Open Libram LXXXIII: Man of Living Steel

90 Draenei Paladin
16405
Grogs GL does sound like a jerk so I'll agree with that, after server transferring I would be hella pissed if I wasn't allowed to raid. The calender excuse sounds idiotic.

But I can't support LFR teaching you everything you need to know for Normal. It technically could if you were with a group that performed the mechanics and tried to use them as a learning experience but pug groups don't do that.

It's just a flat zerg all the time.

Even my backwards raid group tries to get people to watch encounter videos before a new fight, I prefer the ones done by Aliena myself.

Title Track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNQ92LdjRaE


Does not belong.

Also you have the wrong Previous Libram linked, it should be this one:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9244645343

You can't just copy/paste everything for a new Libram guys, a couple things do have to be changed manually.
Edited by Cadenbrie on 6/15/2013 12:20 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11665
Ugh libram named after the lamest super hero

Next to captain America of course

You spelled Aquaman wrong.


Aquaman is underrated.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13685
Grogs GL does sound like a jerk so I'll agree with that, after server transferring I would be hella pissed if I wasn't allowed to raid. The calender excuse sounds idiotic.

But I can't support LFR teaching you everything you need to know for Normal. It technically could if you were with a group that performed the mechanics and tried to use them as a learning experience but pug groups don't do that.

It's just a flat zerg all the time.

Even my backwards raid group tries to get people to watch encounter videos before a new fight, I prefer the ones done by Aliena myself.

Title Track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNQ92LdjRaE


Does not belong.

Also you have the wrong Previous Libram linked, it should be this one:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9244645343

You can't just copy/paste everything for a new Libram guys, a couple things do have to be changed manually.


I got the 83rd thing right, at least! =(

...And I kept the title track on purpose, because wow wtf. Should probably change "title track" though.
90 Orc Warrior
16970
LFR can be a great place to practice mechanics. But it's not a great place to learn about them. Most mechanics that are, at most, annoying, on LFR tend to be devastating or outright fatal on normal.


force of will on durumu for instance, and thunderstruck, and lightning whip. i've been healing the last 2 parts on the paladin for a few weeks (yes, traitor i know) and people just stand in these things and expect to be healed up afterwards.

i really wish they left one shot mechanics in lfr, but lowered the overall raid damage so you are not going to rot down to nothing if the healers are not up to par but you will die if you refuse to move out of a mechanic. or maybe stunned you for 15 seconds so you actually lose more damage then you would have if you had moved.

i LIKE lfr on some level, i think its a great addition since the PuG scene of wolk is mostly gone. i like having nice epics for my alts and offspecs and i do think its great if you don't have the time to deal with organized raiding and still want to experience the story. but i still don't understand the entitlement to gear out of it or how people can be so bad. i'm kind of a mediocre player, but even i find stuff in lfr easy.

Aquaman is underrated.


his superpower is that he talks to fish and has a harpoon as a hand.

i think superman is interesting but he lacks the emotional pathos and umph of heroes like batman and the shadow which i think really limits what people can do with him.

has anyone read Red Son? its a really great book that asks what if superman was raised on communist russia instead of the US and i think the superman there has a lot more emotional depth then the mainstream one.
Edited by Vanhi on 6/15/2013 12:52 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
13975
i really wish they left one shot mechanics in lfr, but lowered the overall raid damage so you are not going to rot down to nothing if the healers are not up to par but you will die if you refuse to move out of a mechanic. or maybe stunned you for 15 seconds so you actually lose more damage then you would have if you had moved.


4th boss on MSV, if you stand on fire you die on norm but on LFR you're down to 20% life.
90 Draenei Paladin
16405
On the super hero subject I really don't like most iterations of Superman honestly.

He's too good, too perfect and too powerful. Most pure superman stories have him as being the shining pinnacle that humanity needs to strive for. Even the new movie judging by it's trailers.

He has no growth to do, he's perfect, it's all about the characters around him realizing that he is the real thing and them dealing with that.

That's hard to write around, much easier to work with a flawed and layered character.

I heard a lot of comic book fans hate the DC Animated Universe, Justice League and Justice League Unlimited specifically, because that Super Man wasn't an omni God that could do everything.

He actually needed the rest of the League for help on occasion and evidently that bugged some people. He also wasn't nearly as much of a boyscout as the original either.

Personally that's my favorite incarnation of Sups to date.

Also their Aquaman was a boss.

I got the 83rd thing right, at least! =(


Close isn't good enough! >:(

XD

I kid.

