Why bring a Windwalker?

90 Troll Warlock
11450
I just want to point out that as bad as WW are, the vast majority of 25 man guilds can still use them for progression.

http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/us/illidan/Angry

Our WW was in for every kill but Ji-Kun, where he voluntarily sat to get other players in.
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100 Gnome Monk
12845
06/18/2013 10:18 AMPosted by Xasapis
WW monks are not crap.


No one has said that they are.

06/18/2013 10:18 AMPosted by Xasapis
BM monks are almost in a Godly state.


Debatable and irrelevant.

Don't expect every spec of the class to be the best. if that was the case everyone would re-roll.


True. Unfortunately, you have no one to argue with because no one said that.
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100 Troll Rogue
21800
I just want to point out that as bad as WW are, the vast majority of 25 man guilds can still use them for progression.

Sure but i doubt if you were lacking a WW you would be working hard to recruit one. We've gotten a few WW apps this tier, a couple good, most pretty lackluster but even the good ones always brought up a long discussion of whether not having a WW was a big problem for our roster and the decisions was generally no.

Also while I love 25 man raiding saying WW are ok in 25 man when 25 man raiding is shrinking and WW are decidedly less viable in 10 man isn't really a good answer.
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90 Pandaren Monk
4810
I don't where you have been for the last couple years but no class gets unique raid utility. if your good at playing your class you will get a raid spot if you are bad no buff in utility will get you one.


Its not about being unique, its about bringing anything at all. If you've got two equally geared and skilled players, and one is applying as a Windwalker and one is applying as...well, just about anything else, you take the "anything else".

Now, obviously that's not what happens in reality. What happens in reality is that heroic guilds are looking for utility that becomes part of certain strategies or just provides extra help for the raid, because at that point, unless there's something really wrong with the class you can assume DPS is going to be pretty similar. They just don't have any reason to seek out Windwalkers.
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90 Worgen Warrior
11370
I think WW not being wanted in 10 man is more of a function of the problems with 10 man raiding than anything else. There are 1-2 spots for a melee in a 10 man raiding guild. You're much better off recruiting a couple Rogues to fill those spots than anything else. Now, I do believe a good player of any class can standout and raid with a group but all things are definitely not equal.
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100 Gnome Monk
12845
06/18/2013 12:11 PMPosted by Bladeletters
I think WW not being wanted in 10 man is more of a function of the problems with 10 man raiding than anything else.


I'm thinking that changing the raid landscape is more difficult than providing a reason to bring a WW to a raid. I'd prefer to go the easier route at least for now.
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90 Troll Warlock
11450
I think WW not being wanted in 10 man is more of a function of the problems with 10 man raiding than anything else. There are 1-2 spots for a melee in a 10 man raiding guild. You're much better off recruiting a couple Rogues to fill those spots than anything else. Now, I do believe a good player of any class can standout and raid with a group but all things are definitely not equal.


This is along the lines of what I am thinking. It's extremely hard to balance melee around only having 1-2 of them in a raid.
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100 Gnome Monk
12845
This is along the lines of what I am thinking. It's extremely hard to balance melee around only having 1-2 of them in a raid.


Perhaps, but something being hard doesn't eclipse the necessity of it being done.
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90 Pandaren Monk
4810
I think WW not being wanted in 10 man is more of a function of the problems with 10 man raiding than anything else. There are 1-2 spots for a melee in a 10 man raiding guild. You're much better off recruiting a couple Rogues to fill those spots than anything else. Now, I do believe a good player of any class can standout and raid with a group but all things are definitely not equal.


I was an advocate of the 10s-being-hardcore change at the end of Wrath, but honestly, at this point, I'd prefer to go back to the ICC model (or just have flex and save 10 man as an intro-raid size or something). 10 mans shine a spotlight on so many issues, especially in heroic modes. 25s just work better - easier to carry a bench (and swap them in), buffs aren't a problem, less of a spotlight on utility (or rather, NOT having utility won't cause such a big issue), lots of slots for melee, and you often have one or two other players of your class who you can talk to about any issues. 25 man raids can also just use flex mode if they can't find enough people - at least then you're still getting VP and drops, and you can always go again later in the week once you have enough people because flex won't lock you out.

Windwalkers are fine for DPS, and 25s wouldn't shine such a big spotlight on their major weaknesses.
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90 Human Monk
16870
[quote]
Windwalkers are fine for DPS, and 25s wouldn't shine such a big spotlight on their major weaknesses.


It is safe to say we are MEDIOCRE dps without the rune of reorigination.

Actually I would bet my account on that.

That being said, I get it.. i understand the whine about no utility.. but just imagine you do not have that trinket.. priorities tend to shift.

