duration of the dots without refreshing them; think of how Shred extends Rip's duration (or used to, idk).

Then let us do it that way, extending durations.

Lets keep FF special please, and lets keep it so there is some use for it outside of 'just movement'.
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90 Troll Druid
15265
That being said, all of this is now mute since they have changed FF again.


You mean like this thread was in the first place?
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100 Human Warlock
14645

Yup. The other fix is to extend the duration of the dots without refreshing them; think of how Shred extends Rip's duration (or used to, idk).

Then let us do it that way, extending durations.

Lets keep FF special please, and lets keep it so there is some use for it outside of 'just movement'.


FF has always been there for when you need to move, or those very few cases where the mob will die in ~5 seconds that you want to keep dots up and dps is still important. Asking for more is just asking for buffs by now.

Taking that away makes it into a usable ability while moving, instead of the current stance where 99% of the time you wouldn't want to use it.
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100 Worgen Mage
12940
You are still missing the point.

-Generating embers is slow and does nothing to add to DPS while moving. Chaos Bolt cannot be cast while moving.
...


Casting fel flame to generate embers while moving might not boost your dps while moving... but it does boost your dps after you stop.

There are very few fights in the game where prolonged periods of movement are required. Most fights that require movement don't require more than 5-10 seconds at a time. Many fights you can get away with less than 2 seconds of movement at a time.

Also, the fights that require prolonged movement, such as Durumu maze phase, don't happen very often. The nerfed version of KJC with its 1 minute cooldown will mostly take care of those fights.

The other thing is you're comparing the most mobile mage spec "fire" to what might become the least mobile warlock specs. If you really need mobility for a particular fight wouldn't you just respec to the most mobile warlock spec... just as a mage would have to do? Demonology with the new KJC sounds like it should more than handle all PVE mobility needs.

If you want to have a fair comparison, try comparing the least mobile mage spec to the least mobile warlock spec! An arcane mage who moves at all must first spend 1.5 seconds recasting rune of power before opening up with dps, then spend 10 seconds before rotation ramps back up to peak dps output. And while moving, pretty much the only dps output is spamming nether tempest on opponents. This is far less mobile dps than any warlock spec... even post-nerf.
Edited by Mistwynd on 6/18/2013 3:40 PM PDT
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Having played both a mage for 5 years and more recently this lock, this business about scorch versus fel flame is more than mere semantics to me. I only wish that fel flame was as good as scorch.

However it turns out that they are planning to knock down the mana cost here, so that is good news.

As for why this game as opposed to GW2? Mostly the lore here is better and MoP has done a pretty good job telling a story. So I want to see the story through to SoO. GW2 is more of a sheer joy of gameplay thing, where the background is more or less irrelevant (and very shallow.) Pity you can't combine the two games somehow.

This lore thing is the big edge that Blizz has over pretty much everybody else. This is were it pays off being an old and established franchise, they've got a deep bench here storywise that goes all the way back to the original RTS games which I played way back when. I actually care about the silly dragon aspects and Jaina and whatnot, go figure.

Oh, and, Teryaki, I love having you in my fan club, but surely stalking me isn't the most productive use of your time?
Edited by Sybhyl on 6/18/2013 4:57 PM PDT
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90 Troll Warlock
11450
10 seconds of movement sounds nearly-useless for Durumu actually. I would rather have 10 seconds of Wall DPS.
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1 Human Mage
0
The other thing is you're comparing the most mobile mage spec "fire" to what might become the least mobile warlock specs. If you really need mobility for a particular fight wouldn't you just respec to the most mobile warlock spec... just as a mage would have to do?

Disagree.

The whole "respec per fight" concept itself needs to go. It needs to be stamped out in mages, not propagated to the warlock class as well. (/aside, this is also something that needs to be addressed for the mage bombs).

06/18/2013 03:52 PMPosted by Teryaki
Sybhyl, you have produced nothing of value

I'm not so sure. While he did indeed veer very off topic, he did get us to formalize an understanding of mana efficiency for fel flame, to which he himself conceded the point.

06/18/2013 01:23 PMPosted by Sybhyl
The mana is little less tight than I thought

A success, by any definition.

10 seconds of movement sounds nearly-useless for Durumu actually. I would rather have 10 seconds of Wall DPS.

The understanding is that Wall DPS should remain unaffected, but PTR is still very early.

06/18/2013 04:44 PMPosted by Sybhyl
As for why this game as opposed to GW2? Mostly the lore here is better and MoP has done a pretty good job telling a story.

Correct. Many a player I know grew up on Warcraft. Their RTS games were some of the first many of us played, I'm sure.

However I do hope they go in a direction a little more genuine than the "X leader went bad due to 'corruption', kill leader, proceed to phat purpliez" trope that is starting to get qutie overused.
Swtor weaved a better story, imho (though voice talent helps).
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