Why bring a Windwalker?

90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
06/16/2013 11:31 PMPosted by Mahourai
Not even close to true, unfortunately. DPS balance comes and goes, but a classes toolkit is the main reason we will recruit someone.


A class's toolkit comes and goes as well, though?


The general concept is still there, or if something is lost it's quite often compensated with something just as powerful, if not more so.

The issue is even if, a toolkit comes and goes, what do you do when there isn't one at all?
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90 Undead Mage
8020
Our WW has been in for every heroic kill and for every progression fight we've been through. They bring utility in certain places such as Heroic Ji Kun he and our shaman were the only viable ones to run and do platforms.

Also ESPECIALLY in a 10 man progression group it is a huge advantage to have a class that can fairly easily switch to tanking with a decent amount of crossover gear. Ideally we would take a 15 or so man raid group to account for days when people can't show up or when the encounter favors a certain composition but that is a little unrealistic outside of the top few guilds around.
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
Also ESPECIALLY in a 10 man progression group it is a huge advantage to have a class that can fairly easily switch to tanking with a decent amount of crossover gear. Ideally we would take a 15 or so man raid group to account for days when people can't show up or when the encounter favors a certain composition but that is a little unrealistic outside of the top few guilds around.


Druids are better for that...Same flexibility plus have tranq+b-res+symbiosis for you (added bonus is they bring the same buffs as monks).
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90 Human Paladin
15835
WW is the highest dps in the game atm.. + nice off healing/talent healing/raidhealing
Edited by Ritalynn on 6/17/2013 9:44 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
WW is the highest dps in the game atm.. + nice off healing/talent healing/raidhealing


you forgot to put /sarcasm
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90 Human Paladin
15835
06/17/2013 09:52 AMPosted by Fayte
WW is the highest dps in the game atm.. + nice off healing/talent healing/raidhealing


you forgot to put /sarcasm


why would i do that.... it's ridiculous the dps WW can pull out.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
06/17/2013 12:41 PMPosted by Ritalynn


you forgot to put /sarcasm


why would i do that.... it's ridiculous the dps WW can pull out.


http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10N/all/14/60/default/

which is relevant to 90% of raiders

or

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/all/14/60/default/

which is relevant to the rest.

Either way WW doesn't look like it'd ever earn a spot based on it's DPS. I guess you could argue the average doesn't use RoRo (or even have it) to its full potential thus losing a lot of dps, but the average is there to represent how most people play it so /shrug.
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90 Troll Warlock
11450
06/16/2013 11:29 PMPosted by Fayte
WW bring Leg Sweep and the ability to switch to a tank/healer, mostly.


lmao only a pure would say this without knowing how retarded an answer this is.

In your zeal to make a personal attack you failed to notice that I was describing what WW brings, not what it should bring.
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85 Human Warlock
13085
why would i do that.... it's ridiculous the dps WW can pull out.


http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10N/all/14/60/default/

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/all/14/60/default/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Throne_of_Thunder/dps/

Not a single windwalker anywhere, 4th bottom DPS. Don't bother linking Simcraft, the Windwalker profile has been poorly written since MoP released and it overvalues the !@#$ out of crit rating.

Assuming equal skill, a Windwalker does middle of the pack dps and brings nothing to the raid. Most classes have 2-3 DPS specs that are better AND they bring a raid CD.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11825
06/17/2013 12:39 PMPosted by Kalorea
You don't raid heroic modes


This would be an embarrassingly bad argument even if it were accurate. It isn't, of course.
Edited by Mahourai on 6/17/2013 3:42 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11805
its obvious why you bring a windwalker, because of the sounds their abilities make.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15610
This would be an embarrassingly bad argument even if it were accurate. It isn't, of course.


I'm pretty sure 3/13H after this long doesn't really count.
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There's pretty much no reason to slot a WW monk in 10 heroics. This should change and change soon.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11825
Since you don't raid for heroic progression you don't seem to know how tight those spots can be.


Your progression in Heroic Goalpost Moving is impressive.

Anyway, most guilds are not heroic progression guilds, and moreover there are a significant plurality of those guilds whose recruitment patterns are not "please apply if you're excellent at your FOTM class" and are currently recruiting WW Monks, Hunters of all stripes, etc. For everyone else (the vast majority of even heroic mode guilds), they're recruiting "the player, not the class."
Edited by Mahourai on 6/17/2013 6:50 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
06/17/2013 06:45 PMPosted by Mahourai
Since you don't raid for heroic progression you don't seem to know how tight those spots can be.


Your progression in Heroic Goalpost Moving is impressive.

Anyway, most guilds are not heroic progression guilds, and moreover there are a significant plurality of those guilds whose recruitment patterns are not "please apply if you're excellent at your FOTM class" and are currently recruiting WW Monks, Hunters of all stripes, etc. For everyone else (the vast majority of even heroic mode guilds), they're recruiting "the player, not the class."


Of the heroic guilds I watch, the 10 mans, I have never seen one looking for a windwalker. They have specific interests for specific classes that will make their progression the smoothest they can possibly make it. High end guilds recruit the player AND the class. This isn't just a discussion on high end guilds, it's the fact that WW has nothing that makes them appealing to bring over another class. Sure you can find a good player on a WW monk, but if they can swap to a rogue? That's even better! They bring higher average dps AND a defensive raid CD.
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90 Undead Priest
13205
Seshel:
There's pretty much no reason to slot a WW monk in 10 heroics. This should change and change soon.


I'd like to think so, they are looking at the healing potential we could bring. They're also reworking AMZ to be consistently good on every fight so they aren't against giving classes raid wide abilities. We'll see.

Mahouri:
Anyway, most guilds are not heroic progression guilds, and moreover there are a significant plurality of those guilds whose recruitment patterns are not "please apply if you're excellent at your FOTM class


WoWprogress makes you list what you're recruiting, any guild with a reasonable chance at clearing a tier will always take any melee in over a Windwalker given the choice.

For example: http://i.imgur.com/Uwy47IA.png

Everyone isn't super best friends that just recruit because someone sure is golly nice, people want to succeed, best of luck at 3/13h when the tier is about to end.
Edited by Facehurt on 6/17/2013 6:59 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
13270
Kryia:
This isn't just a discussion on high end guilds, it's the fact that WW has nothing that makes them appealing to bring over another class. Sure you can find a good player on a WW monk, but if they can swap to a rogue? That's even better! They bring higher average dps AND a defensive raid CD.


Exactly, in the case of "Bring the player, not the class" why not just reroll to make life easier for the raid? This is the druid I'm rerolling to next tier (I begin collecting secrets today). Cya i546 monk, its been real.

I can't even imagine what life would be like for a Windwalker in a 10man guild that wasn't clearing all content, how do they get a raid spot when the warrior is online, or the ret, or the enhance, or the feral, or the DK, or the rogue?
Edited by Meod on 6/17/2013 7:03 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Monk
9225
This thread reminded me why I quit raiding.

However, there is potential in the class, just not this tier. Remember when SPriests were desired solely for dispersion on HBaleroc to push dps a little further on the first crystal? Or who remembers Big Bang on Algalon? There are mechanics that can favor what a windwalker has between diffuse magic and zen meditation.

I just haven't seen such a mechanic yet. Zen Med had some potential, but only works on missles, which is downright useless for 99% of raiding content. Lei Shen static shock soaking has been the only thing I've seen my damage reduction shine on, and that's iffy at best.
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