Monk dps is in bad shape when we rely on 1 trinket for a giant boost in damage.

Now you may say, well what about a weapon hmm? Classes need a weapon, casters need a trinket!

As far as weapons, there are 13 tries for them since each boss can drop one of the "rare" zone drops, and not to mention there are @ least 2 bosses that have melee/range weapons on them. Caster trinkets? There are quite a few of them, and even tho it might not be optimal, getting your BIS is a minor upgrade compared to Rune for Monks.

This thread is mostly about utility, but I had to vent my frustration about bad RNG concerning the trinket and how much of a hit to dps I take for not having one.

I wish somehow Blizzard monk devs could feel my anger.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
I can honestly point out six guilds on my server that are 6/13H+ recruiting a rogue or Enh currently but not one looking for a WW, and not one in question runs a WW (though this is more obvious due to loot conflicts with the class they're actually looking for).

I personally would love to see the ICC model back for raiding. 10's for gearing and for fun while 25's are the actual focus, then again, I just really miss 25's being a regular thing, but they're such a pain to keep together.
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I don't pve any more, but some added utility for rbg groups would be nice as well.
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90 Gnome Monk
7335
Update from my first page post.

Well Sunday we went 9/12. Monday we went 11/12, and the closest we got on Lei Shen was the beginning of the final phase.

Now, it was awesome being able to Zen Mediation one Static shock on me, and being able to Diffuse Magic a 2nd one right afterwards, since my guild prefers to "immunity" the shocks instead of stacking for em because of Diffusion Chain.

That being said, I managed to compromise with my raid group, and now I get to play a rogue instead of a boomkin because a rogue still has more utility than my WW.

I think my guild will notice a difference in our fights once I get my rogue leveled up the rest of the way to 90. (71-84 in about 14-15 hours.) But this difference won't be a positive one. While rogues have smoke bomb to help with group damage reduction, I'm going to lose all the survivability I've had on my monk. I won't have healing orbs I can toss on the ground during Iron Quo while we're running from the wind. I won't be able to Flying Serpent Kick inbetween all the tornadoes. On Dumuru's colored beam phase, the healers will have to heal more because I won't have diffuse magic and touch of Karma.

I feel like I have justification to stay on my monk, because if I can keep myself alive, then the healers can focus on someone else. But, at last no dice.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
Honestly between cloak, feint, and next patch the 5% (glyphed) recup, rogues will probably have the highest raid survivability bar none, especially with warlocks getting a survival nerf or two.

So honestly you'll bring higher dps, a raid CD, and higher survival. Why were windwalkers even added in the first place? Just a filler for a tanking/healing class?
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90 Pandaren Monk
11705
That's too bad Elv, Lei Shen is the one of the fights we do really good on. With our ability to take 2 separate shocks and in the late stages of that fight, our damage raises quite a bit due to the number of sparks.
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100 Orc Death Knight
16175
Barring an overhaul, the most likely change will be stronger raid off heals that do not interrupt their dps flow. Closer to Ele Shaman healing stream totem and Ancestral Guidance than a Feral popping a Tranquility
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90 Pandaren Monk
18100
Barring an overhaul, the most likely change will be stronger raid off heals that do not interrupt their dps flow. Closer to Ele Shaman healing stream totem and Ancestral Guidance than a Feral popping a Tranquility


The WW community has come up with some solid ideas that would help round out the class greatly. Just... well Blizzard lacks communication and just sort of looms over us popping in at random times with (as of late) otter nonsense.

We are getting some healing change I suppose since I remember reading something about it being our niche so to speak. It may be something, but I hope it can at least do something similar to AG in terms of output / short cd.
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100 Human Monk
21765
06/21/2013 06:43 PMPosted by Kallìk
Barring an overhaul, the most likely change will be stronger raid off heals that do not interrupt their dps flow. Closer to Ele Shaman healing stream totem and Ancestral Guidance than a Feral popping a Tranquility


The WW community has come up with some solid ideas that would help round out the class greatly. Just... well Blizzard lacks communication and just sort of looms over us popping in at random times with (as of late) otter nonsense.

We are getting some healing change I suppose since I remember reading something about it being our niche so to speak. It may be something, but I hope it can at least do something similar to AG in terms of output / short cd.


There aren't enough of us picketing and crying on the forums.

Look at the proposed warlock changes to KJC and the immediate revert due to the monsoon of tears.
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90 Pandaren Monk
18100
Well Vex, if I get the signs will you bring the paint? Let's rally a bit for a few changes then I suppose. Such a shame to see such potential in a class go to waste.
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90 Pandaren Monk
4810
There aren't enough of us picketing and crying on the forums.

Look at the proposed warlock changes to KJC and the immediate revert due to the monsoon of tears.


QFT
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