I r Libram creation approvement authoritah. :)
Edited by Cadenbrie on 6/15/2013 1:00 PM PDT
90 Orc Warrior
16970
4th boss on MSV, if you stand on fire you die on norm but on LFR you're down to 20% life.


force of will stuns you and does damage instead of instakilling you and making you un-resable.
thunderstruck tickles.
lighting whip tickles.

probably plenty of others, but those are what i can think of off the top of my head.

i have seen a number of tanks repeatedly knocked off lei shen's platform. and pretty much every lfr they bring down jalak before the dinomancer on the final door is out and you have to contend with jalak, horridon AND a pile of adds beating on you.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11665
People watch kill videos? I can't remember the last time I watched a fight. I'll have to take a look at the Ra-den fight because of the limited attempts thing, but I don't think any fight in ToT is so complicated that you NEED a preview to understand it.

Unless you're trying to do normal+ ToT in full blues, gear isn't much of an obstacle either. I can understand wanting to maximize your raid but this isn't heroic progression we're talking about lol. Your RL sounds like a weird control freak Grog.


A lot of guilds want their new members to watch the fights which does nothing compare to actual attempts.

Grogs GL does sound like a jerk so I'll agree with that, after server transferring I would be hella pissed if I wasn't allowed to raid. The calender excuse sounds idiotic.


Can't be worse than "oh we can't have you tonight, we already have a prot and a hpally" then I found out later that the "prot" pally was actually going as Ret.
90 Draenei Paladin
16405
I think you're suffering from that perspective thing again Lobster.

Your raiders might not need a video to help them but for some of my raiders I'll take every advantage I can cram into them.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10225
I watched videos for all of t14, and I found them pretty helpful (I was able to guide LFR groups through pretty effectively even on my first run - you might be surprised how helpful a decent explanation can be, not everybody listens of course, but the difference between unexplained and explained attempts is dramatic). For t15 I just read the dungeon journal, and still did OK, but mostly because LFR is easy enough that you can get by without really knowing what you're doing the first time.

Watching a video certainly isn't mandatory for doing a fight well, but *some* kind of preparation is very helpful, and having the guild leadership say "watch this video" can be more effective than saying "do your own research on this fight", since it's more specific.
90 Draenei Paladin
17125
Personally that's my favorite incarnation of Sups to date.


Same for me. The cartoon series are probably also some of the most interesting characterizations I've seen of most of the JLA. Flaws and internal conflict makes them interesting. Otherwise, they're just a really boring spin-off of roman/norse pantheons.

Watching a video certainly isn't mandatory for doing a fight well, but *some* kind of preparation is very helpful, and having the guild leadership say "watch this video" can be more effective than saying "do your own research on this fight", since it's more specific.


It's mostly short for "I don't want to spend the next 20 minutes trying to explain the fight, and next 20 wipes explaining why we wiped." And I can't blame raid leaders for that one bit.

That is really crappy to recruit someone and not make sure they know basic administrative stuff like how to sign up for raids and what's expected, though.
Edited by Snozberries on 6/15/2013 1:50 PM PDT
90 Orc Warrior
16970
It's mostly short for "I don't want to spend the next 20 minutes trying to explain the fight, and next 20 wipes explaining why we wiped." And I can't blame raid leaders for that one bit.


the main problem with this is it starting turning into "well Method did this in their video, it must be the only way to do it" and Method/BL/insert top guild's way of doing it might not work for every raid comp.

i'll generally take a glance over kill videos, they are good if you want the basic gist of a fight. but i'm much better at learning by doing, as are a lot of players i think. i have to fail spectacularly at a mechanic once before i can reliably perform it.
Edited by Vanhi on 6/15/2013 1:58 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10200
I have no problem watching videos. I watched every video they had posted and since I'd done all of the fights in LFR I didn't really pick up much. I hadn't done Lei Shen yet in LFR so to be honest the video just made my head hurt.

Since we didn't raid with our guild we ran LFR and I got to see Lei Shen first hand... It was much easier than listening to a guy with an Australian accent blabber on and scribble on a screen. The video gave me some knowledge, but really none of it made sense until I'd seen the fight.

My point. You can watch videos until you're blue in the face, it is not a substitute for getting in there and actually doing the fights. Even if you're just doing the fights in LFR the hands on experience is still good to have. Like training wheels! ^.^

About my gear... I wanted to say something, but Grog told me not to be rude and cause problems so I kept my mouth shut. I have a habit of being blunt and getting myself (and Grog) into trouble. Still, I am really frustrated that he's saying my gear isn't good enough, especially after listening to accounts of people around 490 ilvl going into ToT. >.<
90 Dwarf Paladin
13820
06/15/2013 01:56 PMPosted by Vanhi
the main problem with this is it starting turning into "well Method did this in their video, it must be the only way to do it" and Method/BL/insert top guild's way of doing it might not work for every raid comp.


This is basically my feeling on it. We ran into that a lot in T13, actually - or rather, a variation. We joined a guild late in DS and got into their second team; pretty much all the strats used in Team 2 were carbon-copies of Team 1's strats. But the thing wass that T2 had quite a different comp as we were incredibly melee heavy. Wife and I suggested different strats for certain bosses, based solely on direct experience with the fight in question and the comp (i.e., not on vids or anything), and after wiping for a night on a progression heroic using T1's strat, our strat tailored to our team's comp cleared in like three shots.

It's basically what I preach against all the damned time on these boards - dogmatically slavish adherence to a single acceptable method of doing things, with absolutely no regard to potential alternatives.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10200
Oooh yes... That was the frost wench in DS! They wanted everyone to run around the outside edge and not only was our comp screwed up for that, our team was full of morons. Getting everyone to step into the bubble and call for a dispel was like pulling teeth.

I was so happy when we finally got her down. All thanks to our strategy of leaving healers/ranged in the bubble while the melee ran around the ring killing crystals. (no, I'm not modest at all lol)
90 Blood Elf Paladin
18820
06/15/2013 01:56 PMPosted by Vanhi
the main problem with this is it starting turning into "well Method did this in their video, it must be the only way to do it" and Method/BL/insert top guild's way of doing it might not work for every raid comp.


This is generally why I developed a problem with videos on a strategic sense. Kill video guides are generally made by people who do certain things very easily, make alts for specific comps/OP specs, and make them with the general assumption that the people watching their videos are probably doing the same.

My guild isn't.. and honestly, we hung up on more than a few bosses over the years (as recently as DS heroics) specifically because we were trying to follow published and accepted strats. Ones we were either flat out incapable of doing, ones we really did not have the comp for, or ones we did just not have the throughput for.

One of our big recurring problems following guides is when we use bloodlust, and very frequently we have to use it in different spots in order to push a phase change that we otherwise can't get.

Still, I am really frustrated that he's saying my gear isn't good enough, especially after listening to accounts of people around 490 ilvl going into ToT. >.<


I don't remember exactly what my guild had our first weeks of ToT, but we had exactly two ToES full clears. My ilvl was 495, I had a 496 weapon because it literally dropped the night before ToT opened, and I was the second highest ilvl in our raid group. The only difference between your gear and mine is lack of set bonuses, but with your weapon and the changes since ToT's release I'm positive you're capable of more dps now than I was when we started. I know that we had two people somewhere down in the low-480's and about half our raid group was using upgraded LFR weapons, not even normal weapons.

There's really no reason to say you don't have the gear, especially on a night where the guild is only doing the first half and aren't doing any heroics.
90 Draenei Paladin
16405
You guys are describing all the wrong ways to use videos.

Of course your raid group likely won't be using the exact same strat and of course there's no substitute for actually getting in there and trying it yourself.

Videos are a tool that can be abused just like anything else.

Point is they give some background on the fight and some insight into how it can be executed. That way you don't just go into the fight blind with the raid leader trying to pound everything into your head.

You have some idea of what will be going on and you're more prepared to learn and adapt.

Following a videos recommendations rigidly is stupid, you will have to evolve strats for your raid group that will work for you.

They're just tools, no more helpful or harmful then some of the addons people get all rabid about.

Personally I don't like "Insert Guild killed this" videos either, I watch ones that are specifically made to be guides and usually offer suggestions on varying comps and the like.

Editz:

Read this post Lobs, again you are taking all the bad ways videos are used and not seeing any of the good.

Normal mode guild or not people in my raid groups are told to watch a video when we get to a new fight, In fact if we come to a new fight mid raid night we take a five minute break and have everyone go catch up.

Guide videos, not just watching world first guilds stroke their epeens.

If a person doesn't have the intelligence to take the information in a video and use it to adapt to their own raid groups needs then something is wrong.

Of course following one rigidly is stupid but there is nothing wrong with Guild Leadership asking it's raiders to watch a good video to get things rolling.

06/15/2013 01:26 PMPosted by Snozberries
Flaws and internal conflict makes them interesting.


Yus.

I loved Justice League too pieces for this, it breathed the life into the JL that the 90's Batman cartoon breathed into him.
Edited by Cadenbrie on 6/15/2013 3:42 PM PDT
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